Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[cmboland]

Real McCoy's

Awesome, ive just never seen it abbreviated like that

[itsbenhere]

Random question I got, am I the only one who thinks it's weird when people say "TFH" or "TSG" every time? You're putting a "the" in every single time you mention the brand, which reads horribly to me.

 

It's the same thing as saying "TRMC" because the brand is The Real McCoy's, yet for some reason everyone (for the best) ignores the "the" when referring to the brand in full and in abbreviation form.

[garden gnomes in space]

yea, its weird.  Whats also weird is that three denim retailers (SE, BiG and NoKipple) all measure their jeans differently, notably the thigh.  

[denihilist]

I like adding the "The" to Strike Gold because it further accentuates and awkward brand name but that's just me.

[oomslokop]

i think i'm most fond of (the) rising sun, at least during mike hodis' heydays. how do i know? maybe because i've masochistically put up with their slow and ineffective customer service just to lay my hands on their garment! i got my pike jacket eventually after a year of emailing them. hahaha. but it was all worth it. i love hodis' sly update of what looks on the surface like your run-of-the-(denim)-mill lumberjack-approved repro pieces. the blacksmith jeans for example, when i finally got them in my hands/on my legs, i was surprised to find that the rise wasn't actually that high, the expected diaper butt non-existent, and there was a discreet taper on the legs that made the cut very flattering. then the pike jacket has stitchings that look at first ornamental but on closer look are functional, including the what some would consider as garish chainstitched "souvenir" embroidery on the back. and what i like about their famous outdoor vest is that it manages to retain all the rooms (so many pockets!) and roominess of fit of the traditional hunting vest while still looking slim wearing it. 

 

i guess what all of these add up to is that i could feel the presence of a real, imaginative designer at work behind all the rising sun pieces when mike hodis was still at the helm. i like the feeling of that.

 

blacksmith:

 

 

pike jacket:

 

 

outdoor vest:

 

[Sugar Mountain]

Regarding abbreviation: The Flat Head is the name of the brand and the abbreviation is ''TFH'', as found on their jeans patches. I like that it sounds awkward, just as Denihilist said above.

 

Brand loyalty... I don't stick to one company but I have a pretty clear idea of what works for me in terms of style and cut. That's why I nearly always go for shirts from THE Flat Head because they work for my frame exactly as I want them to. A lot of other shirt maker's products drape weirdly or fit tight across the shoulders and then billow out at the back. Or they're too long. Plus, TFH are supreme in terms of fabrics and finishing. 

 

For jeans, I love my Full Count and Sugar Cane and just need to add Warehouse to the mix and I'm done. Most other brands don't interest me. I'm not into heavyweight denim, slim cuts (or pre-40s repro), nor funky details/fabrics. This is all good because it keeps the wishlist small and I just enjoy what I have - it's a great feeling!

[Iron Horse]

Brand loyalty: I'm a bit loyal to Pherrow's, mostly out of 'nostalgia,' and perhaps against my better judgment at times (hard for me to size their shirts and jackets). They were my first pair of nice, selvedge jeans.

 

I'm happy with everything I have from Toyo/Sugar Cane too.

 

I'll echo the sentiment of love for TFH/FH shirts; almost all my Tees are from them, plus one wabash shirt, and I think I'll keep adding to them in due time.

 

Also, like SM said, eventually adding Warehouse to the mix (1001xx or bust).

Edited November 26, 2015 by Iron Horse

[tigerstrom]

I wouldn't say that I am loyal to one brand but I like the Osaka 5 stuff and want atleast one pair of jeans from each brand (I only got evisu). One reason that I only have one pair of the Osaka 5 is that tcb releases cool stuff so I buy that instead haha.

I've also realised that I don't like too heavy jeans. My 19oz Sammies is in my opinion to warm (even in Sweden). I want my jeans between 12 and 15oz!

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Only speaking for jeans here:

 

I used to focus heavily on one brand at a time. When I started wearing raw denim it was Nudie jeans and I think I owned 4 or 5 of them. Because they fit me good and they were easily available.

 

After getting into Japanese denim I started with DenimJunkie, Denime and Samurai and SDA. But then I only focused on Samurai jeans and bought nearly everything the released (jeans-wise) and seldom bought other brands in that phase (Evisu would be one of them).

 

But my taste changed and the newer releases of Samurai were too crazy or overloaded with quirky details so I went back to more traditional brands. Focusing a bit on Denime as I knew the old ones would be gone for good if I wait too long but although tried out other brands.

 

Nowadays I prefer my Osaka5 and I only need to add a pair of SDA again to complete the selection. Besides the Osaka5 I wear some rarer brands and I prefer to not rely on just one brand but spread my love over many brands. But I still love to wear my Samurai S0500XX and every now and then I put on one of the heavyweight monsters (although I really prefer the 13-15oz range).

