Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[itsbenhere]

Hayashi is the steeze lord.

Always weird to me how tsujimoto is never wearing RMC...

[clt3]

Who are the 1st and 3rd guys from the left?

[redragon]

Amazing lot of people!

The 1st one is Tsujimoto-san of RMC (&denime?)

The 3rd person next to Yamane-san...is that Takagi-san?

Weird not seeing Tsujita-san there...

Edited February 9, 2016 by redragon

[setterman]

What are the Warehouse brothers names again?  

 

and is @masakifujili on instagram involved with Warehouse in some way?  

[Maynard Friedman]

Shiotani is the surname I think and both first names begin with a K, hence the KK on the rivets.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Kenichi Shiotani & Koji Shiotani

Edited February 9, 2016 by beautiful_FrEaK

[Sugar Mountain]

Masaki Fujiki is the Warehouse press guy (he runs one of the two blogs on the WH website). Features in the Denim Book and the Denim Life published by Lightning mag too.

[setterman]

Thanks, I thought he was involved in the one blog.  

[Maynard Friedman]

Kenichi Shiotani & Koji Shiotani

Thanks, I was going to say Keith and Kevin!

[dwilson123]

As we're having this discussion over at the IHF and I think it apllies to other brands as well: What's your opinion on limited stuff (and the possibility of remaking it)? It seems like there are the collectors that value some items more because they're rare. They strongly oppose a remake of those items. I, on the other hand, would prefer the approach of a full broad range of stuff, that's always available. Let's say like the core range of TFH or RMC. I'd also like to see some of the rare stuff being remade to have a wider choice.

 

While I think it's cool to own limited stuff I prefer being able to chosse to buy it whenever I have the funds and not just when the Special release becomes available. I also think that some items just land in collections and don't get the wear they deserve to become really beautiful. Sometimes I feel like the value of that stuff is just seen in the possession, not the use. And speaking of clothes, especially raw denim, that's a weird development IMO.

 

I admit I got nervous and jumped on my PBJ 24-005's from BiG because I was nervous I'd never see them again.  I know R&H did another run of 24oz PBJ denim but I believe those were weaved on different looms than the original PBJ 24's which were on the older PBJ looms known for their characteristic chatter.  But I could just be making shit up I honestly don't know.

 

I'm actually bummed I never jumped on TSG heavyweights they put out.  From what I understand TSG has no interest in doing another heavyweight run.

[dwilson123]

As for ONI it was a brand I was super interested in when I first started getting into Japanese denim.  The stars just never aligned for me to get a pair when they were exclusive to BiG.  Anymore they feel like they've just sold out and have gone all-in on just making whacky fabrics to appeal to novice denim fans just getting into Japanese raw.  It is easy to justify spending a ton of cash on a pair of pants when you are getting this fabric you'd never see in a department store so I get the appeal.  But with the mediocre construction and mediocre quality and the gaudyness of the denim I've pretty much lost all interest in the brand completely.  Now that they're in bed with Denimio so heavily the original appeal of the brand of being secret and exclusive is 100% gone which was originally a driving force behind them.  Now they're just another Japanese denim brand putting out mediocre products so everyone on reddit can jerk off their siq slubz.

 

I also agree with Ben where I get this odd feeling where Denimio is just trying to cash in on the Japanese raw denim craze.  Everything about them feels forced and not genuine.  I will grant they do have outstanding prices and customer service.

[dwilson123]

Also I saw a thread in passing on /r/rawdenim saying that Iron Heart won't be available through Rakuten?  I didn't really delve deeper to confirm.  Anyone hear about that?  If so I guess I'm probably done with Iron Heart.

[Max Power]

Hasn't it been always hard to get the full IH range from Japan? I used a proxy to order from rebirth & craft a few times, as T Shirts etc. weren't available from rakuten. IMO they just did what other brands try now - you have a strong western market with "exclusive retailers" and yet denimio or rakuten is available for a fracture of the price. IH simply anticipated that and seperated the markets.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Max Power

[kiya]

What Iron Heart is doing isn't a surprise, it's what every company does when they reach a certain level as a business.

It's just in our world of raw denim, there aren't many companies which get to that level.  

Real McCoy's and Iron Heart are the first two to get to that level as a company where they have to separate the markets so that they can control their distribution and protect their retailers (their words, not mine).  RMC went even harder than IH by closing down most of their retail accounts worldwide and going direct to consumer with the exception of a small handful of retailers.

If you take another industry and put it up against ours the same thing happens.  There was a day where you could get a Rolex cheaper in Switzerland than in Los Angeles, or a day where a Porsche costs far less if bought in Germany than in London, and those are only brick and mortar examples.  With the internet you have nearly every company not allowing their retailers or even their own company webshops to ship outside of their country; everybody from Nike to Alden does this.  

[TheIntelligentHoodwinker]

Yamane would have gotten negative reps in the WAYWT haha. But Hayashi looks on point, as always.

 

The perils of washing loopwheeled sweatshirts too hot. Even he can't get it right!

[Blue Nemo]

The perils of washing loopwheeled sweatshirts too hot. Even he can't get it right!

 

keeping in mind whom we're talking about, he might did it on purpose ;-)

[Max Power]

Looking at the Evisu / Yamane features in the lightning mags, I think he plays in his own league.

