Full Count Denim Thread

[noobedloser]

Just bought some FC 15.5oz 1108xx jeans. Does the denim naturally have a soft feel and even after a wash/dry? I was expecting a little bit more stiffness.

mine are arc and tabless

[Hopethisoneisnttaken]

I don’t know specifically about said model but that the case with Zimbabwean cotton a lot of the time. 

[unorthodox]

11 hours ago, noobedloser said:

Just bought some FC 15.5oz 1108xx jeans. Does the denim naturally have a soft feel and even after a wash/dry? I was expecting a little bit more stiffness.

mine are arc and tabless

Yes the Zimbabwe cotton is extremely soft and comfortable. Nearly no break in period when I started wearing my 1109xx. You can wash and hang dry to get a bit of stiffness but it will be nice and soft again in no time. 

[Ciabatta]

Prices went up on Bears site… looks like $300+ for a new pair everywhere now. 

[Talan]

15 minutes ago, Ciabatta said:

Prices went up on Bears site… looks like $300+ for a new pair everywhere now. 

Are you sure? Just checked Bears site, 0105 is JPY 26,180 which is closer to $200. 

[Ciabatta]

When you change currency to USD it goes up. 1101 are $308.  I feel like it use to be about $190 

[nick682]

8 minutes ago, Ciabatta said:

When you change currency to USD it goes up. 1101 are $308.  I feel like it use to be about $190 

They are nice jeans, but not worth $300.  They were definitely under $200 just recently. 

[Talan]

32 minutes ago, Ciabatta said:

When you change currency to USD it goes up. 1101 are $308.  I feel like it use to be about $190 

Bears sells 1101 for JPY 26,180:

https://www.bears-shimokita.com/SHOP/fullcount-1101.html

JPY 26,180 is USD 196.29:

 

[nick682]

16 minutes ago, Talan said:

Bears sells 1101 for JPY 26,180:

https://www.bears-shimokita.com/SHOP/fullcount-1101.html

JPY 26,180 is USD 196.29:

 

https://bears-tokyo.myshopify.com/collections/full-count

Change the currency to USD and you will see the $308.  This is a very recent change. 

 

[nick682]

I asked bears if the price went up for US customers and they said "I don't know if the price increase is for specific customers. However, we had to change the amount to what the manufacturer wanted. Please understand. Thank you."

[Talan]

5 hours ago, nick682 said:

https://bears-tokyo.myshopify.com/collections/full-count

Change the currency to USD and you will see the $308.  This is a very recent change. 

 

Yes, I can see a different price on this link. So Bears have one price for overseas customers and a different price for domestic customers? That's funny. I've been buying from Japanese stores at the price listed in Yen with paypal invoice. At the very least I would try to look in other stores if I was going to buy FC now. By the way, okayamadenim sells 1101 for USD 240 shipping included.

[Jared_Lee]

On 12/27/2022 at 11:37 AM, JDelage said:

I've never owned FC. What are the pro's and con's of the "heavy ounce" vs regular denim? They seem quite close in weight actually, the "heavy ounce" being quite reasonable at 15.5oz...?

Hey, I saw this question never really got addressed. I've never broken in the 15.5oz, but I've owned it (Signet 0105 collab) and tried it on in the newest 0105 version. It's more like a standard weight from other brands. Not dissimilar to the TCB 50s or Warehouse 14.5oz WWII denim. It's raw and one-wash color is darker than the 13.5oz, less warm caste.

But those all stand in stark contrast to the standard 13.5oz Fullcount fabric. That fabric is unlike any other in how soft it is in one-wash and how it drapes brand new. That's what sets it apart for me. I want jeans that feel butter soft after six months of constant wear. With all the others, I still find them pretty stiff and requiring a fresh "break-in" after every wash. With the 13.5oz they're just as easy as you'd like on day one and after six months.

Hope that helps!

[Geeman]

OD's pricing hasn't changed yet

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Funny enough, if I change the country to Japan it shows a price of 40,000¥ now so something is strange over there at BEARS. 

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Naoki from BEARS confirmed it, Full Count requested them to sell FC items at a higher price for overseas customers. I guess other shops will follow or stop selling FC overseas.

Now the question: which brands will follow this route in the future? FC is not the first but will probably not be the last.

Edited January 16, 2023 by beautiful_FrEaK

[Talan]

6 hours ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

Naoki from BEARS confirmed it, Full Count requested them to sell FC items at a higher price for overseas customers. I guess other shops will follow or stop selling FC overseas.

Now the question: which brands will follow this route in the future? FC is not the first but will probably not be the last.

If other shops will follow, it will make my decision to buy or not to buy 0105 easier. Not to buy 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Talan

[Broark]

So at current Yen / USD exchange rates we're talking about a ~56% price hike for any JP retailer selling to westerners.
Add another nail in the coffin for Full Count if you ask me. Plenty of other brands out there making product just as good (if not better) at a better price.
Hell, even one man brands aren't charging ¥40,000 for their jeans.

I know I've been pretty outspoken about my stance on all of this, but there's not much of an angle I can see for debate in support of this.
They're probably trying to protect some of their international retailers, which is completely understandable. But I think most potential customers will likely start to look elsewhere.

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

I was on the fence about 0105's as my pair for this year - I've been looking for wider jeans (still undecided atm.) I actually ordered a pair from OD a few weeks ago only for them to tell me they didn't actually have my size in stock (it was listed as in stock.) I gave up there. I'm not as knowledgeable as some of you, but the wider cut with repro details/cotton construction does seem to be a fairly unique offering FC has right now - which is why I found the hiked price of 240 tolerable to begin with. 

