Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[Geeman]

I work in a formal company and only really wear my jeans on casual Friday and weekends. Fades aren't my priority so I can live with it. It would be nice to have a job where I could dress casual more often but it wouldn't be a deciding factor when accepting a role.

[FeloniousMonk]

Sorry, DhaDha. I think you're sort of stuck with off-hours and weekend/holiday wear then. Corporate banking and consulting will probably be the last two holdouts for any sort of dress code when all the rest of the working world has gone to a free-for-all of hoodies over tube tops and cargo shorts.

 

There's a lot of fun stuff to be done with tailored clothes, but unfortunately it's also a waste of a good suit to sit around in it all day. I've got a few made-to-measure suits that are an absolute joy to break out for random occasions, but when my boss suggested he would need me in a suit each day, I quickly picked up some cheaper-but-decently-fitting off-the-rack options to bear the brunt of indifferent wear (SuitSupply was great for that).

 

The one glimmer of hope is if you work in a small office. In that case, the boss tends to get laxer and laxer as time goes on, and you can probably get to the point where you wear jeans for "normal" days and keep a suit at the office for client meetings or the such. Worked for me, at least.

[Maynard Friedman]

I work in IT for a large corporate and had to wear a suit (no tie though) everyday (except Friday) but could work from home 2-3 days a week. We moved buildings in the summer to a kind of poor man's Google office - table tennis, pool tables, 'corporate-funky chic' style, etc, which is OK and better than the previous bland environment BUT best of all, the dress code was scrapped and we can now wear what we like. Sometimes I now wear a suit when working from home, just to stick it to the man in a last act of defiance!

[bradl]

That'll show him!

Honestly wouldn't work somewhere that told me what I could or couldn't wear, or other bullshit restrictions like facial hair.

[Sugar Mountain]

I'm also fortunate enough to work in an environment where for the most part the dress code is fairly relaxed. If I'm at my desk all day and not seeing any external visitors, I'll be in my jeans. If there's an important event or a meeting in town, I'll be in a suit or at least a smart pair of chinos (Real McCoys!) and shirt.

 

I imagine most of us will agree that clothing speaks volumes about someone's attitude and their relationship with the world - otherwise, we wouldn't invest so much time, money and energy into the clothing we enjoy wearing. With that comes the acknowledgment that on other occasions, our appearance needs to reflect something other than ''rugged casual''! That might be how you represent your company or it might be dressing the part for a family wedding. We may not always be entirely comfortable with a different style of dress but with greater responsibility there often comes the need to compromise and adapt for reasons beyond ourselves.

 

To address the OP, don't give up on jeans and fading just because you can't wear them all the time. Japan has one of the most crushingly homogeneous corporate cultures in the world where there is barely any choice in the colour of your suit and tie, let alone whether you can or cannot wear one. Still there are plenty of salarymen and denim-dads wearing jeans outside of the workplace. It just takes longer to get the jeans to where you want them. Keep the faith!

[S-Town]

Unfortunately, my office uses "jeans days" as an incentive during United Way giving time, or when there is a reason to celebrate. "Buy up to 8 JEANS DAYS for $10/per, and be entered into a drawing for great prizes, including ADDITIONAL JEANS DAYS!" "Let's celebrate the kick-off to another successful season of Cardinals baseball by wearing your favorite red shirt and JEANS!!! (Make sure you have your manager's approval first.)"

 

People (especially the ladies) lose their fucking minds over the chance to put on their too-tight Old Navys. "Don't forget to wear jeans tomorrow!" text messages at night are pretty normal. The intense heartbreak you witness when someone rolls in with their power suit, only to realize that they forgot to wear their jeans. Be ready to spend all morning responding to "OMG, that sucks that you forget your jeans. Maybe you can run back home???" "There's a Macy's close by, and I think they're having a one-day sale." "I might have another pair in my car, but I think their missing a button."

 

Anyway, jeans have become a more evident motivator than merit raises. So, I'm pretty confident they won't be allowing a free-for-all anytime soon. My 401k is decent though, so there's that...

