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Sugar Cane Denim

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1 hour ago, Thanks_M8 said:

^read somewhere in this Threads that the stitching isn't as clean as on the MiJ models, but can't say anything about it yet, as I have not worn my MiUSA pair yet.

not sure if it's relevant but my MFSC garments that are miUSA have stitching as good as anything - including my pair of canes. 

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2 hours ago, Thanks_M8 said:

^read somewhere in this Threads that the stitching isn't as clean as on the MiJ models, but can't say anything about it yet, as I have not worn my MiUSA pair yet.

Could have been me, historically SC-MiA were never up to SC-MiJ quality.. some folks used to think the old MiA cords were fake they were that bad but this was 10 maybe 15yrs ago, things change, staff change, the recent offerings from the last few years look top notch to me.

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@unders I went TTS, and the fit is just right. Don't size up unless you want to really cinch the back or something. 

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Posted (edited)

@beautiful_FrEaK There are reasons to believe this. I fully expect these 37s to have problems, the back of the chain stitch on the waist is actually missing in two small places. The leather quality is the worst I've yet come across on any of the big repro brands. At best, it's split grain. The crotch will probably go in a similar manner as did my MiUSA 47s, and I think the construction around the crotch is the weakest nock against all the MiUSA SCs I've yet had.

And even still, the hardware is solid, I think this fabric is as good as anyone's, and the cut is just right. SC is charging a sizeable premium for their MiUSA models, and for this price, the issues I have with these offerings should've been resolved, imo. Whether they seek greater margins or pay more for labor relative to the Japanese market, or both, I know not. 

I had the privilege to speak with Larry McKaughan (Heller's Cafe) recently, and he was giving some insight into the process when he was looking to secure a producer for his own line of clothing. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing our conversation in part. In working with WH, he felt that the enthusiasm was always there, and the details and actual production were more or less in the money every time. The passion from the execs of brands like WH or FW shines through all the way to the finished product (he was specifically partial to FW). But, after witnessing the production floors in Japan, let's just say he had half a mind to walk away from the business of producing clothing altogether. Something about a particularly lifeless seamstress looking back at him... 

He hinted to me that when originally looking to secure a producer he had met with 'one of the larger' companies in Japan. They were insisting to him that they need not be too concerned with construction and fabric to improve profitability, as the consumer would pay for their goods regardless. My first guess was Toyo, but he (rightly) declined to tell me who it was. 

It's all speculation from my narrow view of this world, but I do think that Toyo isn't on the level Freewheelers or Warehouse are and that ultimately this discrepancy is a matter of personal philosophy stemming from the top. 

Edit: I will still wear the shit out of these MiUSA Sugarcane's ;)

Edited by JMS

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Posted (edited)
On 4/3/2022 at 12:21 PM, AlientoyWorkmachine said:

moreso historical and industry knowledge.

That entire response is really thoughtful.

I have gotten reprimanded on this forum when I have brought up historical content of denim jackets so I am glad to hear your interest in such, but then I could say, “Ice Cream tastes good” and the gatekeepers are going to disagree with me...Lol

As for arcuates, or logos, not being important, I wonder how Nike sales would be affected if they removed the swoosh from their products? I am pretty certain such things do matter to most. Personally, I like many designs such as Lee and MF and I like the “wings” on the Samurai and various others but then I like hand embroidery on shirts and even though I don’t have any Wranglers at the moment, out West and in the SW, they are as much a symbol as the rainbow is for others.

Although, Wild Ass brand does not have a pocket design, I really like Henry the kicking mule patch (besides they are a tight weave heavy denim that are long wearing).

 

 

Edited by Pedro

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9 hours ago, JMS said:

They were insisting to him that they need not be too concerned with construction and fabric to improve profitability, as the consumer would pay for their goods regardless.

Modern Times.