I don't begrudge FC trying to make their money - it seems that for some their denim in and of itself is sort of a unicorn (for me the cut dimensions were the biggest draw), and that might be why they feel they can charge what they're asking now - but it still just feels steep for what they are compared to what else is out there. It's a substantial price hike, but in real dollars I'm not sure it's as bad - Japanese jeans have essentially gotten cheaper by comparison in the last ~2 years with western inflation as it was. That said, this is less of a turn off to me than the lawsuit thing - and I've even mellowed my take on that. I don't know what their margins are but raising prices is often the only way for small businesses to stay in business. Sometimes it's greed - hard to make that call unless you know the books. 

[beautiful_FrEaK]

This is not a price hike in a classic sense I think, it's a move to stop Japanese shops with the weak yen to undercut the Western retailers.
I understand Western retailers are happy about this so they can sell FC but Japanese shops are not so happy about it as  they lose a market.

Wasn't it PBJ who did something similar years ago to protect their overseas retailers?

Regarding the 0105, you could check other shops and see if they have them in stock. Celluloid for example has some sizes in stock and the price still seems like the old one (they probably don't have as many overseas customers).

[pomata]

I guess there will be more work for the proxies

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

1 hour ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

This is not a price hike in a classic sense I think, it's a move to stop Japanese shops with the weak yen to undercut the Western retailers.
I understand Western retailers are happy about this so they can sell FC but Japanese shops are not so happy about it as  they lose a market.

Wasn't it PBJ who did something similar years ago to protect their overseas retailers?

Regarding the 0105, you could check other shops and see if they have them in stock. Celluloid for example has some sizes in stock and the price still seems like the old one (they probably don't have as many overseas customers).

Yea I know - but I'm just saying at least some of the price could be explained that way. I did check celluloid too last week but they don't have my size (30). I checked a number of shops - I'm sure not all of them - but it's enough to shrug and move on. I get the frustration about it all - it's a larger argument about trade IMO. I see both sides. I always want to pay less but as a freelancer who is always fighting to get fair pay for the work I am sympathetic to what small business often go through - everyone gets mad when things cost more but sometimes they need to in the long run to keep doing the work. Idk FC's books, but it's possible demand has lessened domestically and gotten greater overseas (but still gone down in total) and this is the move that makes them sustainable - or some other situation like that. 

[Maynard Friedman]

It may be due to complaints from oversea retailers or contract stipulations about domestic retailers selling abroad in order to allow overseas retailers to make a profit once they’ve factored in customs, shipping, etc. I don’t think it makes a different to Full Count if their wholesale price is the same to domestic and foreign retailers as the overall sales volumes would remain the same. I’d guess that the vast majority of their market is in Japan and only a fraction is overseas,

[MJF9]

^ unless they see higher growth coming from overseas and want to maximise future volumes

Edited January 16, 2023 by MJF9

[beautiful_FrEaK]

17 hours ago, pomata said:

I guess there will be more work for the proxies

Unless they do it like Iron Heart and forbid to sell their products to proxy services. I don't know how effective that works in real life though  

[Talan]

On the other hand, there will always be people who will readily buy a product just because it has moved into a higher price category. 

[ColonelAngus]

2 hours ago, Talan said:

On the other hand, there will always be people who will readily buy a product just because it has moved into a higher price category. 

True, but I’m assuming that pool of consumers is dwindling. I understand that companies will do what they have to to stay afloat but it could also backfire and not give them the financial boost they need. It’s hard enough to get consumers to dish out $200+ for denim let alone $300+.  

[unorthodox]

1 hour ago, ColonelAngus said:

True, but I’m assuming that pool of consumers is dwindling. I understand that companies will do what they have to to stay afloat but it could also backfire and not give them the financial boost they need. It’s hard enough to get consumers to dish out $200+ for denim let alone $300+.  

I've actually been thinking on this and have a different take. I feel like the amount of people willing to spend $200+ or $300+ for denim online has gone down for sure BUT I feel like the amount of physical stores that offer these products has gone up (at least in America). So I feel like I am starting to see more casuals willing to spend the premium on denim if/when they go into one of those retailers to touch/see/feel the difference. Also when an option like J.Crew are now $130 a pair, it seems like less of a leap to spend $250 especially when that option is available in your city to try on and knowledge staff is explaining to you the difference. 

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

Yea, I’d like to see some data but it wouldn’t surprise me. The local contemporary men’s shop in town here - far from any sort of shopping mecca - sells Orslow at retail (I think about 250$) as their main denim, and I think they do pretty well with it. 

[tooth]

On 1/16/2023 at 7:23 AM, AlientoyWorkmachine said:

I was on the fence about 0105's as my pair for this year - I've been looking for wider jeans (still undecided atm.) 

I'd suggest checking out the Buzz Rickson's that Self Edge just got in. I was in Portland over Christmas and picked up a pair when they were released. Great denim - pretty sure it's a new denim developed by Sugar Cane. Nice wide cut, but not overly so and they drape very well. Tons of options out there, but if you want something a bit different give them a look. 

[ColonelAngus]

Some denim companies have done quite well scaling internationally for sure. But we’ve also seen inflation run amok on goods and services. At some point prices will continue to go up, especially when you look at Japan’s aging work force with not many to replace them. It’s just like blue collar labor in America. Those jobs are in high demand and pay well but the pool of labor to replace them at retirement is quite low.
 

I just think if denim companies reach a point where they’re charging $400 or $500 for jeans then consumers are going to stop buying, or at the very least scale back on spending. There are still brands charging $250 or less, so there’s still a market out there. My two cents, which is worthless