[Rightyow77]

I work at a grocery store part time, attend University, volunteer helping people with mental disabilities some of the time and run my own dog/pet care seasonally. Needless to say I wear what I want, and my clothes really take a beating because of it. Up until recently I've been noticing a lot more men in my area starting to adopt the whole "work wear chic" look. Its cool for the most part since I can talk to more local people about denim and the like. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Rightyow77

[bradl]

Unfortunately, my office uses "jeans days" as an incentive during United Way giving time, or when there is a reason to celebrate. "Buy up to 8 JEANS DAYS for $10/per, and be entered into a drawing for great prizes, including ADDITIONAL JEANS DAYS!" "Let's celebrate the kick-off to another successful season of Cardinals baseball by wearing your favorite red shirt and JEANS!!! (Make sure you have your manager's approval first.)"

People (especially the ladies) lose their fucking minds over the chance to put on their too-tight Old Navys. "Don't forget to wear jeans tomorrow!" text messages at night are pretty normal. The intense heartbreak you witness when someone rolls in with their power suit, only to realize that they forgot to wear their jeans. Be ready to spend all morning responding to "OMG, that sucks that you forget your jeans. Maybe you can run back home???" "There's a Macy's close by, and I think they're having a one-day sale." "I might have another pair in my car, but I think their missing a button."

Anyway, jeans have become a more evident motivator than merit raises. So, I'm pretty confident they won't be allowing a free-for-all anytime soon. My 401k is decent though, so there's that...

Holy shit, that was painful to imagine. Sounds like a modern day plot of office space.

[Maynard Friedman]

My 401k is decent though, so there's that...

Is this a new LVC model?

[dwilson123]

Unfortunately, my office uses "jeans days" as an incentive during United Way giving time, or when there is a reason to celebrate. "Buy up to 8 JEANS DAYS for $10/per, and be entered into a drawing for great prizes, including ADDITIONAL JEANS DAYS!" "Let's celebrate the kick-off to another successful season of Cardinals baseball by wearing your favorite red shirt and JEANS!!! (Make sure you have your manager's approval first.)"

 

People (especially the ladies) lose their fucking minds over the chance to put on their too-tight Old Navys. "Don't forget to wear jeans tomorrow!" text messages at night are pretty normal. The intense heartbreak you witness when someone rolls in with their power suit, only to realize that they forgot to wear their jeans. Be ready to spend all morning responding to "OMG, that sucks that you forget your jeans. Maybe you can run back home???" "There's a Macy's close by, and I think they're having a one-day sale." "I might have another pair in my car, but I think their missing a button."

 

Anyway, jeans have become a more evident motivator than merit raises. So, I'm pretty confident they won't be allowing a free-for-all anytime soon. My 401k is decent though, so there's that...

 

My wife's place does the same.  With all the jeans day blocks she's probably wearing jeans 75% of the time she's working there but has to pay probably like $400 in donations to do it.

[DhaDha]

yeah, thanks for the responses. i guess there's no helping it. on the plus side i will probably be able to afford more jeans.....that i can't wear more than 8 days a months. oh the irony haha. 

 

I'm actually interested in exploring other subset of menswear as well, especially tailoring and bespoke. i've been reading blogs like permanent style, parisian gentleman, the shoe snob and whatnot. while they are miles away from where we are at superdenim, i find a lot of emphasis on similar topics: fit, material, construction, the fact that well made garments look better and last longer, etc etc. each subset has their own charm and nooks and crannies to explore, to be sure. 

 

problem with tailoring is, well, price. you could get top-tier denim from sammy, momo, FH and the rest for $300-350, or even natural indigo jawnz for $8-900 max. shirt, etc. cost similarly so you're looking at $600. top tier RTW suit goes somewhere around $3-4000. tailoring is more expensive, more difficult to wear, difficult to maintain, and not as rugged. and we are not even talking about bespoke joint too.

