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Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

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I prefer to keep hiking them up because they look and feel better in the right place. But it is a pain. I'm really liking the SC 47 at the moment because the waist is pinched in a lot after a fairly wide hip, which makes them comfortable and (at the moment at least) keeps them where they should be.

What I find odd is that if you look at pictures from the 40s and 50s (e.g. rivet_head_com on IG) almost everyone has their jeans (with a fairly high to very high rise) sitting in the right place, in most cases without a belt. I guess it could be selection bias, with all the sagged jeans failing to fit the aesthetic criteria of today's photographic "curators", but it doesn't seem likely.

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^ I think it was almost everyone - it was the height of fashion back then.

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I'm not going to rise to that one.

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The best way (yet impractical for most) to keep high rise pants up would be braces/suspenders. Either way, I much rather pulling up my pants once in a while over the constant adjusting and suffocation I experience with low/mid rises. And I very much agree with what broark wrote. It’s the general extra room that makes the difference. Depending on your body type you can try to size down next time, might help. 

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Of interest to me as well @Maynard Friedman. Thanks for posting!

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I like that too. Nice one Maynard. Looking forward to watching 'A Film About Studio Electrophonique'

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Posted (edited)

Nice one Martin, i'll have a read of that later.. It was Sheff DocFest last week, i bet that's where they premiered it

edit- yup it does say so :D

Edited by Double 0 Soul

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Instagram has gone down the toilet with their suggested posts and ads.  Very annoying.

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Sorry dude, ment to agree with you :huh2:

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I'm starting to feel that a lot of the raw denim world is minute variations on the same thing. For instance, Full Count, Warehouse, Ooe, Freewheelers, TCB, Real McCoys, CSF, etc. all seem incredibly similar to me in terms of ethos/fabric/fading/etc. I love my Warehouse 1001xx and 800xx jeans but I don't feel that a pair by any of those other brands I mentioned there is different enough to even remotely justify buying a pair of those, at least not until the aforementioned jeans are in tatters, which isn't happening any time soon. They're all just minor variations on basically the same thing. Unless you don't own any jeans like that and want one, it just seems like comparisons are sort of a waste of time.

But it's largely the same thing with the more "aggressive" brands too. PBJ, Samurai, Iron Heart, Oni, etc. all have their 21 oz super sandpapery heavyweight hardcore Reddit denim, which I guess is cool, but I really think that if you've worn one, you've worn them all. My Samurai S3000vx are great for when I want a more aggressive, less traditional pair. Why do I need more? Those other brands are basically all just offering the same thing. Sure there are legitimately interesting and distinct fabrics like the Sugar Cane Okinawa denim, Flat Head's Pioneer and LHT denim, etc, but what's hilarious to me is that these are fabrics from ages ago and hardly anyone has done anything especially interesting that's not just some variation on the Ultra Slubz H4rdcore Reddit Denim theme, or otherwise cartoonishly weird.

I think it's good that we have options of what to buy, my point is more that it's getting increasingly hard to sustain any interest in the denim world beyond the couple of pairs I'm wearing because it feels like the jeans people get all excited about... are barely different from what I am already wearing. I'm not surprised at all that Japanese brands are struggling to stay alive because really, how many different slight variations on mid-century 501s do we really need? What does Brand X offer that, say, Warehouse isn't already doing? On the flip side, this is why I respect Denim Bridge, who are genuinely trying to do something a little different without getting all silly.

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^ That is exactly why forums like this exist, for us denim nerds to obsess over specific details, subtle differences and minor variations! 

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11 years on the forum and you're just starting to feel this.....

Wether it's repro/traditional pairs or the left field fabrics of PBJ or even kapital, aren't they all just different versions of the same thing. 

Isn't that the point. 

Isn't that what makes us the geeks that we are.

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31 minutes ago, Cold Summer said:

how many different slight variations on mid-century 501s do we really need?

More than we have, always

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I for one think the offerings are patchy and won’t be satisfied until we have a repro of each and every year between 1873 and 1979.

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There are a number of variations, like BlueBlanket Jeans or Indigofera and many others.
It's interesting, how one can change taste, i.e. looking for something extraordinary- neppy, slubby or miner's style and then the taste changes again to the more subtle repro designs. At least I had these phases :-)


There's still the search for the elusive perfect fit, etc., buying and selling, streamlining the jeans collection, admiring nicely worn jeans, whether vintage or contrast fades and developing an eye for the little details: historical accuracies, specialy nice buttons, rivets, etc..

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Geeman said:

11 years on the forum and you're just starting to feel this.....

Wether it's repro/traditional pairs or the left field fabrics of PBJ or even kapital, aren't they all just different versions of the same thing. 

I don't think they really are. I mean heck even Kapital's wacky kakishibu denim is really cool. It's not something I'd probably ever wear, but I like seeing people pull it off. 

