Shoes that look better with age...

[Topnotcher]

Not really aged but different to the original, my Alden Indy boots resoled by Masa (wornwellco on Instagram). FANTASTIC job! 

 

 

 

[Mtvare]

@Topnotcher

I'm interested to hear what you think about the Aldens? I've wanted a pair for a while but they've got even more expensive just recently and there seem to be a lot of people who think they've become a rip-off, in terms of materials and construction, as the price has escalated.

Anyone else's opinions appreciated too. Also about Viberg 2030 service boots in Chromexcel, which are actually cheaper than the Aldens these days. (Dunno if anyone thinks these two are similar but they fill the same kind of niche for me. )

[julian-wolf]

^ Viberg has seemed like a ripoff for a long time, as compared to similar boots from other PNW makers

[yung_flynn]

22 hours ago, Mtvare said:

@Topnotcher

I'm interested to hear what you think about the Aldens? I've wanted a pair for a while but they've got even more expensive just recently and there seem to be a lot of people who think they've become a rip-off, in terms of materials and construction, as the price has escalated.

Anyone else's opinions appreciated too. Also about Viberg 2030 service boots in Chromexcel, which are actually cheaper than the Aldens these days. (Dunno if anyone thinks these two are similar but they fill the same kind of niche for me. )

I personally don't have any Alden Indys, but the people that I know who do have them like them. I agree that current MSRP is a bit hard to swallow, although the pop-up on eBay with some frequency closer to $350-400. If I'm going to shell out on Alden shoes, I'd prefer their LHS loafers.

Rancourt (also MiUSA) and Grant Stone make quality and reasonably similar style boots as Alden closer to the $350-400 range. All 3 of these brands use similar Horween leathers as well so they're not skimping on materials quality. Rancourt boots can be had for closer to $200 if you can wait out for their pre-sale (definitely one in late summer, maybe in late winter too but I can't remember). Lead times are long though - I'm still waiting on my pre-order pair of Byron boots from August. They should arrive this month and I can post a few photos when they do.

 

[Duke Mantee]

13 hours ago, yung_flynn said:

I personally don't have any Alden Indys, but the people that I know who do have them like them. I agree that current MSRP is a bit hard to swallow, although the pop-up on eBay with some frequency closer to $350-400. If I'm going to shell out on Alden shoes, I'd prefer their LHS loafers.

Rancourt (also MiUSA) and Grant Stone make quality and reasonably similar style boots as Alden closer to the $350-400 range. All 3 of these brands use similar Horween leathers as well so they're not skimping on materials quality. Rancourt boots can be had for closer to $200 if you can wait out for their pre-sale (definitely one in late summer, maybe in late winter too but I can't remember). Lead times are long though - I'm still waiting on my pre-order pair of Byron boots from August. They should arrive this month and I can post a few photos when they do.

 

What are you currently wearing?

[yung_flynn]

4 hours ago, Duke Mantee said:

What are you currently wearing?

Currently it's not quite so cold yet and the lack of boots is not a big deal, so I'm getting buy with loafers and ranger mocs from Rancourt. Both are nice. Most of their shoes (and both of my pairs) tend to be chromexcel, same with Grant Stone, so they do crease easily but that's part of the charm to an extent for me 

I work in a lab though, so I have to wear safety shoes for a portion of the day anyway.

Edited December 9, 2023 by yung_flynn

[willi]

How do you like the size of your loafers compared to your mocs? Do you wear the same size on both lasts?

I have camp mocs in buckaroo that I like a lot. It's a great option for a casual American style.

[willi]

Here are my camp mocs in buckaroo. I don't think they make this model anymore. I'll add that I don't think Rancourt as a brand really competes with Alden, it's a very different product. The same is true of Grant Stone which I also like and own. If you want Aldens you really should just buy Aldens. I think their pricing is really reasonable and surprisingly stable considering how many other brands have reached upwards into the same tier. Especially if you are buying premium leathers. Aldens in shell are not much more expensive than Rancourts in shell.

[willi]

For example, Rancourt sells a tassel loafer in shell for 705: https://www.rancourtandcompany.com/collections/loafers/products/tassel-loafer-color-8-cordovan

The shoe is frankly not in good taste.

 

You can pay less for a more coherent Alden tassel loafer in suede: https://dashingchicago.com/products/alden-3403-snuff-suede-tassel-loafer

Of if you are committed to shell you can pay a little more to just get the genuine article: https://dashingchicago.com/products/alden-563-color-8-shell-cordovan-tassel-loafer

 

Not a big knock on Rancourt, I am a fan of the brand, but Alden's pricing is very reasonable for what you get. They sell a more premium product that demands a higher price point. Definitely not a rip off.

[Duke Mantee]

14 hours ago, willi said:

For example, Rancourt sells a tassel loafer in shell for 705: https://www.rancourtandcompany.com/collections/loafers/products/tassel-loafer-color-8-cordovan

The shoe is frankly not in good taste.

