Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[unders]

Thanks bud, but I need a new pair of jeans like a hole in the head at the moment - gotta keep chipping away at my DWC pair and a pretty much unworn pair of Westride. Cheers though mate, when it's time for me to cop a new pair I'll give you a shout.

And yeah, any factory pics would be great. Those influences are probably why his products look so cool.

[Geeman]

Regarding the buying from japan vs a uk dealer I balance it out. When buying basics, plain tshirts, Oxfords etc I order from JP for the savings but for big purchase like coats flannels jeans and boots I'll always go to a uk retailer. It's worth the price for the experience and also to support the retailer. Trying on in the UK to order from JP is a low blow and wouldn't be possible unless we support them as a community.

[dwilson123]

On the subject of international retail, I have a pair of 25oz anniversary edition Samurai for sale on eBay for £175 in fantastic condition. They have a best offer set to accept £150 and a guy dropped me an offer of £120, which I declined.

 

The guy then messaged me with a perfectly reasonable question, which got me thinking, he said "Samurai are selling these new for £162 so why is £120 not a reasonable offer?". Nothing wrong with that question.

 

I responded by telling him that BiG sell them at $400+, Son of Stag sell them for £425+ and the only other pair listed on eBay was for $650 (clearly ridiculous). I also told him that the Samurai price is great, and he should probably buy them for that price, my price is reflective of my investment in the jeans, and how much I value them at, if he disagrees then they are probably not the jeans for him. Just another example of how the ease of purchasing from Japan can also effect the used market too.

 

I think the issue here lies in ebay is more analogous to buying from a Japanese retailer than a non-Japanese retailer.  The big plus for non-Japanese retailers is you can easily as questions, they have multiple sizes they can measure for you, you can quickly and easily return the garment and all the other things you typically associate with brick & mortar.  Obviously buying from someone on ebay you'll be able to get (possibly incorrect since people suck at measuring it seems) measurements for only that pair of jeans, questions will always be inclined towards "Buy this exact pair" instead of trying to fit you for a pair of jeans that really fit what you're looking for and you won't be able to return them.  So much of the risk lies on the buyer which is pretty similar to buying through Rakuten.  The benefit, obviously, is if you know exactly what you want and your exact measurements you can get a screaming deal on a pair of jeans.

[Megatron1505]

Yeh, the guy had a fair point in asking, but the logic of his comparison doesn't really hold up as I am not a Japanese retailer, I'm a guy selling a pair of jeans for what (all things considered) I feel is a decent price.

[Cold Summer]

I've been a denim fan for six years now and probably the most important thing that I've learned is that I never need to be wearing more than two pairs of jeans at a time: a slim tapered pair for wearing with T-shirts and slimmer/dressier tops, and a slim straight pair for wearing with engineer boots, flannels, etc.

 

There are a lot of people on here (BF, Foxy, etc.) who enjoy having a huge collection of jeans and for whom wearing a single pair into ribbons isn't the objective, but I would much rather wear in a single pair for a very long time and only get a new one when my current pair is in need of serious repairs. All of my favorite pairs I've seen over the years - Sidneylo's Flat Head 3001s, Liannesmiles' PBJ XX-011s, ZackV's 3Sixteen SL-120x, or Max Power's Samurai S710xx - were worn almost exclusively from the time they were new until they were fully broken in.

 

I feel like there's a constant temptation in the denim community to chase the next "big thing" - a flashy new pair, one that fits a little better or is a little bit hairier or more exclusive, and so on. In my experience this usually results in abandoning hard work and time put into pairs that will never look as great as they would if you'd just stuck with them. I've bought and sold a ton of pairs over the years and have zero pairs of worn-to-hell jeans because I'd always get caught into wanting something potentially better. I've finally said screw it and (assuming I can maintain the self-control necessary) I don't plan to buy any more jeans until I've put an entire year of wear time into my 3Sixteen and Samurai jeans that are the only ones I'm actively wearing now.

 

The great thing about being a raw denim fan is that the hobby itself actually rewards you for showing patience and self-control.