When I was getting into all this stuff from 2010-2012 or so, it felt like there was a lot of variety. A Samurai S710xx was totally different from a Sugar Cane Okinawa, a Flat Head 3001, a PBJ XX-007, or something from SDA, Warehouse, etc. The fits, fabric, details, all of it was really different from one to the next. Now it all just feel same-y. This is probably my subjective impression as much as anything else but I guess my point is that it doesn't seem like there's a lot going on in the denim world to keep it fresh or compelling for me, and I honestly have a more interesting experience reading old discussions from a decade ago.

Today, everything is polarized into 29 oz hyper-slub tennis ball green weft giga-tapered Reddit jeans or A New August 1949 501XX Repro That's 0.2% Different From This Other Brand's Version. It felt like the community (and brands) used to be somewhere between these two extremes. I'm sure somebody could write a fascinating anthropological exposition of how/why this sort of thing happens.

As it is, if it seems like I haven't been around much, it's because I log in, see that there's been no discussion about the brands I like, briefly look for fade pictures and feel a twinge of disappointment, rinse, lather, repeat for the next several months, until it's time to post updates on what I'm wearing I guess. I still like wearing my jeans/other clothing I enjoy, but I guess my motivation to be involved in the community isn't all that high anymore.

Edited by Cold Summer

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Check out this bit o'good fortune.. my mrs gave me a ring from Marks & Sparks on Sunday (don't even fucking start @Geeman) saying they had shit loads of cheap beer, all the boxes were battered but the cans were good (albeit dinted) and only 10p each.

"do you want me to get you 4x cans?"

"Ffs! 10p each get them all"

"I can't carry them but i've got 2x tote bags which i can fill with beer if you'll come pick me up in the car"

I thought it was going to be some cheap swill but no... I've got 22x cans of Camden and 2x cans of Vocation for less than £3 :)

fullsizeoutput_355a.thumb.jpeg.03e0f70f14f6044ad6725452cc9323ca.jpeg

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And some nice pickles too. 

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15 hours ago, Cold Summer said:

I don't think they really are. I mean heck even Kapital's wacky kakishibu denim is really cool. It's not something I'd probably ever wear, but I like seeing people pull it off. 

When I was getting into all this stuff from 2010-2012 or so, it felt like there was a lot of variety. A Samurai S710xx was totally different from a Sugar Cane Okinawa, a Flat Head 3001, a PBJ XX-007, or something from SDA, Warehouse, etc. The fits, fabric, details, all of it was really different from one to the next. Now it all just feel same-y. This is probably my subjective impression as much as anything else but I guess my point is that it doesn't seem like there's a lot going on in the denim world to keep it fresh or compelling for me, and I honestly have a more interesting experience reading old discussions from a decade ago.

Today, everything is polarized into 29 oz hyper-slub tennis ball green weft giga-tapered Reddit jeans or A New August 1949 501XX Repro That's 0.2% Different From This Other Brand's Version. It felt like the community (and brands) used to be somewhere between these two extremes. I'm sure somebody could write a fascinating anthropological exposition of how/why this sort of thing happens.

As it is, if it seems like I haven't been around much, it's because I log in, see that there's been no discussion about the brands I like, briefly look for fade pictures and feel a twinge of disappointment, rinse, lather, repeat for the next several months, until it's time to post updates on what I'm wearing I guess. I still like wearing my jeans/other clothing I enjoy, but I guess my motivation to be involved in the community isn't all that high anymore.

It sounds to me like you just sort of exhausted your knowledge of the industry to a certain point, which can take a little bit I guess - and beyond that don't want/need anything new, and so using this forum for that purpose (which is quite common), is not germane.  But someone learning about it now (with a genuine interest) is going to have the experience you had ten years ago. In the end, all of us will just be left with jeans to wear - that takes a long time. I would think it perfectly normal to pop in once a year to share some progress pics and that's it, for instance, if you're just working on one pair living life. 

But forums like this (even a mostly zombie forum like this one) do indeed exist for people to obsess over details - the things that you think don't materially differentiate one model from another very well may to another. For instance, the measurements of a lot of these brands you mention differ enough for some people that it really is a different thing with different fit. Go into any hobby gathering and that's what you see though - discussion around the margins. My work is in the photo industry and when  I was on forums before - when it was strictly a hobby for me - people would argue about things that 99.9% of viewers would never see (or care about) in how a camera, lens, or film stock does x or y, and more importantly, most often did not affect what made the picture successful. It was almost entirely missing the forest for the trees but that's what got them (and sometimes myself) going. 

One thing though - the idea that the denim world needs to stay fresh seems sort of....antithetical to it all. Jeans are not fresh and have not been for over 100 years, and if you like the repro stuff this especially applies. I say just wear your jeans and get on with your life, check in if you like how they look this time next year. 

