Levi's Vintage Clothing

[Foxy2]

agree - given their track record of handling own production, their sales figures of the past decades and being accountable to shareholders I highly doubt that.

besides, their LVC business and the portion of the standrard range using Cone exclusively might be insignificantly small...

Edited October 19, 2017 by Foxy2

[Paul T]

It was Kaihara who made the denim for the very first Levi's vintage repros, from Levi's Japan I think, and as folk here will know they've made just about all the Sanforized fabric. Kurabo also made a lot of the earlier pre-1922 fabric before Levi's researched the earlier fabrics with Cone.

Yes, as others have said, Cone's heritage was a key reason to buy LVC, after they closed Valencia Street.

 Levi's are actually experiencing quite a boom in the US; the new people have really turned the business around. But I don't think they'd risk that for their little boutique range.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Paul T

[bartlebyyphonics]

very very sad news

only japanese selvedge denim from now on?

that is simulacral meets postmodern / postfordist economics to the max

been wearing the lvc 44 with postoveralls ok43 to do my own comparative study of cone vs japanese denim and the difference is significant

will be buying up lvc asap

(propellerbeanie's sale splurge on 50s seems well timed now!)

this feels more significant than the closure of valencia st factory

[Paul T]

You're right. It is more significant.

I was just thinking of the bolts of fabric I have, some 1920s and the indigo duck. Too rare and precious to use now.

 

[Maynard Friedman]

Time to buy those 'magnadraft' 66s that have been lurking at the back of my mind for some time methinks.

[Niro]

Yup, i'm gonna be getting myself a pair of 66 501s. Not gonna wait for a sale, just in case what i want is not available when sales come round

[Paul T]

(double post)

Edited October 19, 2017 by Paul T
double post

[oomslokop]

for some serendipitous reasons, though i always say cone fabrics are boring, i own more of them than other superdenimbro fabrics:

- 12 oz supposedly NOS cone denim on my MF54

- cone indigo duck on my Rising Sun outdoor vest

- 13ish oz cone denim on my Rising Sun Blacksmith

and all of them are actually really nice, especially after a wash.

[bartlebyyphonics]

^^^

exactly: they are more like a slow cooked thing rather than radically quick flash fry...

first impressions are that they are flat; but then their potential is a slow unravelling

[i might have to start on the dan / benefits of banality pontification again...]

and whilst I wouldn't choose cone over japanese denim, they feel like a core textile fade / palette to have access to...

[im a gonna have to hurry up and get me those 1915s]

Edited October 19, 2017 by bartlebyyphonics

[erk]

I love the cone fabrics. All I have left from my LVC purge is a pair of 1955s that are too big for me that my dad is wearing now. I swore off LVC after A pair of 44s.  they keep trying to pull me back in with their cone denim but those prices are just so crazy. Also been outta the game too long to know what’s going on with the sizing - otherwise I’d be interested in another pair of 55s or 66.

I’m gonna hold out hope for a miracle for those looms and operators. It does seem like this could be an opportunity to maintain a boutique line of fabrics. Maybe the cost to do so even at a smaller scale is just impossible. 

[jeffrx]

Sad and the end of an era. Cone denim was iconic, but it's hard to compete with mainstream cost-cutting measures.  Hold on to your cone denim, because you're the last of a dying breed. 

[free2hear]

Loss of jobs, knowledge, history and exclusive and exquisite fabrics. Definitely some sad sh*t. 

[Inimitable N!]

-reposted from DB-

shamefully it's indicative of an ever increasing corporate desire for money. generally these "acquisition clubs" see what the business looks like on paper and figure that they know best about how to streamline the process and drive more profits. I doubt that when Platinum Equity had any clue about Cone Mills' White Oak plant when they acquired International Textile Group but when you look at Cone in Mexico and China they're not making selvedge and they're surely creating more profit based on what we know about the denim industry. Platinum's business is to generate more capital and they're going through the process of lightening up their portfolio in order to do so. I doubt they even give a damn about the significance of White Oak historically or otherwise, it's a numbers game. Potentially they could be trying to shift selvedge production to either of the other two plants simply because it would be less expensive, but without any real facts other than what's already out there we just don't know.

the whole thing just reeks of the resurgence of "Gordon Gecko, greed is good" American profiteering. if you force the masses into near poverty, so much so that they believe that $20 is expensive for a pair of jeans at any discount retailer, it's no wonder that a plant manufacturing higher quality materials that are used in a higher priced (albeit longer lasting) product is seen as being "not profitable".

