Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[cmboland]

Yup, that and #rawfies.

I guess what it boils down to is my issue with reddit as a whole, and it's just applied to something I'm interested in.

So it annoys me more than reddit overall.

I still go back and read the older threads here because there's so much info, that's what got me to start an account here in the first place.

I wish all the images were still around.

Personally I share a lot of gripes you all do but I'm trying to steer that sub reddit in a better direction anyway I can with any contributions I can. I do understand and agree with most of what everyone is saying but I can't fully chastise it

[Iron Horse]

Every time a redditor calls another redditor an "internet pants friend" god kills a kitten

 

Reminds me of this:

 

[garden gnomes in space]

While I'm on it, Denimbro.

 

I mean what the fuck.

im with you man.  I dont get it either.  I tried to understand, just couldnt.  Same with the Iron Heart forum.  Ive never felt more left out because I wasnt ride or die for a single brand than I did over there.  Christ

[exaptavist]

. 

Edited October 10, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Max Power]

Man, I haven't even looked once at reddit. Should I?

[Blue Nemo]

Reminds me of this:

 

 

 

 

the breakfast club is an awesome movie, one of my all time favs and i havn't even watched it as a kid or teen....

you man, have no right, to destroy this movie in any way!!

 

you can do this to the upcoming remake!

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Not if you wanna stay sane

And...no..you are too old for that stuff

[Blue Nemo]

art knows no age1

 

 

and you, tall one, you better shelter the kid inside of you! 

 

[Max Power]

If I look at the above picture I should choose 4chan, whaqtever that is.

[chicote]

The last times I have posted on reddit have been to sell jeans (although hardly anything that's not slim-tapered has drawn any interest) and occasionally to answer some basic questions. Nothing has piqued my interest beyond that in months of sporadic, maybe biweekly, checking.

 

In my opinion, reddit seems to draw together a perfect storm of youth (in the posting demographic), temporality (in the structure of the site and its threads) and a sort of desperate culture (for approval, for inclusion) that I believe is inherent to the site itself.

 

In studies of nationalism, nations are sometimes thought of as "imagined communities"--imagined in the sense that a modern nation does not at all resemble the traditional idea of a community, yet it is thought of by its citizens as resembling one. No Canadian, for example, knows all of their fellow citizens, much less agrees with them on most issues of importance to the wellbeing of the "community"--beliefs regarding economics, politics, religion, social and environmental welfare, for example--whereas general agreement on these issues are often essential to the functioning of any smaller community. In place of these agreements, nations instill in their citizens ideas like 'culture' and 'patriotism', which only hold their relevance when put into the context of nationalism, and do nothing to develop the values essential for real communal development. Put more eloquently by philosopher Ernest Renan: "L'essence d'une nation est que tous les individus aient beaucoup de choses en commun, et aussi que tous aient oublié bien des choses."

 

The reason I bring this up is because I feel that Reddit (and specifically the raw denim subreddit) exemplifies the idea of an "imagined community". It represents an enormous, diverse mass of people and ideas, a group far too large and ideologically divided to be considered a real community. People who post on the raw denim subreddit, which right now has nearly 25,000 members, are essentially speaking to a room (a stadium, really) full of strangers. Hundreds of topics are created there weekly, as has been mentioned, purely for self-conscious "fit checks" and asinine questions that are often answered with triteness and misinformation. But what would you expect, when nobody there knows anything about anybody else? I'm exaggerating; there are a handful of well-known posters who speak up, offer their (generally more accurate) knowledge and work to contribute to the experience of other members, but it is often a one-way street. These posters seem to become the blind idols of thousands of faceless others, who shower them with likes, compliments and questions while rarely offering any of their own content.

 

Of course, this scenario plays out similarly in real life: put somebody in a room full of thousands of strangers and expect them to begin to interact with the community at large... It probably won't happen. Then amplify that by the fact that many of these posters only see posts by well-liked and knowledgeable members of the community, thanks to the structure of reddit's voting system, where usually only the first and most clever posts rise quickly to the top. Then add that anything somebody posts is viewable--and able to be voted upon--by everybody in this ~25,000 person community, and the stakes suddenly become much higher, especially when there are many separate comment threads under a single post. Given that the average reddit user is young and relatively new to denim, and combined with the anxiety and inferiority likely felt as a result of the previous two factors, it is my belief (and experience, years back) that most users feel they have nothing valuable to contribute to the community as a whole. In conjunction with reddit's culture, which involves a fair bit of jousting for votes with the same tired in-jokes and click-baiting titles, two obvious options are open for the remaining users who want to become 'accepted' into the community: 1) ask questions until you can learn enough to offer your own advice; and 2) make jokes and tell stories until you become popular enough to be recognized. But it is often by sheer blind luck that either of these scenarios ever come to fruition, because of the aforementioned problems with the site's culture and voting/visibility format.

