Sugar Cane Denim

[indigoeagle]

I think, the confustion stems from the following.
One assumes, that 66 model refers to Levis 501XX made in the year 1966 as a blue print.
Howeve it seems, that the definition is that the 501s produced from 1973 to 1980 are referred to as “66”.
The name comes from the fact that “© 1966” was printed on the flasher.
The 66 model is again subdivided into first half and second half models.

Same same, but different is the Big E- model.
This refers to the 501s produced from the late 1960s to 1973.
After the Big E the red tab showed “LeVI’S”.
Also the lot number was changed from “501XX” to “501”.

According to this Japanese Denim somelier "mtk0058" among others the v stitch at the top button was used until 1969 and the parallel stitch from 1969/1970 onwards.

There were also changes in the arcuate stitch colours and a switch from from back pocket hidden rivets to bartacking.

So, I guess, when a 66 model is offered it can be one with Big E, first half 66 and second half 66 characteristics. And the cuts were probably also changing over the years.

Clearest would probably be the following three models:

1. Big E with parallel stitches 1969-1973
2. 66 first half model and
3. 66 second half model

There are probably other theories about this. But this is the info I had found on the insta of mtk0058 and in this article.

[CharlieMike]

Il y a 2 heures, Maynard Friedman a déclaré :

@CharlieMikeJe pense qu'en termes de discussion sur le SC66, il n'y a pas de vérité objective sur la vérité sur la façon dont il est vrai pour l'original. Demandez à une autre personne et vous obtiendrez une réponse différente basée sur sa propre compréhension subjective de ce qui constitue une coupe de 66 (y a-t-il vraiment une telle chose de toute façon ?) et à quel point le modèle SC est proche de réaliser cela. Ils ne font aucun doute que ce que quelqu'un chez Sugar Cane/Toyo croit être représentatif de cette époque doit donc être basé sur quelque chose. Si vous acceptez que le SC66 soit dans ce stade et que vous aimez la coupe, les mesures, le denim et les détails, alors cela vaut probablement la peine d'y aller. Si ce n'est pas le cas, continuez à chercher...

Thanks, that's not wrong. The SC model looks well made. I'll probably try it.

[silencejoe]

Here is the mid 66s levis for your reference

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

For what it's worth, I think the idea of trying to find the truest repro of any given model is sort of a journey into the abyss. Different details matter more to different makers and the emphasis may be in different places. The cut of a single pair varied in any given year they were made, and different makers can have true vintage pairs of a given model made on the same day and still extrapolate a pattern that would yield different fits for different sizes. It's one of those the sum of the parts is greater than the whole sorts of things - if you drill down deep enough you will find inconsistencies in just about any of the best ones out there (again, where you find them is dependent on what your own biases are), and at that point you're missing the forest for the trees. 

If one of the trusted brands releases a model that is a direct repro I am going to trust that the of course it will have their own spin on it, but they are being faithful to it in all the ways that matter most to them. The make or break - I would think - is whether or not you like the fit - that matters a lot more than a V stitch. 

Edited February 27 by AlientoyWorkmachine

[CharlieMike]

@indigoeagle Thank you for these explanations and this clarification. I found some matching information in this link: https://www.heddels.com/2016/11/vintage-levis-501-jeans-the-ultimate-collectors-guide/

[CharlieMike]

@silencejoe Thank you for the photos.

[julian-wolf]

Don’t pay too much mind to that Heddels article. Information was never their strong suit. If you’re interested in Levi’s history, there are actual books you can read.

[CharlieMike]

@julian-wolf Do you have any recommendations for a book or article on the web on the subject? I have the famous book "501 XX A Collection of vintage jeans".

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Roughly one month in

[tooth]

Just noticed that Barnstormer has the 1946 ‘Super Denim Collectible’ back in stock… some sizes sold out. Makes me wonder / think other shops should / will be getting a restock shortly(?).

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Yes, tomorrow there will be a last restock of that model. Probably accross the shops.

[Talan]

SC49007 (1946) restock -- turned up in a few shops (Barnstormer, etc) but in one-wash only. Anyone seen a shop with restock in non-wash?

[vIGGiou riou]

14 minutes ago, Talan said:

SC49007 (1946) restock -- turned up in a few shops (Barnstormer, etc) but in one-wash only. Anyone seen a shop with restock in non-wash?

I scored just now one pair of SC49007 in NON wash version at Hinoya store https://hinoya.shop/en-ch/collections/sugar-cane/products/sc49007?variant=44502862332139

I took size W34 and it was in that size last pair....

Edited March 9 by vIGGiou riou

[indigoeagle]

32 minutes ago, Talan said:

SC49007 (1946) restock -- turned up in a few shops (Barnstormer, etc) but in one-wash only. Anyone seen a shop with restock in non-wash?

I think you want. a 36, no?

Anyway

Stlll many sizes.