 

As far as brands go, my biggest mistake is sticking with The Flat Head for way too long. Don't get me wrong: they make an amazing product. They're still my favorite jeans in terms of denim, fading, and design/details. The problem is that they just don't work well for my body type and if I'd figured that out sooner instead of putting years of effort into trying different models looking for something that worked, I could've faded two or three amazing-looking pairs of jeans. There are some TFH items I love and will never get rid of (my flannels that fit well, my denim shirt, my boots, cordovan wallet, etc.) but I've come to realize that for tops and bottoms TFH just isn't going to work for me.

 

Related to this, I regret not jumping on board with 3Sixteen a lot sooner, because their ST and SL fits work great for me, and their fabrics are very nice. 

[Megatron1505]

Thanks bud, but I need a new pair of jeans like a hole in the head at the moment - gotta keep chipping away at my DWC pair and a pretty much unworn pair of Westride. Cheers though mate, when it's time for me to cop a new pair I'll give you a shout.

And yeah, any factory pics would be great. Those influences are probably why his products look so cool.

 

I wasn't looking to sell you a pair dude, I have a couple of pairs laying around that I could ship over for you to try out and see if you like them 

[unders]

Cool - soz mate, completely misunderstood. I'm a 32

[Megatron1505]

No worries mate, as it turns out you are considerably slimmer than I anyway 

[unders]

Ha! Cheers anyway Mega.

[Geeman]

I wasn't looking to sell you a pair dude, I have a couple of pairs laying around that I could ship over for you to try out and see if you like them 

This right here is what Sufu should be about. Not the most slub/expensive/hairy/faded/authentic/rare. Just love of the craftmanship and a perfect fit.

[cmboland]

Having worked in retail I can say that show-rooming happens all the time. Even outside the denim scene, big retailers like Amazon can manage to make prices lower and a lot of people will try to find the item online right in front of you. I had a girl try on some sunglasses once, whip out her phone and say "well I found them on Amazon for 40 dollars cheaper, so I think I'll get them from there, thanks!" 

Luckily it's repeat customers who understand the role that smaller retailers play and come back for the personalized touch.

And that's why I don't mind whatever "premium" there is, because I know I could reach out to Kiya or Tyler or any of the Self Edge guys and they'd help me out and make sure I ended up with the right thing for me.

Although i don't shop at Self Edge directly, I feel exactly this way about Andrew @ 3sixteen

[KrisB]

~ Open conversation question ~

 

Do you think black denim is harder to fade than regular indigo jeans?

 

I have been wondering about this as it was brought to my attention by a friend; so let's see what the Sufu community thinks. 

Edited December 1, 2015 by KrisB

[setterman]

Put this under reflections.... One of the things I dislike about raw denim is the stretch.  Jeans fit great outta the wash, but within a week everything is stretched out, most irritatingly at the waist and knees.   

[Broark]

Put this under reflections.... One of the things I dislike about raw denim is the stretch.  Jeans fit great outta the wash, but within a week everything is stretched out, most irritatingly at the waist and knees.   

 

Agreed, but the only pair that I've really noticed this not happen with are my Roy RT1002's.

The knees haven't really started bagging at all, which usually happens in a few days for me. Maybe it has something to do with the cotton used.

[chicote]

I've noticed the same with my Evisus.. the fit stays as it was out of the wash!

[cmboland]

I hate knee bags.

[MileHighEvertonian]

 

~ Open conversation question ~

 

Do you think black denim is harder to fade than regular indigo jeans?

 

I have been wondering about this as it was brought to my attention by a friend; so let's see what the Sufu community thinks. 

 

 

I don't know if I would say black denim is harder to fade (in terms of time), but I would contend that it fades differently and therefore gives that impression. In my experience, the key difference between black and indigo is that the indigo tends to go through many more distinct "phases" as its color evolves. Black denim tends march steadily toward grey and white. Beyond just color, both evolve and change according to the texture and weave of the fabric, which offers its own set of phases along the way. Here's an old pic of my Leftfield Black Marias (which have a 14.5oz sulfur-dyed, black warp/black weft Collect Mills fabric) after about 16 months of regular wear and regular washes. I'll be curious to read what others have to say on this topic. 