 

beside, it's not as fun. when you see tailoring meet-up, it is always well dressed men&women sipping champagne in some classy setting, whereas all the parties i see you guy getting up too to be filled with beer and good laugh. the ambient is totally different. there's no sense of community where you go, oh XX-san is releasing new fit in new fabric, all made by himself and he's throwing a competition, or Roy making quirky patch for his next jeans and Kiya let us in on the brewing magic. you can't go to various denim blog and ogle at faded pairs, or looking at raw denim and thinking how they will fade. all these don't exist anywhere else in the menswear world, that's a given.

 

damn, i'm gona miss the days where i can wear my jeans all the time. for the past 4 years i thought these days would never end. alas, no party never ends. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by DhaDha

[Flash]

look on the bright side , at least your not wearing overalls and a leather apron 

[denihilist]

I work in post production, the fact that I'm not in pajamas all day is a miracle.

[cmboland]

I work pretty basic doctors office hours. (8 hour shifts) and we can wear jeans on fridays but i typically limit that to my newer looking pairs only.

[apba1166]

"top tier RTW suit goes somewhere around $3-4000. tailoring is more expensive, more difficult to wear, difficult to maintain, and not as rugged. and we are not even talking about bespoke joint too."

 

Yes, you can spend that on suits--but like denim, it's just fabric cut and sewn...The top Italian, British and U.S. suitmakers all use the same 3-4 mills etc. And finishing shops.

The way to the get better for less is to work with a good independent tailor. Most can get the SAME EXACT cloth form the same place as the famous labels. Your choice of fabrics may be limited but on the other side you get a custom made suit from the get go--and with, I assure you, a better lining, which matters. And any details you want. Cost? Maybe 800-1200. In the old days (late 80s, early 90s), I had them made for 375 when Canali/Armani/Oxxford were 1200. You give up the "label" but that is truly the only difference. Fewer of those tailors around now but most big cities have 3-4 who are top drawer.

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2016 by apba1166

[DhaDha]

of course. There are tons of them here where i live (Bangkok), and most of them can do a custom suit for cheap (3-400 bucks). But really, while dollar to dollar local bespoke might provide better value than OTR suits, ultimately you get what you pay for. Cheaper tailors will cut corner somewhere, some visible, some none. Things like full canvassing, handiworks, etc still cost money no matter where you go, and top tailor in Bangkok still command about 1-2000 USD. 

 

And while i will never get OTR suit for 4-5,000 (Attolini, Brioni, Oxxford, Tom Ford, etc) i still think there's still something to be had from top end bespoke from Savil Row or Neapolitan Houses. House style, impeccable materials and fits, all play into it. But then those cost like $5,000-10,000.  

Edited January 11, 2016 by DhaDha

[Chubacca]

$150 donation to Corporate fund to wear jeans on Fridays for a year.  

[FeloniousMonk]

i still think there's still something to be had from top end bespoke from Savil Row or Neapolitan Houses. House style, impeccable materials and fits, all play into it. But then those cost like $5,000-10,000.  

 

There's definitely something to be said for them, but the Savile Row tailors also don't cost all that much unless perhaps you are talking about one or two of the extremely fusty blueblood names (like Gieves & Hawkes) or some of the very fashionable names (Ozwald Boateng). They're more around $3.5-5k, which admittedly is still a damn hefty price, but it's also the cost of the finest tailoring in the world.

 

What I find really funny is that the big fashion names, who I would probably characterize as lower quality than the good Savile Row houses or other top bespoke tailors, actually charge more. Tom Ford and Ralph Lauren are definitely charging $5-10k for their mostly handmade suits, it blows my mind.

[DhaDha]

yeah, from what i garnered, Savile Row bespoke usually goes for £3-5K, but if you go for very very fine and expensive fabric price could go up more. one day....a man can dream. 

 

I actually just bought Ralph Lauren Black Label suit. They are actually, again from what i garnered on style forum and the likes, good quality suits, mid-high market, and high-end for Purple Label line, so is Tom Ford. RLBL/RLPL suitings are made by Caruso, a very respectable Italian house, in Italy. They do charge a lot for their suit though, and the consensus seems to be that they are value on discount, and not worth it at MSRP (a price no sane person pays). i got mine NWT about 65% off tag price from good old eBay. 