 

You can pay less for a more coherent Alden tassel loafer in suede: https://dashingchicago.com/products/alden-3403-snuff-suede-tassel-loafer

Of if you are committed to shell you can pay a little more to just get the genuine article: https://dashingchicago.com/products/alden-563-color-8-shell-cordovan-tassel-loafer

 

Not a big knock on Rancourt, I am a fan of the brand, but Alden's pricing is very reasonable for what you get. They sell a more premium product that demands a higher price point. Definitely not a rip off.

I’d send these back - finishing is atrocious and it worries me the seller has used these pics insofar as it’s possible he thinks the standard of build is good.

I’ve owned 2 pairs of Alden shoes - one pair similar to the D2614 but with a raised seam on the moc toe which had the seam on different positions so it didn’t look a pair, the other was a plain tie blucher and the sole needed replacing within weeks.

My experiences with these mean I’d never buy another of pair of Alden’s.

I bought a pair of Rancourt beef rolls many years ago while I was working in the US - a colleague recommended them. They were heavily reduced in a sale. They were probably worth the sale price; I wasn’t really impressed but they were comfortable for the office. I’m pretty sure their shoes are Blake stitched, so that goes some way to keeping their prices down.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Duke Mantee

[l13902733261]

I'd go with J.M Weston within that price range, although Alden have the better looking last.

Edited December 10, 2023 by l13902733261

[Geeman]

I've looked (online) at JMW and although the lasts look great but I  always think they look ...cheap? I don't know why.

[MJF9]

I've only looked at JMW a little but the ones I saw looked clunky, even in the dress shoes

[buler]

If you are thinking about buying Alden's, or any other big name boots, check out Rose Anvil on youtube. He cuts boots in half to examine their materials and construction. The Alden Indy video may be enlightening.

 

 

[mlwdp]

Not a fan of Rose Anvil.  Very biased.

[yung_flynn]

On 12/9/2023 at 11:58 AM, willi said:

How do you like the size of your loafers compared to your mocs? Do you wear the same size on both lasts?

I have camp mocs in buckaroo that I like a lot. It's a great option for a casual American style.

I'm a 12D in the loafers and 13B in the mocs. Rancourt customer service helped with sizing. Brannock is 13B. My feet are a bit wonky though - both are almost completely flat and my left is a full brannock size shorter than the right - so take my advice and experience with that in mind. Their lasts seem to work well for my feet which can be a challenge. Both were only about $120 new at their pre-sale too and at that price I can't complain, nicer than most options in that price range. Paying the full $320 MSRP may have been a different story though.

I agree with your thoughts on the shell though. If I'm going to pay for shell, I'd rather just grab the Alden LHS. Rancourt's are a bit rough and ready in styling in my experience, which isn't a bad thing for chromexcel and some of their moc-styled option but sort of defeats the purpose of buying shell for loafers. I'm not a huge fan of Rancourt's full strap and weltline loafers. The extra couple of hundred dollars for Alden is definitely worth it for those. I do like their more rugged offerings though (boots, mocs, beefrolls, etc.). I live in a more rugged place though, so the moc stylings work pretty well here.

Edited December 10, 2023 by yung_flynn

[Duke Mantee]

1 hour ago, mlwdp said:

Not a fan of Rose Anvil.  Very biased.

I’ve never heard of him until @buler posted that vid 

Do you think what he says is technically correct despite being biased? Watching that Alden vid is pretty damning regarding the quality.

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

2 hours ago, mlwdp said:

Not a fan of Rose Anvil.  Very biased.

Never heard of it, but sans judgements, the facts in that video are interesting, and definitely don't make me regret never purchasing Alden. Not that I will ever spend that much on any shoe anyways. Where do you think the bias lies? 

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I think it has something to do with Thursday Boots which are kinda affiliate with him (correct my grammar please)

[willi]

The rose anvil review misrepresents the intent of the boot by reducing its value to a sum of parts, as if buying a shoe is equivalent to shopping for a table saw. First of all, cultural value matters. Alden is the most iconic American clothing brand still manufactured in the USA. The styles are timeless. The quality hasn't meaningfully changed in decades. Again, if you want Aldens, there's really no alternative. Grant Stone has comparable styles but is manufactured (well) in China with trendy leathers that cater to a younger audience.

The review also sensationalizes a number of points or presents opinion as fact. The rebuttal here is good and makes the points better than I could: https://100wears.com/in-defense-of-the-alden-indy/

 

 

[buler]

2 hours ago, Duke Mantee said:

I’ve never heard of him until @buler posted that vid 

Do you think what he says is technically correct despite being biased? Watching that Alden vid is pretty damning regarding the quality.