 

[Megatron1505]

Depends on the dye used in black jeans, many "true" black jeans are not dyed with a furtive pigment dye, so the fading is much harder. Black jeans where the weft is clearly white and visible are mainly dyed in the same way as indigo jeans, i.e with a furtive pigment, which leads to they having noticeable fades and becoming greyer over time.

 

I have a pair of Iron Heart 555BLK jeans which are showing signs of combs and whiskers, but they are not as pronounced as they would be with indigo....so I guess the answer is.....probably.

[KrisB]

Haha "probably" I like your style mega.

 

@milehigh Those are amazing results dude, gives me hope. But I completely agree with your "phases" idea with indigo, as I witnessed it myself while wearing my pair of sbg beatle busters and compairing them to my other pairs of jeans. It seems like black denim will continue to be really dark until a certain time where you look at them then they seem to have faded overnight. I just remember being quite struck while wearing my sbg's after 6 months and not seeing the same results as 6 months in an indigo pair. 

 

Thanks for the reply guys

[cmboland]

Haha "probably" I like your style mega.

@milehigh Those are amazing results dude, gives me hope. But I completely agree with your "phases" idea with indigo, as I witnessed it myself while wearing my pair of sbg beatle busters and compairing them to my other pairs of jeans. It seems like black denim will continue to be really dark until a certain time where you look at them then they seem to have faded overnight. I just remember being quite struck while wearing my sbg's after 6 months and not seeing the same results as 6 months in an indigo pair.

Thanks for the reply guys

If I purchased black Raws I would personally prefer something that wouldn't fade as fast. I purchased black for black and not necessarily for gray. I'd go for Something double black. I guess I prefer indigo fades over gray fades.

[Max Power]

My 710 BKB are among the fastest fading jeans I've ever owned. But I also think that the black colour exaggerates contrast. My IH 555-03 had a similar effect in the beginning, but they seem to turn to a greyish tone and mute down.

 

I have another opinion: seems like my interest in denim is diminishing for a while now. I've tried most brands / cuts I like, there's not much innovation or new stuff going on and I know how most pairs will turn out faded. When I started 7 years ago there was a lot of curiosity even regarding the bigger brands, but now we all can get our stuff with ease from japan, to cheap prices, sold by english speaking sellers or at the local shop in our town.

 

Not sure where this will lead for me, maybe there'll be a time when it gets interesting again, but I find myself not reading or posting that much anymore. Contests and World Tours sadly are a bit overdone by now as well.

 

(I write this in a bad mood, though haha).

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I am a little bit with Flo. My enthusiasm has slowed down a bit. I still love and enjoy wearing raw denim and I don’t think I can ever go back to “normal†jeans but I see myself less interested in new stuff and my urge to buy new jeans immediately is also gone.

I have still some pairs on my radar but at the moment I prefer to spend my money on other things.

 

I also have a hard time to commit to one pair. Okay, I always had that problem but nowadays even more so. I nearly wear a different pair every day. Although I am in the DWC, I feel not motivated enough to just wear my beloved 66XX. So I end up rotating between Denime 66XX & 25^th Anniversary, Fullcount 1101, Ooe, Evisu, Eternal, some Samurais and whenever I see someone here on Sufu wearing a pair I also have I want to wear them, too

Edited December 2, 2015 by beautiful_FrEaK

[Maynard Friedman]

Will the last one to leave please turn off the lights...

[chicote]

My taste has moved somewhat to finding NOS pairs from certain brands' past releases.. so I'm also pretty uninterested in anything new coming out, but hell yeah to a nice pair of 2501xx or Warehouse with the bull patch!

 

On that note, what are everyone's favorite vintage 'period' pairs, as in specific styles, specific denims, etc... Mine, for whatever reason I am really into some sort of bovine on the patch... Warehouse, Evisu, whatever, sign me up!!

