Full Count Denim Thread

[whackedout]

but again, if you live in the states it makes no sense to order from japan (if the line you want is carried in the USA). it sounds like you live in europe somewhere and have more choices so its not really a fair comparison. its these idiots who come on here and think arcs exist only in japan and then go to the trouble of ordering there with no way to return when they could have done the same thing here and had it in two days and could have exchanged that make me wonder if we are not slowly evolving into button pushing monkeys and forget to use your brain. if i lived in japan i wouldnt order a pair of fc from big because they are available locally. its the same thing. most of these new people are like bush 43 stupid.

Why is it that in every post your so negative? umadbro? You need to understand that it's their money, even if they can't return it, its on them. They take the loss and the time to sell the pair that doesn't fit. My loss is your gain. But what happens when big doesn't have my size?

[aho]

lol come on guys, it's just jeans! ;D

[ironheartfan123]

for the record, whatever123 and i have no relation (that i know of)

[Quoise1203]

Whatever dude, you have the same last name 😉

[Quoise1203]

I guess I'm not too far off either!

[Quoise1203]

I guess I'm not too far off either!

[garden gnomes in space]

LOL, I just realized Whatever123 was trolling my marketplace for sale in my signature. At least he's diversifying where he hates on things. Kudo's to an opportunistic hater, i kinda like him now.

[S-Town]

I think part of the reason I came over to SuFu was to get away from his ass over in SF. It's better over here, so maybe i should thank him? He loathes Self Edge and Kiya, worships Gordon and BiG, and considers you an enemy of the state for paying anything less than MSRP.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

... it sounds like you live in europe somewhere ...

correct, Germany is in Europe

edit: I agree that it would be really stupid to buy FC from BiG when you live in Japan as you would buy kinda re-imported. But if you know your size and you want to safe money, then ordering from Japan can be cheaper. Furthermore, and-Japan offers returns. So aren't fully fucked if the jeans don't fit.

edit2: I think we have derailed this thread enough now

Edited February 5, 2013 by beautiful_FrEaK

[Rightyow77]

Came to this thread to discuss fullcount's 1109XX....debating between these and a pair WhxBG 660. both have very similar measurements save the rise.

I'm assuming the 09XX denim on the FC is 15.5oz pre soak, which would bring it to 16oz post?

Apologies if this has already been discussed, and please ignore if that is the case.

TIA

Edited February 5, 2013 by Rightyow77

[beautiful_FrEaK]

The denim on the Fullcount XX is stated to be 15,5oz. I haven’t seen a statement if it’s pre-soak or post-soak. Some companies list the weight differently but I think I remember someone (Kiya?) saying that the weight is usually determined in its loomstate condition. If that’s the case you’ll end up with slightly above 16oz.

When making your decision you have plenty of examples how the WH660 will turn out. The ’newish’ Fullcount XX denim on the other hand is pretty undiscovered land.

[Rightyow77]

Yes you are right! I forgot to add the .5 shame*! Momotaro makes a 15.7oz denim found on their vintage label and copper label stuff which I know is not the same, but similar in weight. I've handled a pair of the 701s (VL) in person and loved them, the weave is super tight which is cool, but the denim on the FC looks more of what I was looking for. (slubby-ish)

Still undecided, but I am currently bidding on a Type I FC jacket and a WH type II. I plan to win at least one, if I win both these 1109XXs will have to wait a while.

p.s.Thanks again for the sizing advice on my S5000VX b_F, best fitting jeans I own at the moment. Love the rise and TB

[Sugar Mountain]

What I'm looking forward to is comparing the fading of the newer XX denim with the old BIG contest 15.5oz. I wonder how much difference we'll see?