 

Superdenim, on the other hand, seems to be closer (though it has its own problems too). Here things feel much more like a community: there is a relatively small group of mostly active and knowledgeable posters, and the format of the website is conducive both to searches (so the same questions don't get asked over again) and longer focused conservations (so things move more slowly and can be seen by the whole community without disappearing). People have generally been into denim for longer, and many are directly involved in the industry in some way or another. There also exists a mutual respect in most threads: people are generally taken seriously, there are fewer insults, and there is no need to grovel for attention with pictures and in-jokes when they're not necessary. Whether the posters here consider themselves part of a real "community" is up to each person individually, but as a whole I would say there is a much greater sense of community here than on other denim forums I have seen.

[DhaDha]

damn, let the academic in you speaks out chicote! i mostly agree with your assessment. 

 

as for 4chan, if they have raw denim community there, then we are talking (and likely half of sufu will migrate there)

[Geeman]

Tried Reddit once, format confused the arse off me. Left and never went back. I think there is some sense of community here and by and large the conversations and info exchanged are constructive and we'll intended. It's only when someone is a total twat they come under fire. Interesting though that when I look really far back in a thread or read comments from the real old school on here I get the impression that it was not always the case here, seems like a lot of the negative aspects of forums have moved to other parts of Sufu.

 

Is there an introduction thread here somewhere for people to post a brief intro of themselves? It would be interesting to see what the demographic of the group is? Ages/country/professions?

[cmboland]

They do state of the sub surveys every so often to gather demographics on age. Location. Profession. Age of pairs. Brands owner and whatnot. Www.reddit.com/r/rawdenim is the link it people are curious.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I think Geeman's quiestion was if we have comparable thread about age, origin, profession, etc. here on Sufu

[bradl]

Holy shit chicote way to make me feel stupid 😮

I will say I use to be a firm believer in /r/ but over time I got sick of all the mostlyshitty posts. 90% of the brands represented there have zero interest to me, posts are always low quality, and the useless banner that took over the general discussion is just embarrassing.

I tried to contribute good stuff, whether it be write ups on brands, world tours, or even starting the 3sixteen contest. But in the end still just sane old same old though

Edited August 21, 2015 by bradl

[Chubacca]

Well, I'm an idiot.  I decided to do a hot soak in my bath tub last night on my brand new Samurais after a hot wash.  I cleaned up my tub with some cleaner and put my jeans in there.  Later, I see this white spot that it looks like my jeans got in some contact with the cleaner and "killed" some indigo?  I guess I didn't rinse my tub good enough...I'm never putting any jeans in the tub again.

 

 

 

 

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 8, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Maynard Friedman]

Just colour it in with a permanent black felt tip/marker pen. You won't even know it's there.

[Chubacca]

^ Yeah I was thinking of just coloring that area with a sharpie pen

[edmond]

Juat tell them your jizz did that. You are super potent. Can tear a hole inside the uterus.

[volvo240thebest]

^ pure Ed style haha!!!

[dwilson123]

My biggest gripe with reddit is not exactly that most people are new to raw denim.  I get it people need to start somewhere.  I get it you're proud of your brand new unbranded jeans and you want to show them off.  Fine, whatever.  My biggest issue is the hivemind.  Probably because the reddit up/down vote system actively supports "one true opinion" but if you have anything off-keel you'll get some snarky comment which will be the most upvoted thing in the thread.  If you aren't wearing either Wolverines, Red Wings, have size downed slim tapered cut with a J Crew gingham top you're going to get your outfit questioned.  My last progress update was my 1 year PBJ 24-005 which will probably be my last album I post there.  More people were concerned about my TSG long wallet because apparently they've never heard or seen a long wallet in their life.  So there is really just no point anymore.  I've had beefs with the rawdenim community for a few years now I honestly don't know why I even go there so often.

[cmboland]

My biggest gripe with reddit is not exactly that most people are new to raw denim.  I get it people need to start somewhere.  I get it you're proud of your brand new unbranded jeans and you want to show them off.  Fine, whatever.  My biggest issue is the hivemind.  Probably because the reddit up/down vote system actively supports "one true opinion" but if you have anything off-keel you'll get some snarky comment which will be the most upvoted thing in the thread.  If you aren't wearing either Wolverines, Red Wings, have size downed slim tapered cut with a J Crew gingham top you're going to get your outfit questioned.  My last progress update was my 1 year PBJ 24-005 which will probably be my last album I post there.  More people were concerned about my TSG long wallet because apparently they've never heard or seen a long wallet in their life.  So there is really just no point anymore.  I've had beefs with the rawdenim community for a few years now I honestly don't know why I even go there so often.