 

 

Why not go on another tangent? What music is everyone into right now? I've got two in particular:

 

Maxima Meija, from Ecuador, a fantastic musician I was introduced to recently:

 

and Amara Touré, who recorded a total of 10 songs between 1973 and 1980, rather inventive Cuban-influenced African jazz: https://analogafrica.bandcamp.com/album/amara-toure-1973-1980- I recommend track 6 particularly.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing others' recommendations!

[Max Power]

As Music has been mentioned - I've seen Joey Ramones 501 in the Ramones Museum lately. A great place to hang out and must see if you're in Berlin - not far from the denim mile (Burg & Schild, 14 oz, LVC, Nudie, Denham and so on). Cool to see one of the most iconic Levi's in the history of Music (for me, besides Born in the USA & Sticky Fingers).

 

Having seen Clutch last sunday I still can't praise them enough. Psychic Warfare is one of the best records of the year. But then, I didn't buy much records this year as I also stopped reading much about Music and stick to the stuff I know. (so maybe you just stop being enthusiatic about everything when you're over 30?). I mainly try to acquire the classics that I lack and don't pay much attention to new releases. So there's the Connection to all you yahoo-Japan denimhunters.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Max Power

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I concur with chicote:

Hunting for old pairs on Yahoo auction, taobao or some not-so-well-known Rakuten shops brought back the fun from the beginner days.

Trying to get BNWT Denime jeans was a great fun to me and it still is. Although prices are crazy for them. A pair of Evisu 2101 would also be nice!

[unders]

This is interesting around not being so excited by denim these days.   

 

I'm pretty much the opposite. I got into it as a youngster when I had a bit more disposable income and copped a few pieces which are now hard to come by (result!). But then normal life got in the way of my obsession so I had less time to spend perusing the webs and spent more time on my career, chicks, drinking, music, etc. Those combined with a few pretty shitty life events just meant I didn't have time to obsess. I spent a few years wearing LVC as it was easily accessible and pretty much ignored what was happening further afield. Now life has calmed down a lot and I can spend time & energy on looking for denim, and I'm loving it!  

 

I also think technology has helped alot. It used to be that if I wanted to do some denim research I'd have to fire up a laptop or even worse, a PC. Now I can just peruse on my phone.  

 

Anyway, apologies for the mini-autobiography - just my two cents.

 

Edit: on music - going to see Orange Goblin tomorrow night. Cannot bloody wait - if you haven't seen them YouTube a live performance - fucking nutters!

Edited December 2, 2015 by unders

[Frost]

I can still get excited about denim, but I am a lot more picky nowadays when it comes to clothing. When I started out, everything seemed great and exciting, but now there are specific asthetics and styles that I prefer, which seems like a natural evolution to me.

 

I also love a lot of other stuff that wouldn't be discussed here and would fit more on the Stylezeitgeist forums, but I currently don't have enough cash to buy fancy designer stuff anyways!

 

So, yes, still interested in denim, but I can feel my interests diverging and drawing me to other places, which is totally fine.

 

As for music, here's my current top 3 bands:

 

 

Fuck it, non-noisy:

[Maynard Friedman]

I don't obsess about new jeans because I have an amazing stash of carefully selected gems to look forward to. I only rotate 2-3 pairs at any time so can enjoy their individual nuances, whilst revisiting my stockpile to plan and anticipate what to wear next.

I will be adding one more pair (probably early next year) but will be looking to sell at least 2 pairs to make room.

I'm still excited by denim, just not bothered by the new release gravy train.

[Cucoo]

But then, I didn't buy much records this year as I also stopped reading much about Music and stick to the stuff I know. (so maybe you just stop being enthusiatic about everything when you're over 30?)

 

Same here, more or less, but I still do discover new music, just by different means: since I switched to a streaming subscription I like to fill my queue with lots and lots of "you might like this if you like that" recommendations and I've found quite a lot of great stuff that way I probably never would've discovered if I'd stuck to reading about it. Spotify or Google Music sometimes throw stuff at you that has like 3 listeners according to Last.fm.

 

One band that continues to amaze me every time I put them on is Kofelgschroa: