Tender Co. Denim

[tjsma]

@AlientoyWorkmachine those jeans are looking great.

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

conditioning a pair of sidings boots pairs. On the right, about 3.5 years worn occasionally. On the left not even a year, worn occasionally. Right is a size larger, ultimately a little too big unless I wear super thick socks, but at this point quite comfortable. A little bummed the tab on the left boot ripped off recently, hoping to avoid that with the black boots. I love how the leather is coming along and curious how the black pair looks in a few years. 

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

Comparison for fun. 4 yr old woad dyed 129s, fresh indigo (garment dyed) Achilles heel 132’s. I went big and got a size up for some true anti fit jeans. First time I’ve done that in years, so not expecting much in defined fades on these, not that garment dyed pieces lend themselves to that anyways. My hands turned blue just putting them in the pockets so they’re doing another hot hot soak to get rid of some dye and maybe get some shrink out. 

Curiously this new denim feels a bit different than the Woad pair - it feels a little softer, a little lighter, a little bit of a looser weave - something like that. Can’t quite put my finger on it. Also, some little details seem to have changed a touch over the years. Belt loops and snobs thumb pocket seem patterned slightly differently, or else the variations in batches might be more than just the denim. Not a criticism, just an observation. 

[rodeo bill]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:31 AM, AlientoyWorkmachine said:

Curiously this new denim feels a bit different than the Woad pair - it feels a little softer, a little lighter, a little bit of a looser weave - something like that. Can’t quite put my finger on it. Also, some little details seem to have changed a touch over the years. Belt loops and snobs thumb pocket seem patterned slightly differently, or else the variations in batches might be more than just the denim.

lovely comparison photo! your 132s are certainly going to fit quite differently from the 129s. The denim is exactly the same spec and mill, although it will be from different batches. I expect the difference is in the washing that's gone into your 129s- both woad and Achilles' Heel are dyed relatively cool and gently rinsed, so they shrink a bit further with subsequent washing. When garments shrink the yarn gets denser as the fibres contract, and the weight/area increases which also makes the fabric feel harder. My guess is that the new jeans feel how the old jeans did, and they will feel how the old jeans do now after a few years. Alternatively there certainly could be some variation in the fabric.

Details have evolved somewhat over the years- I note that your 129 side belt loops are the 'transition' length (!). Originally the side belt loops were extended and sewn through the yoke seam, however this caused a lot of broken needles, going though a lined belt loop and 4 thicknesses of denim in the seam, which also risked damaging the seam itself. For a while the side belt loops were longer than the front and back ones, sewn though a single thickness of denim, but more recently the belt loops have been matching lengths, and set closer to the side seam, to give more support to a belt at the sides, where it's most needed. Snob's thumb pockets haven't intentionally changed, although the side pocket mouth will be a bit bigger in your upsized 132s than in your 129s, which will make the thumb pocket look proportionally smaller. Again, though, it is possible that there's a bit of natural variation over the years between the two versions. 

 

Looking forward to see how the fit and dye works out for you on your 132s- Please do let us know.

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

3 minutes ago, rodeo bill said:

lovely comparison photo! your 132s are certainly going to fit quite differently from the 129s. The denim is exactly the same spec and mill, although it will be from different batches. I expect the difference is in the washing that's gone into your 129s- both woad and Achilles' Heel are dyed relatively cool and gently rinsed, so they shrink a bit further with subsequent washing. When garments shrink the yarn gets denser as the fibres contract, and the weight/area increases which also makes the fabric feel harder. My guess is that the new jeans feel how the old jeans did, and they will feel how the old jeans do now after a few years. Alternatively there certainly could be some variation in the fabric.

Details have evolved somewhat over the years- I note that your 129 side belt loops are the 'transition' length (!). Originally the side belt loops were extended and sewn through the yoke seam, however this caused a lot of broken needles, going though a lined belt loop and 4 thicknesses of denim in the seam, which also risked damaging the seam itself. For a while the side belt loops were longer than the front and back ones, sewn though a single thickness of denim, but more recently the belt loops have been matching lengths, and set closer to the side seam, to give more support to a belt at the sides, where it's most needed. Snob's thumb pockets haven't intentionally changed, although the side pocket mouth will be a bit bigger in your upsized 132s than in your 129s, which will make the thumb pocket look proportionally smaller. Again, though, it is possible that there's a bit of natural variation over the years between the two versions. 

 

Looking forward to see how the fit and dye works out for you on your 132s- Please do let us know.

Just posted on Waywt and since it's all Tender again why not here. 