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Cold Summer, if you're interested in something different than minor variations on the same repro denim themes, you might be interested in the work that Mohsin Sajid is doing at Endrime.  I attended his presentation last night at Standard & Strange in Oakland and he covered topics ranging from denim history to the future of denim, including non-cotton materials (e.g., hemp, tencel), (almost) zero waste pattern cutting, non-cotton/non-poly threads, etc.  Mohsin is a consultant to Cone, among others, and also designs jeans, jackets, and other clothing.

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@Cold Summer There are quite a few other brands that do repro or repro interpretations that are very different than the ones you mentioned (mister freedom, black sign, belafonte and motor come to mind). Other than that I think it’s completely natural to get complacent about a topic of interest for some time. 

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Posted (edited)

So, what did my shorts do today?

Well as your asking, I'll tell you and then maybe you'll be able to assist me.

These are my current work shorts. Our uniform at work is supposed to (currently) be black trousers or shorts. I wear shorts mostly anyway between May and September so getting a solid pair of work shorts is a must for me.

The work budget we are given for both trousers and shorts is 50 quid. These items have to last 2 years at least - so on to ebay - the trousers were Helly Hansen at 29.99 (like the pair l had before so l know how they size/wear) - which left me 20 quid for shorts.  Didn't want to risk online shorts shopping as they just have to sit right, plus l can't handle returns so..

Shopping around Stroud, the small Cotswold town l live in is limiting for someone with such steez ;)  .. so after visiting everywhere, l threw the last roll of the dice and dodged into the local sports place and saw these on the rail. Firetrap black shorts, £44 down to £22 - Perfect.

But the trouble is that l've only owned/worn them for 5 weeks and only washed them once.  They look like a year old at least!

I'll have to overdye in the WM as usual but a fiver is worth it for a watch them fade all over again.

My boss isn't happy as he wants our uniforms to all look new and shiny and identical. And to stay black.

I like wear/patina so always look for black stuff that has fade to red/brown possibilities :D

This got me thinking, l wonder what brands that we discuss here would have trousers or shorts that start off black, but with a liitle work can look 'vintage'?

Good pocket depth is a must.

TIA

 

20220715_142550.jpg

20220715_142619.jpg

 

 

Edited by Dr_Heech

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^ interesting.. I have a pair of navy Carhartt shorts (can't remember the model) that started out looking fairly sharp, but then looked much those after a wash or two. Mrs Mondo asked "What happened to those *nice* shorts you had..?".. erm, yes, well "These are them". Polo RL in dark colours offer the same "feature", though I find the lighter tan or khaki-ish ones retain their colour quite well. Like @Dr_Heech, all my shorts are sourced as far away from retail as possible.. effects pedals aren't gonna buy themselves..

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Haha, I’m so anal - apart from anything denim or indigo-dyed cotton (t-shirts, shirts, etc), I don’t want anything I own to fade or wear at all, but stay looking brand new! That’s why I rarely buy black clothing as I don’t dig the (Visage) fade to grey look :rolleyes:

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Maynard Friedman said:

Haha, I’m so anal - apart from anything denim or indigo-dyed cotton (t-shirts, shirts, etc), I don’t want anything I own to fade or wear at all, but stay looking brand new! That’s why I rarely buy black clothing as I don’t dig the (Visage) fade to grey look :rolleyes:

Apart from my denims and some jackets, l also like my non work clothing to stay fairly fresh looking, you know in case l ever go out socially. Which is once or twice a year nowadays :laugh:

Years ago l bought two, very hard to find at the time, navy blue cushman sweats from ebay (for a steal l might add), as my uniform at work used to be all navy.

The intention was to get the club emblems stitched on and wear 'under the radar' so to speak so l'd have some awesome fadez. One divorce later, the sweats never got worn with emblems, one l wore and still have and the other l sold on to pay rent or bills 

You work in an office Martin which unfortunately looks down on colleagues wearing work clothing which is not always sharp looking. Dress to impress?

No chance of wearing dark and crispy (slightly tapered :P) non-arc/tab jeans or would that be a no no?

 

Edited by Dr_Heech

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59 minutes ago, mondo said:

..

 Like @Dr_Heech, all my shorts are sourced as far away from retail as possible.. effects pedals aren't gonna buy themselves..

Sorry mate l'm having a blonde moment, can you explain?

 

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Charlie, my office attire is wear whatever you want - shorts, tatty jeans, trainers, work boots, man buns, suit, chinos - all very informal, or formal if that’s your thing. Well, it was when I last went into my office - in Feb 2020 :blush:. I’ve been working from home since then, so mainly wearing a mankini!

Also, @mondo‘s “far away from retail” comment likely means as far away from retail price as possible, ie as cheap as possible! 

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