 

In hindsight, focusing on Nudie and Samurai was one of my biggest raw denim mistakes: Less Nudie would have meant getting earlier into Japanese brands and buying less Samurai would have allowed me to experience other brands earlier or getting pairs that are now sold out.

[redragon]

If we are talking about brand loyalty as whole (not only denim), i Must confess I am quite a Kapital fanboy. I find their aesthetic & level of creativity really appealing. They don't really care what other company is doing, and just go with their own tangent.

I also do really like their varied produk line, from their core basic denim/workwear to their crazier kountry line (amazing hand distress creation)

Some of their releases will definitely only appeal to very small parts of niche.

[Blue Nemo]

i like them for the very same reasons... couldn't pull them off still.

 

though my century denim is just drying from its latest wash. hope to see something there. maybe wear it again as my denime is too thin for this kinda weather..

[Foxy2]

My brand loyalty covers SDA & Samurai - I review new releases and I track down older pieces.

For FullCount, I love their newer releases.

TFH & RJB - love their standard denims and cuts, as well as TFH denim jackets.

[Bobbo]

So far I've been playing the field quite a bit. Once I got my SDA 101's I realized that I prefer fuller cuts, mid weight denim and the no frills kind a deal. 

 

That realization opened up the gate to TCB and I guess Inoue has secured most of my loyalty compared to other brands. I like that I can support a small (rapidly growing) company, their great quality, that they make everything themselves and also his quirkiness. I'm really looking forward to following and being a part of TCB's development, even more so considering coming onboard from such an early stage.

[Blue Nemo]

i mostly like what Inoue-san is doing, especially his USN seamans jacket! like, not love, adore or whatever.

 

that said, i do absolutely not get the "hype" - although folk as him deserve the support anyway!

[unders]

'Hype' might be overstating it a bit when compared to the attention that Samurai & IH has got over the past few years.

Anyway, I think everyone's agreed that it's exciting that he's making quality product, it's a young business and worthwhile supporting.

Edited November 28, 2015 by unders

[Broark]

Regarding brand loyalty, I don't find myself loyal to any brands really. I like to try a little bit of everything and then figure out what I like or dislike about each respective brand. I think that's why when I first was getting into the denim thing I bought so many pairs just to see what everything is about.

It's more difficult to find a lot of Japanese brands doing shirts that I can make work besides Iron Heart. Which kind of sucks because I really like what some other brands are doing fabric wise. I've been meaning to try out TFH regular cut, I think a regular 44 instead of a slim 46 could work for me, but it's not very easy tracking those down unfortunately.

[Bobbo]

'Hype' might be overstating it a bit when compared to the attention that Samurai & IH has got over the past few years.

 

^This.

 

I think Inoue's strong point as well as Ooe's, Ande Whall's or Roy's is that a small company gives off a more personal feel than bigger companies. Considering how we've constantly been fed in pop culture with rooting for "the little guy" it makes sense that he gets some limelight. 

 

But on the other hand, don't this happen quite often when there's a good one brand contest going on? I'd say the TCB contest also struck right in time now that there's a lot of repro wearers and less superslim modern fits with lots of stacking on the forum. 

[Blue Nemo]

^agree with you latest statement

 

thing is, i am still pretty stoked on what brands such as iron heart, samurai, the fleat  head ;-) do... i know they're big and successful, but they really deserve it, and they are really pushing it!

 

for their latest UHFs iron heart sourced its cotton from peru, where it grew on trees, no chemics, farmed only once a year by hand, haraki san is seriously into sourcing only the best there is!

 

the flat head is producing their hawaii shirts in the same place where the japanese emperor gets his clothes woven & sewn...

 

last year samurai sold jeans consisting of cotton that entirely grew in japan, wtf?

 

 

and that is only one minor example for each brand, there is tons to add!

[Frost]

Fully agreed. I think there are several factors that contribute to the success of TCB and the loyalty the brand experiences from many users around here.

 

1) It's a quality product.

2) You deal with Inoue directly.

3) He makes an afford to accomodate his customers (altering length / making adjustments).

4) He seems to have a pretty specific vision.

5) The brand is quirky (cats!) but not as "in your face" as SDA for example.

6) Customers are regularly featured on his blog, which kinda fosters a "we are in this together" mentality.

 

I'm sure there are several more reasons, but I think these are some that underline why TCB has such a following. I mean, I don't even own any TCB pieces (although I have handled them and they are great), but I still feel extremely sympathetic towards the brand and the TCB threads here are probably the topics I check the most.