I'm just sickened by the whole thing, not just because it hits close to home but because the historical relevance of something uniquely American just seems to be brushed aside in lieu of bigger numbers in someone's book.

[mlwdp]

There's only one retailer in Greensboro that carries LVC, so there's that.  

[Iron Horse]

Was the LVC 33 made with White Oak denim? Sites say "Cone" only but I know they have other plants.

[propellerbeanie]

6 hours ago, Iron Horse said:

Was the LVC 33 made with White Oak denim? Sites say "Cone" only but I know they have other plants.

I don't have a source on hand, but I've read in the past that only the White Oak plant utilises narrow looms to make selvedge denim. Maybe @Paul T will be able to confirm this as he's been to the mill before. I'm unsure if Cone Mexico and Cone China make selvedge denim, but maybe I've been misinformed all along (hopefully not).

In the following video, if you skip to around 2:25, you'll hear the gentleman mention making denim for LVC in the beginning, and I'm assuming that has continued to present day for the rigid LVC 501 models. Would love to have had a flick through the book of fabrics that's in the video.

It's quite upsetting watching the 501 video when you hear how long some of the people have been working there. For me, the history really makes White Oak denim something special.

 

[Paul T]

Yes, the 1933 is Cone. Nearly everything is now. And no, they don't make the LVC fabric in any place other than Greensboro.

 

[Niro]

12 hours ago, Inimitable N! said:

-reposted from DB-

shamefully it's indicative of an ever increasing corporate desire for money. generally these "acquisition clubs" see what the business looks like on paper and figure that they know best about how to streamline the process and drive more profits. I doubt that when Platinum Equity had any clue about Cone Mills' White Oak plant when they acquired International Textile Group but when you look at Cone in Mexico and China they're not making selvedge and they're surely creating more profit based on what we know about the denim industry. Platinum's business is to generate more capital and they're going through the process of lightening up their portfolio in order to do so. I doubt they even give a damn about the significance of White Oak historically or otherwise, it's a numbers game. Potentially they could be trying to shift selvedge production to either of the other two plants simply because it would be less expensive, but without any real facts other than what's already out there we just don't know.

the whole thing just reeks of the resurgence of "Gordon Gecko, greed is good" American profiteering. if you force the masses into near poverty, so much so that they believe that $20 is expensive for a pair of jeans at any discount retailer, it's no wonder that a plant manufacturing higher quality materials that are used in a higher priced (albeit longer lasting) product is seen as being "not profitable".

I'm just sickened by the whole thing, not just because it hits close to home but because the historical relevance of something uniquely American just seems to be brushed aside in lieu of bigger numbers in someone's book.

Just another sad example of extreme american capitalism

[Foxy2]

People not earning fair money and not spending fair money on consumption does lead to a dark place...

on a different note - maybe we will now see Japanese companies buying Draper looms, shipping them home to really make Japanese selvedge denim on old American looms?

Edited October 20, 2017 by Foxy2

[Paul T]

6 minutes ago, Foxy2 said:

People not earning fair money and not spending fair money on consumption does lead to a dark place...

on a different note - maybe we will now see Japanese companies buying Draper looms, shipping them home to really make Japanese selvedge denim on old American looms?

Interesting possibility, real life imitating the myth. There are a huge number of Toyoda looms still in Japan though, so it might not be cost-effective considering the shipping.

Those looms are in demand for weaving carbon fibre for use in the aerospace industry, too. 

[lance]

^ ^^ two interesting thoughts

[bartlebyyphonics]

4 hours ago, Foxy2 said:

People not earning fair money and not spending fair money on consumption does lead to a dark place...

the most absolute truth

Edited October 20, 2017 by bartlebyyphonics

[LQW]

I've never researched LVC (with a buyer's mindset) but it sounds like its now or never for a pair with Cone denim. What's a fair price (for White Oak Cone)? It sounds like a lot of LVC advertises Cone denim but it isn't White Oak.

[Niro]

Got 10% off with levis, so bought a pair of 1976 501s. Been on my list for a long while to get a pair of cone denim levis, and with the news of it closing, now was the time to pull the trigger. My first (and maybe only) pair of jeans in cone denim, so quite excited by them. I have a feeling to get a pair of 1966 501, as part of the collection.