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14 minutes ago, Pedro said:

As for arcuates, or logos, not being important, I wonder how Nike sales would be affected if they removed the swoosh from their products? I am pretty certain such things do matter to most. Personally, I like many designs such as Lee and MF and I like the “wings” on the Samurai and various others but then I like hand embroidery on shirts and even though I don’t have any Wranglers at the moment, out West and in the SW, they are as much a symbol as the rainbow is for others.

Not to go on (though I will), but I think you're right. If Nike's had no swoosh, many would not want them. I think that's true with Levi's arcs too ... with actual Levi's jeans. But most of us here aren't buying or discussing Levi's - just things that were inspired by them (to varying, sometimes obsessive degree to be sure).

But plenty of other brands have successfully opted to go for minimal/no logo sort of branding. I'm not the sort that would ever be interested in counterfeit/bootleg Nike's though - and putting something close to a swoosh on something that isn't Nike just to signal/fool observers is just...I don't know, to me that's super silly. Like the height of conspicuous consumerism. I'd much rather have something well made, by a thoughtful creator and unbranded than pay extra for something that tries to get close to a reproduction of something, but doesn't have much imagination. Is it more about the symbol or about the actual quality of the garment? I think most here tend to gravitate towards things that are a bit different from these sorts of obvious branding strategies - and there are plenty of goods discussed here that are well appreciated and have totally invisible branding to most observers. I think the Levi's arc maybe get beyond that - they're such an established part of their jeans. But really, only them. I can't think of any other jeans that seem to really need the arcs. Even the Wrangler and Lee ones just still read as the attempt to copy Levi's in a way they could legally get away with. A Lee arc still signals a knock off to me, haha, absurd as that may sound.

But then, my least favorite part of my MF jeans are the arcs and patch placement. I haven't ripped them off but I still may. And Lee and Wrangler arcs are totally unappealing to me as well. Give me a blank pocket over that for sure. That said if I ever found a pair of old raw canes with the broken arcs in a 29 or 30 I'd probably grab them.

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No swoosh on Nike Air Jordans (apart from AJ1's) didn't seem to affect their sales... quite the opposite

..Huarache? i'm sure there are others

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Apologies if this is a repeat question, but do the 1947 black version fit the same as the 1947 indigo version? I was going to get another pair of 47s from Japan and might as well get a black version too.

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26 minutes ago, ColdsnapBryan said:

Apologies if this is a repeat question, but do the 1947 black version fit the same as the 1947 indigo version? I was going to get another pair of 47s from Japan and might as well get a black version too.

The intended fit is the same, but they fit a little differently and they size a little differently because the two fabrics react quite differently to being cut/sewn/rinsed.

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Posted (edited)

I have a pair of lightly worn size 34 black 47’s I would sell for $120 so I can size up. 

 Worn 5 times, hemmed to 29. Have not seen water yet. 

Edited by SmokeStackLightning

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Posted (edited)

Just got a pair of raw Okinawa in. Is the below a fault, or nothing to worry about? I’ve never noticed the orange thread at the crotch seam being off center like this before. 

Edit: I have them soaking now, the stitching seems solid and I won’t ever see the area, just curious. 
 

3568549C-1AD5-4474-93FD-5E0DE2A9FEAA.jpeg

Edited by SmokeStackLightning

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That’s pretty standard for modern MiJ SC

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On 4/8/2022 at 8:42 PM, Double 0 Soul said:

Could have been me, historically SC-MiA were never up to SC-MiJ quality.. some folks used to think the old MiA cords were fake they were that bad but this was 10 maybe 15yrs ago, things change, staff change, the recent offerings from the last few years look top notch to me.

Hmm my Sugarcanes have been fine but in 2013 I bought my first pair of SCs (2009s) in Take 5 Hong Kong and got one with a Made in USA patch instead of the usual "toughest denim". I emailed this to toyo and they ended up sending me the correct patch which I never used and some magazines and a bandana. Maybe some processes were done in Japan and then finished in the USA?