Yep, a markedly different fit was what I was after, and I've got it here. The 129's are still getting worn so I didn't want a replacement, per se, and I've learned I don't love hems that are characteristic of a lot of wider jeans so the full cut with the somewhat normal hem made sense for me here, sized up because it's fun to have a truly baggy pair in the mix and I haven't for too long. I did end up giving them a hot wash and double rinse because they were crocking like crazy, and I wanted to see if I could get any last bit of shrink out. I didn't do measurements but they did tighten up a bit, including the denim itself which now feels a touch closer to the Woad denim. Thanks for the note about the belt loops, interesting tidbit there. 

[Cocoa_Lapin]

[Maynard Friedman]

I like the Tender boots posted on this page. I believe they’re made to Bill’s specifications by William Lennon.

[rodeo bill]

A new project: penknives, made in England on a brass skeleton with nickel bolsters at each end, a carbon steel blade and scales cut from pear wood from a tree in our garden. Here are some pictures of the making process, at a three-person factory.

 

Here's the timber for the scales (sides of the knife handle), left over from some work done on a ~250 year old pear tree in our garden, that was splitting. The timber was seasoned over four years in a dry woodshed, and then inside for the last year, to stabilise it.

 

The first thing to do is to cut it down to size, on a band saw, first into a thin flat slice, and then into individual bars for the scales:

thin brass sheet skeleton pieces are then laid on top, and the scales are drilled through the plate, in the places where the rivets will be:

A bolster is a metal piece at the junction between the blade an the handle of a knife. It strengthens the joint and smoothes the shape between the two materials. In kitchen knives it also covers the end grain of wooden scales, which could be unhygienic. In a pocket knife, I was a bit concerned about having sharp corners of wood exposed to knocks, so this knife has an additional bolster at the hilt end. These bolsters are pressed out of nickel, and are drilled through the skeleton as well, on either end of the pear wood scales, keeping everything lined up nice and tightly:

here's the matching pair all lined up but not yet fastened together:

 

The bolsters are now soldered in place, to hold everything properly aligned before it's all riveted:

 

Next, the back spring is fitted. Pressed out of steel plate, it's drilled out and profiled to match the handle shape:

the blade is a deadstock British Army pattern, made in Sheffield of a mid carbon content steel. Low carbon tarnishes less (stainless), but is relatively soft and doesn't hold a sharp edge well. Too high a carbon content and the blade can be brittle- it's very hard and doesn't blunten, but is difficult to sharpen and not really suitable for a general-purpose pocket knife like this:

 

Here's the knife made up on long rivet pins, not yet fixed in place:

but for now, the blade is taken back out, and a piece of steel the same thickness is inserted between the scales to stop anything bending, then the bolster and spring rivets are hammered into place

the ends and sides of the scales now get the first, rough, sanding to shape them to the brass skeleton

now the blade is slotted into place, and another rivet wire is fitted and snipped off

 

The back of the knife is ground down so that it will all line up flat once it's riveted. At this point the blade hasn't been sharpened, so the following processes aren't quite as risky as they look!

 

The snap of the spring can now be tested and the blade shape adjusted if necessary

Now the blade rivet is hammered into place, and the scales are rounded off to match the shape of the nickel bolsters

 

finally, the blade is factory-sharpened on a grindstone

and the handle is printed, then it's finished! most knife handles would be sealed, but I preferred to leave the wood with just a light oiling- this way it will darken and take on indigo from jeans pockets, over time.

 

I hope this has been interesting! It's been lovely for me to learn about a new craft, and fun to do a post about it- it's been a while, as most of the production techniques for clothing have been covered earlier in the thread.

I've had my own knife a couple of months now, and it's looking lovely. Updates as it evolves.

 

 

Edited January 23 by rodeo bill

[Duke Mantee]

I think we need to get the expert opinion of @Double 0 Soul for this

[Double 0 Soul]

'Expert' is a bit of a stretch.. it does look nice, i have a soft spot for those type of knives.. we all had one back in those halcyon days of the 1980s when every kid was armed to the teeth with weapons but nobody ever got stabbed...

Relatives would leave the forces with their army/navy issue knifes and they'd stick it in their tool box in the garage only to be found blunt and rusty years later by their kids/grandkids/nephews.. you'd say "dad can i have this knife" of course you can son.. "do you want to offer me any advice on how i can use it safely" of course not.. it's the 1980s!

A friend from Dorset sent me this photo a few years ago asking me what i knew of the makers marks and i went down yet another internet-wormhole.. the one on the right is WW2 issue, the one on the left was issued to him when he joined the navy in 1973, he said they were nicknamed the 'Pussers Dirk'

 

Taylor's was made at .Eyewhitness Works (hence the eyeball). the derelict building was repurposed for a Phlegm ehxibition i went to a few years ago.. Sadly it's now being converted into yet more souless appartments we don't need.