It's the 'cleanest' denim I own now, as in no slub, no nep, not hairy. I guess this is why people have commented that cone denim is boring? It may not have the 'character' of Japanese denim, but I like it.

When I was growing up, my dad and uncle used to talk up how Levis 501 were THE jeans to have. In my teens, I owned a few pair of Levis 501s (the mass produced shite). These may not be a vintage pair of Levis 501, but they are the closest i'll get, and I am very happy to own a pair.

[propellerbeanie]

Nice purchase. A bit harsh to say it's boring though... The '76s develop subtle vertical fades with wear, and in terms of the hairiness, it gets better after a wash. If you look at @Broark's post here, I think it's definitely hairy enough to counter the "not hairy" part. Maybe I'm just a Cone defender, but hopefully it works out well for you! =)

[kicks79]

Agree with @propellerbeanie After a hot soak it seems to bring the hairiness out.

im trying to decide wether to double down on the 76s after news of cone mills. Not sure if the wallet or girlfriend would like that though  

Edited October 21, 2017 by kicks79

[Paul T]

Cone denim is simply a different philosophy from some Japanese denim - not all by any means, some SDA denim is very similar. It has much more subtle slubbing - rather than exaggerated.

[Niro]

6 hours ago, propellerbeanie said:

Nice purchase. A bit harsh to say it's boring though... The '76s develop subtle vertical fades with wear, and in terms of the hairiness, it gets better after a wash. If you look at @Broark's post here, I think it's definitely hairy enough to counter the "not hairy" part. Maybe I'm just a Cone defender, but hopefully it works out well for you! =)

I don't think it's boring denim, it's different to denim I have previously handled, and I like it. I was mentioning that i've read comments of people calling cone denim boring, and I was thinking maybe that was why people thought that.

My pair is nowhere as hairy as Broarks pair was pre wash. I'm looking forward to giving them a wash at some point.

I am very glad to have got a pair, and experience cone denim levis for myself. Maybe one day, some Japanese will be trying to recreate this denim

 

[bartlebyyphonics]

6 hours ago, Paul T said:

Cone denim is simply a different philosophy from some Japanese denim - not all by any means, some SDA denim is very similar. It has much more subtle slubbing - rather than exaggerated.

 

3 hours ago, Niro said:

I don't think it's boring denim, it's different to denim I have previously handled, and I like it. I was mentioning that i've read comments of people calling cone denim boring, and I was thinking maybe that was why people thought that.

My pair is nowhere as hairy as Broarks pair was pre wash. I'm looking forward to giving them a wash at some point.

I am very glad to have got a pair, and experience cone denim levis for myself. Maybe one day, some Japanese will be trying to recreate this denim

 

the results of my highly un-scientific experiment working on differences in denim

bought the lvc 44 and the post-overalls jacket model ok-43 at similar time (around late june early july) and tried to wear together as 40s-sh 'tuta' - both as utility suit, but also to try to keep wear to around the same

lvc item is cone, the post-overalls japanese denim (mill info not provided, so again highly unspecific and un-useful contrast, but hey-ho)

(have had to wash the jacket maybe once more, as wear it more like a shirt that a jacket, so obviously it has faded more)

first image is them when first purchased, early july: the post overalls is bluer, the lvc greyer

the second image is from yesterday: after a good few months wear (not everyday by any means... maybe 2 washes for the jeans, and 3 for the jacket)

[both images taken under same-ish light conditions of artificial light]

the third image is also yesterday [out of focus - apologies] - jacket cuff and coin pocket as places where wear is clearly making pattern

cone is clearly the slow unfolded in terms of color. definitely less hairy, fluffy, showy when first worn... but less drama-queen in terms contrast and pucker...

 

 

[bartlebyyphonics]

and then some more details [mostly natural light to show blue emergence], mostly of the lvc '44 with its ripples and rust, but sneaking in a pocket shot of the p-alls as I like em so much (the drama of the denim works with the extremely pared down nature of the garment - with its non-contrast black stitching and reduced number of pockets / it has two rather than four / so the fades reveal construction nicely)

[i can be seen prancing extensively in the two garments on 638 of this thread to get sense of fit... a slight spam of the thread then, and slight spam of thread now, so apologies for image dump...]