SlqGw8C.jpg

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I think you might be right there @mousemouse It's a strange notion isn't it...  to move a product from a country of meticulous manufacturing qualities to a country with lesser abilities and higher costs just to cash in on the kudos they no longer have... I'm not sure what dream folks are buying into? i see the same biz in the less artisan parts of the Sheffield cutlery industry where utensils and handles are imported as blanks, stick the handle on, polish it up and stamp 'Made in Sheffield' on the blade.

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Posted (edited)

fit on the white canes. slimmer than the wool-mix-ones I got. 
Thighs just work out, else they are great. Hope they stretch a bit in that area, but let's see. Else they are great :)
 

IMG_20220414_170754.jpg

IMG_20220414_170659.jpg

Edited by Thanks_M8

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Posted (edited)
On 4/13/2022 at 2:01 AM, SmokeStackLightning said:

Just got a pair of raw Okinawa in. Is the below a fault, or nothing to worry about? I’ve never noticed the orange thread at the crotch seam being off center like this before. 

Edit: I have them soaking now, the stitching seems solid and I won’t ever see the area, just curious. 
 

3568549C-1AD5-4474-93FD-5E0DE2A9FEAA.jpeg

Pretty standard, ‘modern’ assembly method for jeans.

the front panels and back panels are pre-assembled at the fly front and back crotch separately so that you end up with 2 bigger pieces for the final assembly. This allows for good handling of the back yokes or the the front pockets and fly front details.

the final assembly starts with the inseam from one hem to the other hem with a free-arm or arm-down 2/3 needle felled seam chain stitch machine - as a consequence the crotch seams between front part and back part don’t always align perfectly. Sometimes this can be deliberate for heavier denim as the number of folded layers of denim are tricky to sew over cleanly. The bar tack on top of this tricky area ‘bolts’ it down and gives extra strength.

with the front and back panels joint at the inseam to a single piece, the last bit of the final assembly is to chain stitch the outer seam and ironing the seams apart flat.

the very last part work is then hemming and waist belt assembly with belt loops attaching, bar tacking, etc.

Edited by Foxy2

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Edo Ai's size 30. These get the least time in my current rotation for a few reasons but just had them on for the last few weeks.

I'm a little torn on the denim itself, it's a bit more novelty than I tend to like but the color is nice in it's own way. The cut is more generous up top with more taper than I prefer usually, but it works well enough with some things 4-5 months total wear since purchased maybe 1.5 years ago - fades won't be great I'm sure because the overall color is lighter, but some are starting to set in regardless. It's nowhere close to as bad as some of the relaxed tapers out there but it still leans that way as a whole. The thing I don't love about the color is that it's trickier to match than normal jeans - it's too in between to not clash with a lot of tops or shoes.

My hope is that whenever these get the first wash - which is a ways out, they'll get regular ones after that and become a nice lighter colored jean eventually. These will probably be a many years thing to develop.  

eaback.jpg

eafront.jpg

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looks fantastic. 

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Is the SC 66 cut the same as Mister Freedom’s 64??

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@Ciabatta no, the MF64 has wider fit straight leg

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Got my 66’s from Hinoya today. Lighting fast shipping. These are the most perfect fitting jeans I think I’ve purchased in a loooong time. Now comes the tough decision of deciding on an inseam length. 

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@Ciabatta I bought a pair of 66's last week and had them hemmed in store. After a 30C soak in washing machine the inseam shrunk 5 cm (!) and they are too short for me to wear now. Too bad.

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@NilsLW were they raw or one wash when you bought them?

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@Maynard Friedman One wash. I was told they wouldn't shrink much and I believed them since my TCBs have in comparison barely shrunk at all after countless washes.

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2 hours ago, NilsLW said:

@Ciabatta I bought a pair of 66's last week and had them hemmed in store. After a 30C soak in washing machine the inseam shrunk 5 cm (!) and they are too short for me to wear now. Too bad.

This sounds nuts! :D

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