The Rogers is Joseph Rogers which i think are still made by either Eggington or J Adams (where i bought my scissors) just copies made under license but they still make/sell knifes in Sheffield which is something... alas, they're under increasing pressure to sell/move by Sheffield council to make way for (you guessed it) more flats.. student accom in this instance.

[Double 0 Soul]

Also.. my compliments to the knife makers fingers, that’s some deep patina.. In sharp contrast to @Maynard Friedman highly polished fingernails which have never seen a days work in their life 

Edited January 23 by Double 0 Soul

[Maynard Friedman]

My fingers have keyboard patina dontcha know? Sadly, my fingernails are probably my best feature 😆😪

[Double 0 Soul]

They are beautiful.. although I’d never give you a job after seeing them 

[MJF9]

Maynard's fingernails are quite cute eh... sooo Sufu, in a way

[Geeman]

Are those acid wash Maynard?  

You should be ashamed of yourself 

[Maynard Friedman]

Unfortunately I sized down so am trying to s-t-r-e-t-c-h them out a bit.

[Toegun]

Got this Tender number off the Lost and Found sale. Very easy relaxed fit and I love how it looks with jeans. Chuffed to bits. Colour is hard to photograph with phone cam but the first pic is more true then the others, they are a bit rich in colour. 

[LazyS]

^Cat wants to come back in

[textandaction]

@Toegun I made the same purchase—a really great deal. The texture of the barley twist fabric is really extraordinary, as comes across nicely in your photos, and the dyes have taken so well to it. In addition to the tan wattle Millwheel, I also picked up an Achilles Heel indigo Didcot shirt in the winter sales. I just can't get enough of the barley twist!

[MJF9]

@Toegun nice... what size did you pick up?

[Toegun]

5 needed the extra shoulder space for the sleeves. I love it. 

17 hours ago, MJF9 said:

@Toegun nice... what size did you pick up

[heyson]

Molleton 130

Worn on and off for a couple years now. Really love them, and trying to make them my everyday pair or at least in heavy rotation more recently. Such great fabric ❤️

[MJF9]

743 pullover, just washed

[jeash90]

1 hour ago, MJF9 said:

743 pullover, just washed

Very cool! I have one too, only washed a couple of times so far so it's still pretty dark. Looking forward to the lighter color, it looks great!

[sensy]

Oh snap, the tricolore-weft is back (https://www.tenderstores.com/product/type-497-open-shoulder-floor-shirt/?variation=33143). I love my shirt in that material (even tho it's just slightly too small for my current weight). Tell Second Sunrise or Maritime Antiques & to pick up some shirts in that material @rodeo bill (sadly import duties makes it slightly too expensive for me to order directly from you right now).

Also, will there be other shirts in tricolore?

Edited March 4 by sensy

[bartlebyyphonics]

just posting up some 132 pix…

fit, fade, denim quality… 

worn from raw… not hugely washed…

 

[bartlebyyphonics]

plus as @julian-wolf was asking difference in 125 vs 132 here they are together (both sz 5, 125 the unfaded one) to get a sense of the different cut / pattern… one big difference other than thigh-knee-hem is back pocket size…

Edited March 4 by bartlebyyphonics

[julian-wolf]

Really good comparison @bartlebyyphonics, thanks

You’re right that the front rise on the 125 doesn’t seem as much higher as I would have expected

From your photos, it seems like maybe similar room in the crotch + upper thighs, but less in the hips + seat and less through the rest of the legs (on the 125 as compared to the 132)?

[chicote]

^That's what it looks like to me as well. I had puzzled over measurements I'd seen on the 125 as the rise looked hardly different than the 132, but again, sometimes subtleties of cut can give two garments w similar measurements entirely different fits...

[bartlebyyphonics]

to clarify: as mentioned in waywt thread; 132 is from raw, 125 ‘achilles’ overdye; both start from very different places and i think the overdyed pair may have room to expand yet ie expecting a little more stretch in the 125 fr, ma thic butt has already done its work on the br…

the measurements here; https://www.shopneighbour.com/products/tender-mens-125-high-straight-jeans-16oz-selvage-denim-x-achilles-heel are pretty accurate to what came through the post…

and yes @julian-wolf your summary is pretty spot on: 125 is slimmer in seat and hips, but not awkwardly so… the 132 pretty much hangs on by the belt… different strokes…

Edited March 5 by bartlebyyphonics