[Sugar Mountain]

Also, that's interesting Rightyow77 that you compare Full Count and Momotaro. I've long been intrigued by the relationship between the two companies. As I understand it, Collect used to be the mill producing FC denim - perhaps it still is? BrownMetallic posted a good side by side shot of his 1108C and his 701 - both Zimbabwe denim, both around 15-16oz - and they are not massively different.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Sugar Mountain

[Rightyow77]

Yes i remember that post. I'm sure he (or any one else with both) could shed some more light on the feel of the denim side by side. But from what I can tell the XX denim seems to be more irregular than the the tighter weaved Momo. Of course the Vintage label denim does come to life after a long soak and I'm sure the Full Count does also. Would be interested in another side by side macro of the denim

[Sugar Mountain]

Well yes, there are similarities and differences. Care to shed some more light on the different dying techniques and threads?

[setterman]

not sure. but the yen is strengthing to the dollar (thus exports should be more) so i dont know. i haven't bought anythign from japan in long time. but what i do find miraculous if this dude can order a pair of jeans from japan and get them in 4 days something weird is going on. i ordered a pair of pierre hardy dress shoes from the main PH paris boutique and i do business with them all the time and they shipped the quickest way possible from paris to CA and it took 7 days. maybe japan is using superman for fc deliveries or something.

The yen is dropping, and 1108s from and-japan are at least $70 cheaper than ordering from BiG. And garden's (and BF's) 1108s fit like 1108s are supposed to fit.

[Mr-Bielby]

Random shots of my 0105's. I can confirm that these fit like shit

[Sugar Mountain]

well, i think Mikiharu was the one of, if not the first, to use zimb cotton and i beleive it goes through a slightly different process. in terms of dying, look at the color of the jeans ... it is different. fc has a different hue to it. but i don't personally dye either jeans so i cant tell you step by step how they differ. you follow?

Do you always need to end with a snide sign off? You told me that the denims may look similar but were actually very different and now you're saying you don't actually know what makes them different other than the appearance and some vague suppositions. Besides, my original post was about the relationship between the two companies and an interest in how close they are.

Moving on and as requested, you can quite easily compare the 1108 and 1109 cuts here:

http://www.fullcount.../C003/1109.html

http://www.fullcount.../C003/1108.html

Edited February 6, 2013 by Sugar Mountain

[Paul T]

Do you always need to end with a snide sign off? You told me that the denims may look similar but were actually very different and now you're saying you don't actually know what makes them different other than the appearance and some vague suppositions. Besides, my original post was about the relationship between the two companies and an interest in how close they are.

It's said that Rampuya, who make momotaro's denim, don't supply anyone else. This could be BS of course, there's a lot of it about. Full Count's early fabric, according to some reports, was made by Shinya (in Ibara) as well as Collect/Rampuya in Kojima.

If they both use Zimbabwe cotton there's a good chance, of course, that it comes from the same spinning company - I don't believe either mill spins its own yarn. It's very hard to make generalisations based on the mill, as even one mill can produce very different items. Their dyeing methods add one set of characteristics to the denim, but the source and especially the design of the yarn will have a huge effect on the look.

(Oh, and I agree about the snide sign offs, it's pretty pointless when people are only facing off with their respective google-abilities...)

Edited February 6, 2013 by Paul T

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I always love it, when real knowledge walks in!

[Sugar Mountain]

Great stuff Paul T, thanks. I had thought that Japan Blue Group did still produce denim for other brands (but probably not Japanese rivals). From a 2011 interview with Momotaro's Masahiro Suwaki:

A: So, will you tell us a little about the history and background of your company and Momotaro Jeans?

S:... Well, we started with jeans in Japan Our company's foundation is in textile manufacturing Our textiles have reached different parts of the globe now. For example, in America we sell our denim to Ralph Lauren and many other companies that seek high quality.

http://www.madewithj...momotaro-jeans/

Edit: Unless... it's Collect that continue to sell textiles to other brands and Rampuya manufactures Momotaro exclusively. A little confusing.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Sugar Mountain

[Paul T]

Yup, it's hard to know for sure; that's an interesting interview but the questions lead to vague marketing-style answers.