 

There's an interesting point though, and this steer this thread towards all thing denim blunders, reflections and general nonsense. apba1166 just mentioned how you could go to tailor and get a suit made with the same fabric as high end branded stuff for 1/3 the price, and they might be better too (more suited to your need). Well with denim you could get all sort of fabrics, even the supposedly rare natural indigo dyed ones (sugar cane *wink wink*) and get those made into jeans for a lot lower prices. And yet, we still buy a lot of the branded stuff. granted, most of our beloved brand got exclusive fabric you can't get anywhere else, but all else being equal i would wager that people would still buy the branded stuff, even if they can customise a MTO denim whatever way they like. I for one would rather get sugar cane 40400, if i could find a raw pair in my size, than go to a tailor who has a 40400 denim (i know 1 or 2 here) and get them made into jeans, even with all the blinks blinks i can think of. i'm still struggling to find out why that is. authenticity? originality? love for brand? why do you guys think that is?

Edited January 11, 2016 by DhaDha

[Niro]

I work in IT for a large corporate and had to wear a suit (no tie though) everyday (except Friday) but could work from home 2-3 days a week. We moved buildings in the summer to a kind of poor man's Google office - table tennis, pool tables, 'corporate-funky chic' style, etc, which is OK and better than the previous bland environment BUT best of all, the dress code was scrapped and we can now wear what we like. Sometimes I now wear a suit when working from home, just to stick it to the man in a last act of defiance!

 

you lucky *******!

I wish my company would do that, instead they are bringing in these old draconian bullcrap. one day I hope to work in such an environment.

 

I only get to wear jeans on Friday during dressdown. At the moment I try to wear my jeans as much as possible on the weekend, and may even start wearing it for the few hours every weekday evening.

[Max Power]

Went from wearing only complete suits with tie and dress shoes to wearing faded jeans and workboots (and less formal yet somewhat dressy shirts like chambrays) within the same company and while being promoted two times. It can be done, if you just take time. First I skipped the tie, then wore black jeans, then boots to the black jeans, then dark blue jeans, finally the suit jacket had to go. Nobody really noticed that, but it took me 5 years haha.

When I wear suits today I feel restircted and want to rip them off my body after 5 minutes.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Max Power

[dwilson123]

I generally try and look somewhat presentable.  I try not to wear graphic tee's all too often which is why my closet is jammed with flannels and workshirts.  I used to really slum it at work and just wear jeans, sneakers and an old tshirt but I've tried to class it up a touch lately.  But some days it just doesn't happen.

[Sugar Mountain]

There's an interesting point though, and this steer this thread towards all thing denim blunders, reflections and general nonsense. apba1166 just mentioned how you could go to tailor and get a suit made with the same fabric as high end branded stuff for 1/3 the price, and they might be better too (more suited to your need). Well with denim you could get all sort of fabrics, even the supposedly rare natural indigo dyed ones (sugar cane *wink wink*) and get those made into jeans for a lot lower prices. And yet, we still buy a lot of the branded stuff. granted, most of our beloved brand got exclusive fabric you can't get anywhere else, but all else being equal i would wager that people would still buy the branded stuff, even if they can customise a MTO denim whatever way they like. I for one would rather get sugar cane 40400, if i could find a raw pair in my size, than go to a tailor who has a 40400 denim (i know 1 or 2 here) and get them made into jeans, even with all the blinks blinks i can think of. i'm still struggling to find out why that is. authenticity? originality? love for brand? why do you guys think that is?