 

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/earthmarket/sc49007

[MJF9]

The 1943 denim looks especially sweet in the photos on secondsunrise.se 

(rubs hands in anticipation)

[Talan]

44 minutes ago, indigoeagle said:

I think you want. a 36, no?

Anyway

Stlll many sizes.

 

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/earthmarket/sc49007

Thank you!

[CharlieMike]

Hello, I need some advice on model 1947 (standard) from Sugar Cane. I have never worn SG jeans, I have doubts about the size, what size do you advise me to take? I wear W33 in Resolute, W33 in Warehouse and W32 in Denime (by WH). Does the fabric stretch a lot? Another question, I saw that the jeans were sold One Wash at certain retailers, but the fabric seems almost raw, do you know if it reduces further with washing in the washing machine? Thank you in advance for your help.

[indigoeagle]

17 minutes ago, CharlieMike said:

Hello, I need some advice on model 1947 (standard) from Sugar Cane. I have never worn SG jeans, I have doubts about the size, what size do you advise me to take? I wear W33 in Resolute, W33 in Warehouse and W32 in Denime (by WH).
Does the fabric stretch a lot?
Another question, I saw that the jeans were sold One Wash at certain retailers, but the fabric seems almost raw, do you know if it reduces further with washing in the washing machine? Thank you in advance for your help.

I normally wear a 34 in most, 36 in Resolute.
The 47 is generally smaller fitting. So for me 36 would be recommended, thus for you I'd say 34.You might get away with a 32, but it could be tight. Not sure.
edit: I just saw, that there is also a W33 availble. That might your best option.

Some retailers have the 47 in non/wash.
I didn't find them very stretchy. But of course the o/w will stretch quite a bit in waist.

Edited March 9 by indigoeagle

[CharlieMike]

On 3/9/2024 at 3:53 PM, indigoeagle said:

I normally wear a 34 in most, 36 in Resolute.
The 47 is generally smaller fitting. So for me 36 would be recommended, thus for you I'd say 34.You might get away with a 32, but it could be tight. Not sure.
edit: I just saw, that there is also a W33 availble. That might your best option.

Some retailers have the 47 in non/wash.
I didn't find them very stretchy. But of course the o/w will stretch quite a bit in waist.

@indigoeagle Thanks for the advice, I will indeed take size W33.

[CharlieMike]

On 2/27/2024 at 1:37 PM, indigoeagle said:

I think, the confustion stems from the following.
One assumes, that 66 model refers to Levis 501XX made in the year 1966 as a blue print.
Howeve it seems, that the definition is that the 501s produced from 1973 to 1980 are referred to as “66”.
The name comes from the fact that “© 1966” was printed on the flasher.
The 66 model is again subdivided into first half and second half models.

Same same, but different is the Big E- model.
This refers to the 501s produced from the late 1960s to 1973.
After the Big E the red tab showed “LeVI’S”.
Also the lot number was changed from “501XX” to “501”.

According to this Japanese Denim somelier "mtk0058" among others the v stitch at the top button was used until 1969 and the parallel stitch from 1969/1970 onwards.

There were also changes in the arcuate stitch colours and a switch from from back pocket hidden rivets to bartacking.

So, I guess, when a 66 model is offered it can be one with Big E, first half 66 and second half 66 characteristics. And the cuts were probably also changing over the years.

Clearest would probably be the following three models:

1. Big E with parallel stitches 1969-1973
2. 66 first half model and
3. 66 second half model

There are probably other theories about this. But this is the info I had found on the insta of mtk0058 and in this article.

@indigoeagle I found this site which is interesting for historical information: https://denimarchieves.com/e/index.html

[AnOldFolkSong]

One of the better sites ive seen since levisguide went under.

[CharlieMike]

7 hours ago, AnOldFolkSong said:

One of the better sites ive seen since levisguide went under.

I think it's great, it's real archival work. I wonder why the 501 XX is missing.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

After more than 2 weeks of shipping inside Germany, my 1943 arrived. Here some measurements. 

Rest will follow when I have time and better light .

 

Size 34x34

One-wash
Waist: 34"
Front rise: 13.25"
Back rise: 16.5"
Thighs: 13.75"
Knee: 9.75"
Leg opening: 9.375"
Inseam: 34.4"

[JohnM]

^ b-F, looks like the 1943 has the same waist as the 1946, but a higher rise (especially in front) and more room just about everywhere else, except the waist.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Exactly, which makes sense they both being a W34. IIRC the measurements of BEARS and Sugar Cane say the 43 would be 1 cm bigger in the waist but I couldn't find that.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

The colour difference is not as strong as some other pictures make you believe. But the 1943 is definitely darker

[indigoeagle]

How would you compare the fit/cut?

And thickness, texture of the denim?

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Well, they are simply more roomy. The rise is not so much but the legs.

Denim feels similar in thickness. Of course, it's more rigid now and that can influence the feel. It has more vertical slub/texture.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

And a little photo bomb before they go to the stash

[indigoeagle]

The slanted coin pocket is cool.

Is that shrink wrapped?
Best storage option?