Collect certainly weren't the first to sell luxury denim overseas if they started in 1992 or 1993, as Kaihara were supplying selvage for Lee and Levi's reissues a couple of years earlier.

[devilish]

double.

Edited February 6, 2013 by devilish

[devilish]

not sure. but the yen is strengthing to the dollar (thus exports should be more) so i dont know. i haven't bought anythign from japan in long time. but what i do find miraculous if this dude can order a pair of jeans from japan and get them in 4 days something weird is going on. i ordered a pair of pierre hardy dress shoes from the main PH paris boutique and i do business with them all the time and they shipped the quickest way possible from paris to CA and it took 7 days. maybe japan is using superman for fc deliveries or something.

I don't want to get into this fight really but deliveries from Japan can take as little as 2 days to CA. Usually no more than 3-4. EMS ships to USPS overnight and USPS takes 1 or 2 days on average to get to final destination. My order from Lofgren only took 5 days total from payment to receipt of goods, shipping was 2 days.

[Sugar Mountain]

^^ Of course you are happy to continue! I would like your comments a lot more if you didn't try and insult everyone you address but I'm certainly not going to block you.

The BIG contest Full Count denim and Momotaro's Vintage Line do share characteristics: Both a similar weight, both Zimbabwe cotton, and the fading in side by side photos has shown to be comparable. There are differences too and that's why a little compare and contrast discussion on topics like this can be fun. No need to get heated up.

Be sure to post fit pics of your new 1108 when they arrive. You picked a great pair of jeans.

[big truck]

(Oh, and I agree about the snide sign offs, it's pretty pointless when people are only facing off with their respective google-abilities...)

I think Paul T has beautifully described a fairly large percentage of unpleasant people who ventilate on the internet.

[BrownMetallic]

they may "look" similar but are two totally different textures and have way different feels to them. two different dying techniques, threads, etc. and obviously wear/fade differently. momo does make some excellent stuff.

well, i think Mikiharu was the one of, if not the first, to use zimb cotton and i beleive it goes through a slightly different process. in terms of dying, look at the color of the jeans ... it is different. fc has a different hue to it. but i don't personally dye either jeans so i cant tell you step by step how they differ. you follow?

^^ Of course you are happy to continue! I would like your comments a lot more if you didn't try and insult everyone you address but I'm certainly not going to block you.

The BIG contest Full Count denim and Momotaro's Vintage Line do share characteristics: Both a similar weight, both Zimbabwe cotton, and the fading in side by side photos has shown to be comparable. There are differences too and that's why a little compare and contrast discussion on topics like this can be fun. No need to get heated up.

Be sure to post fit pics of your new 1108 when they arrive. You picked a great pair of jeans.

Yes i remember that post. I'm sure he (or any one else with both) could shed some more light on the feel of the denim side by side. But from what I can tell the XX denim seems to be more irregular than the the tighter weaved Momo. Of course the Vintage label denim does come to life after a long soak and I'm sure the Full Count does also. Would be interested in another side by side macro of the denim

.

.

'thought i'd take comparative pix of how certain Okayama-made denim' date=' no matter what brand or evo route you take them on, wind up with similar-looking hues/fades down the line[/b']. i suspect it's the kind of indigo grown & used in the region__ having similar dye properties.

.

denim is a hobby & a passion of mine, but don't have the academic/technical savvy as some of our esteemed members here possess. my comparison were purely based on personal experience & observation

true, for all intents & purposes, they did start out distinct. [with trained eyes] can readily set apart & identified. but, worn-in & stripped down to the basic [ie, faded denim], their commonality surfaces.

here are more photos. you make your own conclusions

Edited February 7, 2013 by BrownMetallic

[BrownMetallic]

con't:

back-side:

*ALL pix abovewere taken using only available light [no flash].

**Below photo was taken in direct sunlight.

***@weft-side of the Momo: still noticeable STAIN ["tea-stained" x2] .

Edited February 7, 2013 by BrownMetallic

[swapnakarna]

Awesome !!! thanks for it.