 

There's good reason to make this decision and that's because there is so much more to a great pair of jeans than just its fabric. That includes the cutting/silhouette, the quality of stitching, the finishing and of course the constructional processes such as hidden rivets and raised belt loops thatrequire genuine skill to undertake. Fact of the matter is that even what appears to be a simple model of jeans such as Warehouse 800 or Resolute 710 will have had a huge amount of work put into it and it will have been designed meticulously from the ground up. This simply cannot be achieved by a less-skilled person - be they a tailor (outside the denim industry - within it, I think Double Volante or the old model of Ooe's business are somewhat comparable to a bespoke tailor) or a greener start-up where you can clearly see how many of the key factors are ''off''.

[Cucoo]

Yeah, you can get MTO in dubious quality from Kickstarter type "brands" that go down in flames after a while (Lawless, Orijeans) but there's not many "real" options I'm aware of. Spanish Companion Denim comes to mind, and there's a German dude doing full bespoke denim but the name escapes me at the moment.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

^ Ruttloff

 

http://ruttloff-garments.com/

[Cucoo]

^ Yeah, that's him.

[Cold Summer]

Viapiana is also supposed to be really nice, a while ago there was a guy on Reddit who posted his jeans from there and they looked great.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Cold Summer

[FeloniousMonk]

Yeah, the real reason to buy some of the known (often Japanese) brands is because, well, this is difficult stuff. Making a pair of jeans correctly requires lots and lots and lots of practice, plus often a close degree of supervision by someone more experienced as you get better and better. Then you need either tight quality controls or a rare degree of discipline to not have days where you go "ah screw it" and let a few details slide.

 

Since there aren't that many people or places capable of making great jeans, I think the top denim brands have mostly locked up that relative handful of small factories and artisan groups. It's simple as that. Anyone else with that same level of discipline and dedication may have started a solo brand (like Ande, Roy, Viapiana, etc.), but is still pretty well-known.

 

I'd personally say that it's the same with suits. There really aren't that many people or factories that can make a top quality suit, and most of them have trained together at one point or another. A typical tailor can get the right material, but there will almost certainly be discernible differences in the silhouette, the way it hangs open, and stitching quality. But, just like with jeans, you need to be kind of an obsessive nerd before you would notice

[Chubacca]

I’ve recently had some thoughts on Roy denim and can someone honestly tell me what’s the whole appeal?  Who will honestly pay $350 for this pair of denim? Theoretically with that type of money, you could easily buy a pair of quality Japanese denim and have enough left over money to buy a shirt.

 

1.)    Cone Mill

a.       I understand the American history and lineage with this "heritage" mill, but honestly it isn’t very good denim.  All the 10-13oz denim I’ve inspected is flimsy and just seems very suspect to ripping and blow outs.  I’ve always questioned the longevity and durability of denim from that mill. 

2.)    Fades are not impressive

a.       I know contrast fades aren’t the sole purpose of buying raw denim, but for a majority of us it ranks pretty high.  The fades I’ve seen aren’t very impressive at all and most of the combs and whiskers just look like wrinkles. 

3.)    Button Issue

a.       I just saw that there was a button issue and everyone who purchased the jean will have to send them back to Self Edge.  If I’m paying a premium for craftsmanship, would there be a button issue for a WHOLE  jean production line? 

4.)    Marketing and “Spinning†Product Details

a.       In a lot of his production details, they explain that they “did not haveâ€, “could not produce†, “never to be made again†or “had to use another company manufacture to ensure it met quality standards.† This all seems really hokey to me.  If my production line could not produce a specific part of my final product, does that automatically correlate to exclusiveness? Does that type of exclusiveness justify the price point? What's the reason a designer, manufacturer, or seller would be adding that to the production details? Should a customer pay a premium if the manufacturer is going through multiple production channels to create their final product?

 

I’m not trying to put Roy or Self Edge on blast, but I just don’t see the allure of Roy denim.

[givemefive]

He got burned by not testing new hardware before applying it in production, that's for sure.  Gotta get that 100% test coverage before you deploy! (programmer joke)

 

I owned a pair for a short while before reselling it because they didn't fit.  I though the details were right on, sewing impeccable, the denim was premium cone (not typical red line BS) but at the same time it wasn't special like the Japanese brands.