@Duke Mantee, I take pretty much everything on the internet with a grain of salt. I think when the boots are cut in half and the materials used are layed out for all to see, it's up to each person to judge the quality and value.

I know that he has shown some interesting construction shortcuts that many of the makers have used. If I'm buying something for $100s or $1000s of dollars, I'm going to look into all of the details before shelling out money.

I also want to point out I have no affiliation with Rose Anvil and no grudge against Alden. Just giving people another piece of input.

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

"Cultural value" is the biggest way any brand tries to mark up the shit out of their products. I won't say it's not actual value, but I will say it has no correlation to the cost of labor, materials, and logistics. It's horseshit when factored into msrp. 

That doesn't mean the Aldens are objectively overpriced - that's in the eye of the buyer - but if there is similar labor, materials etc in another shoe then you can figure Alden is likely goosing their msrp by more and trading on their name, and it's up to an individual if they want to pay the extra if the last is really perfect for them, or if they really want the name or whatever. It's why LVC is such a ripoff imo, unless, for whatever reason, as some have argued, the cut is just magic for you when nothing else is.

The leather itself on the pair reviewed is enough to turn me off - I'm not much of a boot guy but I hate that sort of finish and it really does look cheap imo. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by AlientoyWorkmachine

[Duke Mantee]

2 hours ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

I think it has something to do with Thursday Boots which are kinda affiliate with him (correct my grammar please)

Yes - correct ✅ 

[willi]

One might argue that the existence of cultural value is evidenced by a hobbyist forum dedicated to importing premium denim from Japan.

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

48 minutes ago, willi said:

One might argue that the existence of cultural value is evidenced by a hobbyist forum dedicated to importing premium denim from Japan.

Sure - but one does not pay for that.

I never said cultural value doesn't exist - only that as an "intangible" it is a standing to divorce actual product from cost of production when coming up with msrp. It's no different than what the luxury brands - that often offer an inferior product at three to five (or more) times the price of some retailers referenced on this forum - trade on. 

[l13902733261]

9 hours ago, willi said:

One might argue that the existence of cultural value is evidenced by a hobbyist forum dedicated to importing premium denim from Japan.

Such value should be cherish within their own factory, not used for exploiting their overly tolerant customers.

[Mtvare]

I had seen that video and it was one of the things that put me off. But from my relatively brief review of his videos, it seems he says most boots are crap? (I'm not interested enough in the technical side of it to watch a lot of that content.)

[Maynard Friedman]

Even if other expensive/similarly-priced boots are built from similar, average quality materials, then as far as I’m concerned, it doesn’t justify the price (“they’re charging $X so we will too”). Instead it makes me think there’s a bit of price fixing going on here and I’ll think very carefully before I buy.

[Rob060]

12 hours ago, Mtvare said:

I had seen that video and it was one of the things that put me off. But from my relatively brief review of his videos, it seems he says most boots are crap? (I'm not interested enough in the technical side of it to watch a lot of that content.)

He's a big fan of PNW boots like White's/Nicks's. Never really seemed biased. Never seen him even mention Thursday boots.

[mpukas]

I've been watching Rose Anvil for a couple of years. Weston Kay started out as a leather worker, making leather goods and accessories. Somehow he got into cutting footwear in half to see how they were made, and give his thoughts of the quality of materials, construction, marketing, and cost. At first, he didn't know much about footwear construction, but has educated himself considerably. From what I've seen, he's not affiliated or sponsored by any brand, including Thursday (he's done several reviews cutting them). He does do a lot of collaborations now, particularly with Nick's and recently White's. He gets footwear sent to him from many brands to cut in half and review, and he always discloses what has been sent to him and what he's bought. He's spent a considerable sum of his own funds, derived from the channel income, no doubt. 

Re: Alden Indy boots quality and cost - "cultural value" is a load of F'g BS. If someone finds their boots valuable enough to spend what they're currently asking, and enjoys them for what they are, then that's their choice. But when their materials are evaluated for cost and quality, and compared to other brands, they are vastly over priced. When I joined this forum 10 years ago and started learning more about footwear, the Indy's had just gone up in price considerably. Members hear were saying that not that long prior they were sub $300. At that time I recall they were $505. Now they're $655???!!! WTF???!!! F' that!!! Even with inflation, those boots still aren't worth the asking price, even if they are considered a refined "dress boot" and not a work boot. 

Grant Stone may be made in China, however they're made by some of the better shoe makers anywhere. The father of the brothers who founded Grant Stone used to work for Alden for decades, and was fundamental in their footwear designs (it's obvious as many details are almost exact copies of Alden's. Now, are they Alden's original details?). The quality of materials, details and craftsmanship of their Diesel boot is superior to the Indy, in my experience. 

Saying all that, what are other comparable brands, besides Grant Stone? Maybe Tricker's, or another UK maker? Thursday look like lower quality. There have to be others that I can't think of right now.