[Blue Nemo]

definitely

[dwilson123]

Hasn't it been always hard to get the full IH range from Japan? I used a proxy to order from rebirth & craft a few times, as T Shirts etc. weren't available from rakuten. IMO they just did what other brands try now - you have a strong western market with "exclusive retailers" and yet denimio or rakuten is available for a fracture of the price. IH simply anticipated that and seperated the markets.

 

Yeah you could rarely find their workshirts and the variety they have at SE/IHUK but you could get some basics like their yearly flannels, jeans and t-shirts via Rakuten.  Only a handful of shops stocked their stuff.  I've been getting less and less interested in IH in general so this move to shut out Rakuten (a practice I already don't like very much) just makes it easier for me to jump ship on the brand.

[Flash]

This type of stuff sucks for us but when you look at it objectively the it's in the brands best interest if selling internationally is there goal

[setterman]

Seems like putting off the inevitable, that at some point a retail store won't matter.  To me the logical end will be a brand web store, and how much you pay depends on where the item is being shipped to.

 

I'll use my favorite brand of Warehouse as an example.  You log into the site, and want to buy a pair of model 800. They're currently 20,250 yen (roughly $178 as of today).  With the idea I have above, they'd ship to the US, but the US price would be something like $240 (not $178).  They'll go to the UK for 160 British Pounds (not 122). And if people want to run a retail store, they'll charge the same amount as the brand web store would for their particular country, and they're not allowed to ship to anyone outside their country.  This benefits everyone involved.  Brand controls the price, a store in the US wouldn't have to worry about competing with retailers in Japan and a weak yen, and consumers will have access to a brand's entire line without a retailer having to stock items there's minimal market for.  

Edited February 10, 2016 by setterman

[bradl]

Japanese company's should have same wholesale world wide, set regional restrictions and stores that loose out in NA/EU will be way better off.

Not sure if anyone knows, but why does the Japanese companies have different wholesale outside of Japan?

[dwilson123]

Seems like putting off the inevitable, that at some point a retail store won't matter.  To me the logical end will be a brand web store, and how much you pay depends on where the item is being shipped to.

 

I'll use my favorite brand of Warehouse as an example.  You log into the site, and want to buy a pair of model 800. They're currently 20,250 yen (roughly $178 as of today).  With the idea I have above, they'd ship to the US, but the US price would be something like $240 (not $178).  They'll go to the UK for 160 British Pounds (not 122). And if people want to run a retail store, they'll charge the same amount as the brand web store would for their particular country, and they're not allowed to ship to anyone outside their country.  This benefits everyone involved.  Brand controls the price, a store in the US wouldn't have to worry about competing with retailers in Japan and a weak yen, and consumers will have access to a brand's entire line without a retailer having to stock items there's minimal market for.  

 

I feel like that would just encourage proxies way more.  So in the end the customer still gets the short end because instead of being able to just conveniently buy items I have to go through the process of finding a proxy.

[setterman]

How much is the proxy going to save you? $20 after paying their fees?  To me it seems beneficial (and convenient) as a customer to be able to contact RMC, IH, or any other brand and order any item in their catalog and have it shipped straight to me at an amount a bit higher than the current exchange, but lower than where the current US retail is.  

[dwilson123]

How much is the proxy going to save you? $20 after paying their fees?  To me it seems beneficial (and convenient) as a customer to be able to contact RMC, IH, or any other brand and order any item in their catalog and have it shipped straight to me at an amount a bit higher than the current exchange, but lower than where the current US retail is.  

 

Savings depends on quantity of the purchase and exchange rates and all that.  If the Yen takes another nose dive and suddenly trades at like 1USD=200YEN it would be impossible for the web shop to constantly try to keep up with what a "fair" price should be for overseas customers.

 

Then this leads me into the other issue where now you're asking the brand manufacturer to be a store as well.  Places like the stores on Rakuten, SE and the like exist for a reason.  Brands don't want to have to keep all this inventory themselves they want to sell bulk orders to other retailers.  But in this model they'd be forced to keep a sizable quantity of every item they're producing on-hand.  I doubt they'd be too keen on doing that simply to appease Western retailers.

 

Either way like Kiya said if a brand really wants to be international it can't make it so it is drasitically cheaper buying it on Rakuten.  It makes no sense in the long run that a pair of IH jeans are $150 cheaper on Vari compared to SE.  So I get why IH is doing it I'm just saying that it isn't for me.  Luckily IH is pretty far away from being one of my favorite brands (though I do like the items I have) but it sets a tone that I'd be upset to see if TFH follows and pulls all Rakuten items.

[setterman]

Then this leads me into the other issue where now you're asking the brand manufacturer to be a store as well. 

 

 

Good point I didn't consider.  Though don't most of the Japanese brands have their own store fronts too?  

 

I'm in the same boat as you, where it doesn't really effect me (yet) because the brands making these changes aren't ones I buy. 

[givemefive]

Yen seems to be going back up wonder if it will continue.

[dwilson123]

Hopefully not I need to buy short sleeve shirts for summer!

[Geeman]

I hope not I'm going to Japan in May!

[givemefive]

I hope not I'm going to Japan in May!

 

Exchange some cash now