 

Back to the topic of brand loyalty:

I wouldn't say I am loyal in the sense that I am exclusively buying ONE brand in particular, but when I have a good experience with a brand I of course lean towards buying from them again.

 

There are a couple of brands though that I really love and from which every release at least peaks my interest or makes me want to throw money after them. These would be PBJ, Eternal, and Tricker's.

[volvo240thebest]

nice bit of talking about TCB lads.

second what Unders Bobbo and Frost said.

must add a few other things that do it for me on top of what others have said.

re his specific vision - I appreciate the fact that Inoue wants to reproduce the good old stuff in what he reckons is the most true way. for example his 60's cut is not as tapered as much as every other 66 cut in the market (except SC66) and that's because the original 501s from the 60's he studied and copied were not so prominently tapered. I think his genuine respect for the art of reproduction very appealing to me, and very Japanese too. Even if I love all the cat themed branding he's now using I also liked a lot his previous runs of 50's and 60's which had no branding at all. My 60's had a blank paper patch.

the second point which makes it for me it's the value for the money, no matter what you get with Inoue it's always a great quality product for a fair price. I'd love to try Ooe's stuff but I don't feel at ease to spend 28k jpy for a pair of jeans. I am sure they're worth it but it's not the right thing for me and my finances!

third point all of his stuff fits great on me!

[Megatron1505]

Great discussion in here, and echoing what Kiya said it is indeed reminiscent of SuFu in days gone by. These types of chats don't occur too often nowadays as there are so many "experts" out there telling people how and what to wear, and how to wash it. Some of those early days magic was created by the fact that nobody really had much of a clue, raw denim (especially Japanese) was kind of esoteric in so much as we had no fit guides, washing instructions or experience of any kind really, and that was a huge part of the fun for me, kind if a journey into the unknown whenever you bought new jeans.

 

On the subject of brands, I'm still a huge fan of Iron Heart, I think that Giles gets the western market and much of his input and work has been to accurately produce wearable, comfortable and durable clothing for big western goons like me who struggle with sizing by brands like Flat Head and Samurai (shirts and jackets I'm referring to). I used to be a huge fan of Samurai too, but they seem to have jumped the shark with some of their recent releases, denims and detailing etc...

 

Aside from those brands I have tried out (with varying degrees of love, frustration and apathy) Oni, SDA, PBJ, LVC, Jelado, Trophy and quite a few micro brands who I took an interest in. I find consistency is lacking in many brands, but that is the nature of small batch manufacturing I guess.

 

As for blunders, well this isn't so much a blunder as a puzzling frustration and it is based on Trophy Clothing. This is a brand who produce (and I say this without a hint of vested interest these days) the most unbelievable quality jeans, shirts and jackets that I have seen made by any brand, anywhere. Their detailing is second to none and everything is comfortable and wearable, I invested much time, work and faith into getting that brand into the international market and it never really worked out (or hasn't yet), which honestly puzzles me when I see some of the brands and items that get so much love in the same price park as Trophy, which (honestly), are nowhere near as good. I finally put it down to the fact that maybe I don't know the denim scene as well as I thought I did.

 

To tread on even shakier ground, I think the denim market for many great retailers is suffering due to sites like Denimio who sell many Japanese brands for close to Japanese retail prices. Western retailers just cannot match that as many Japanese brands demand a higher wholesale price from foreign retailers than they do domestic, add shipping and import taxes and retailers are taking a beating. I can only hope that the great customer service, exclusive items and loyalty keep helping retailers to flourish as (trust me), without them the denim scene would suck.

[Megatron1505]

Also, just to add a point on Iron Heart. The statement that they are not seen as a denim brand in Japan and not sold with all the other well known brands is less true than it used to be, Haraki has always kept a close eye on his retail partners and Iron Heart were definitely seen as a biker brand up until the last couple of years, but recent domestic collaborations with brands like Jelado, plus domestically retailing a wider range of cuts and denims has slightly changed that perspective.

[cmboland]

Great discussion in here, and echoing what Kiya said it is indeed reminiscent of SuFu in days gone by. These types of chats don't occur too often nowadays as there are so many "experts" out there telling people how and what to wear, and how to wash it. Some of those early days magic was created by the fact that nobody really had much of a clue, raw denim (especially Japanese) was kind of esoteric in so much as we had no fit guides, washing instructions or experience of any kind really, and that was a huge part of the fun for me, kind if a journey into the unknown whenever you bought new jeans.

On the subject of brands, I'm still a huge fan of Iron Heart, I think that Giles gets the western market and much of his input and work has been to accurately produce wearable, comfortable and durable clothing for big western goons like me who struggle with sizing by brands like Flat Head and Samurai (shirts and jackets I'm referring to). I used to be a huge fan of Samurai too, but they seem to have jumped the shark with some of their recent releases, denims and detailing etc...