 

 

Any community like that has a hivemind. This one is guilty of its own in ways as well.

[itsbenhere]

True in that a lot of times people get neg bombed just for fun. But you still see every post no matter how bad.

I also greatly prefer that it reads in a linear conversation so you can follow what's going on. Reddit, like the way stories are, is just like comment thread vomit that's randomly displayed imo. Will never get it...

[melbatoast]

Any community like that has a hivemind. This one is guilty of its own in ways as well.

It's true, but reddit is a hivemind by design- all of reddit, not just rawdenim. I think reddit mods, including rawdenim mods, try to cut down on the circle jerking but it's just so fundamental to the site functionality that there isn't anything to be done. I visit r/rawdenim often cause I enjoy pics of jeans, but I just gloss over most of the rest.

[dwilson123]

Any community like that has a hivemind. This one is guilty of its own in ways as well.

 

No doubt.  I've lurked sufu for a while now its just I finally got off my arse to email an admin for why my account was screwed up.  But at least there is a variety of cuts and brands featured and the individual brand comment threads and bumping nature of forums makes it more accessible to see what you want to see.  The past month of reddit has basically been an endless stream of Oni fit checks.

 

Also that is another thing I don't get.  Reddit's love for Denimio.  I've bought from them.  Yeah it was easy.  But no easier than 2nd/pirates/klax-on/au-rodeo ... basically any rakuten store I've used.  It is like all the people on reddit just realized Oni just now exists because Denimio stocks them but you could have easily bought them at Japanese prices way, way before Denimio.

[cmboland]

No doubt.  I've lurked sufu for a while now its just I finally got off my arse to email an admin for why my account was screwed up.  But at least there is a variety of cuts and brands featured and the individual brand comment threads and bumping nature of forums makes it more accessible to see what you want to see.  The past month of reddit has basically been an endless stream of Oni fit checks.

 

Also that is another thing I don't get.  Reddit's love for Denimio.  I've bought from them.  Yeah it was easy.  But no easier than 2nd/pirates/klax-on/au-rodeo ... basically any rakuten store I've used.  It is like all the people on reddit just realized Oni just now exists because Denimio stocks them but you could have easily bought them at Japanese prices way, way before Denimio.

 

 

Consider the demographic, Mostly very young people who im assuming have their parents purchase for them and "rakuten" scares them. I usually shop at 2nd but now that denimio (and-japan)  is up and running online i'll give it a shot. I remember your older posts of getting your FH flannels and SG hoodies on /r/rawdenim

[Frost]

Also that is another thing I don't get.  Reddit's love for Denimio.  I've bought from them.  Yeah it was easy.  But no easier than 2nd/pirates/klax-on/au-rodeo ... basically any rakuten store I've used.  It is like all the people on reddit just realized Oni just now exists because Denimio stocks them but you could have easily bought them at Japanese prices way, way before Denimio.

 

Yes, but that would require a certain amount of time and research invested into what Rakuten/those stores are, and I believe that most (not all) people on reddit are not willing to put in any effort into their search for a pair - just look at the million of questions asked there that could be solved by common sense/one minute of googling. Someday someone mentions that Denimio started stocking ONI and all the people who were too lazy to google/acquire the brand beforehand immediately jump on it.

[cusswords]

The past month of reddit has basically been an endless stream of Oni fit checks.

 

Also that is another thing I don't get.  Reddit's love for Denimio.  I've bought from them.  Yeah it was easy.  But no easier than 2nd/pirates/klax-on/au-rodeo ... basically any rakuten store I've used.  It is like all the people on reddit just realized Oni just now exists because Denimio stocks them but you could have easily bought them at Japanese prices way, way before Denimio.

 

ONI on Denimio is just the perfect convergence of what the r/rawdenim hivemind wants; a super slubby, heavyweight, aggressively tapered jean at a low price.  If ONI ever release a indigo or black weft fabric you could basically change r/rawdenim to r/onifitcheck. Reddit's voting systems basically becomes a community approval system, and as the community grows larger the opinions become more and more narrow minded. It becomes too hard to discern people with a genuine interest in denim from people who want to fit in a collect fake internet points. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by cusswords

[cmboland]

You know, i  turned up on punchable faces on supertrash.