Aside from those brands I have tried out (with varying degrees of love, frustration and apathy) Oni, SDA, PBJ, LVC, Jelado, Trophy and quite a few micro brands who I took an interest in. I find consistency is lacking in many brands, but that is the nature of small batch manufacturing I guess.

As for blunders, well this isn't so much a blunder as a puzzling frustration and it is based on Trophy Clothing. This is a brand who produce (and I say this without a hint of vested interest these days) the most unbelievable quality jeans, shirts and jackets that I have seen made by any brand, anywhere. Their detailing is second to none and everything is comfortable and wearable, I invested much time, work and faith into getting that brand into the international market and it never really worked out (or hasn't yet), which honestly puzzles me when I see some of the brands and items that get so much love in the same price park as Trophy, which (honestly), are nowhere near as good. I finally put it down to the fact that maybe I don't know the denim scene as well as I thought I did.

To tread on even shakier ground, I think the denim market for many great retailers is suffering due to sites like Denimio who sell many Japanese brands for close to Japanese retail prices. Western retailers just cannot match that as many Japanese brands demand a higher wholesale price from foreign retailers than they do domestic, add shipping and import taxes and retailers are taking a beating. I can only hope that the great customer service, exclusive items and loyalty keep helping retailers to flourish as (trust me), without them the denim scene would suck.

Unfortunately, (fortunately) I am someone who has purchased from both Japanese and non Japanese retailers. When it comes to collaborations, I will gladly pay an extra premium to have a store exclusive run. For example, the self edge x flat head or self edge x iron heart jeans are wonderful and demonstrate a strong brand / retailer relationship. Now, I'm not working in the industry and cannot comment on the true effects of companies like denimio's globalization of lower priced raw denim but as a consumer, it's nice to see more options for others to get into raw denim easier. What bothers me most is when I see the advice to go into a retailer such as self edge, try on a pair and even get sizing advice from the staff. Then, leave the store and order direct from Japan. That's the biggest kick in the balls you could possibly muster up

[Megatron1505]

Anyone giving that advice deserves to be kicked in the balls.

[unders]

Hey Mega, great bit of insight into Trophy and good to hear someone's views who's handled the product. I've been interested in their dirt denim for a while - for a starter the patch looks awesome I've always assumed Trophy is mainly a motorcycle brand in the East - is that right?

[Megatron1505]

Trophy are a clothing brand entirely, very small batch manufacturing, I have some amazing pics of their production process which I'll post if I can find them. The brand owner (Egawa-San) is a complete nerd on Indian Motorcycles and bass guitars, so there is a definite influence on his designs, but he's a trained designer not a biker who who happens to make clothes, same as Haraki at Iron Heart who was a senior pattern maker for Edwin for many years before starting Iron Heart.

 

What size are you man, I might be able to hook you up with some Dirt Denim to try out.

[Megatron1505]

On the subject of international retail, I have a pair of 25oz anniversary edition Samurai for sale on eBay for £175 in fantastic condition. They have a best offer set to accept £150 and a guy dropped me an offer of £120, which I declined.

 

The guy then messaged me with a perfectly reasonable question, which got me thinking, he said "Samurai are selling these new for £162 so why is £120 not a reasonable offer?". Nothing wrong with that question.

 

I responded by telling him that BiG sell them at $400+, Son of Stag sell them for £425+ and the only other pair listed on eBay was for $650 (clearly ridiculous). I also told him that the Samurai price is great, and he should probably buy them for that price, my price is reflective of my investment in the jeans, and how much I value them at, if he disagrees then they are probably not the jeans for him. Just another example of how the ease of purchasing from Japan can also effect the used market too.

[Broark]

Having worked in retail I can say that show-rooming happens all the time. Even outside the denim scene, big retailers like Amazon can manage to make prices lower and a lot of people will try to find the item online right in front of you. I had a girl try on some sunglasses once, whip out her phone and say "well I found them on Amazon for 40 dollars cheaper, so I think I'll get them from there, thanks!" 

Luckily it's repeat customers who understand the role that smaller retailers play and come back for the personalized touch.

And that's why I don't mind whatever "premium" there is, because I know I could reach out to Kiya or Tyler or any of the Self Edge guys and they'd help me out and make sure I ended up with the right thing for me.

[goodrain]

got the Trophy duck jacket and storm vest from Mega two winters ago and they are two of the best pieces that I own. It is hard to believe that they are not more popular.

[Megatron1505]

It's all about being value added in direct retail, and your post perfectly sums up the value that retailers add to buying anything really.