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Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

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Yeah. I feel like LVC promises much but rarely delivers.

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I'm getting older and more gently...
 

Yeah CSF's 'politics' turned me away from Konaka-san as well but I wouldn't say I hate the brand per se.
Have you seen the new FC 30th anniversary? They entered the "shoddy-stitching-train" as well now :D 

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Posted (edited)

@Double 0 SoulLMAO hit me up when you guys do the "members i don't care for"

Edited by goodrain

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I like TCB and I have their Type 1 denim jacket (I sold one that was too small and bought a bigger size). There always seems to be something about the cut of their various jean models though that isn’t quite right for me so I can’t ever see myself wearing them. I did have a pair of 50s some years back that I sold unworn as the hem was too wide.

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12 hours ago, ColonelAngus said:

Are there any denim brands you guys dislike, for whatever reason? Could be aesthetics, business model, etc.

I have a handful, generally comes down to aesthetics and cuts / denims not really jiving with what I like.
-Oni: I don't care for their fast fading denim and their cuts are ankle-crushers.
-PBJ: Similar story to Oni, mostly cuts / denims that I'm not interested in. Their t-shirts and shirts are nice enough.
-Iron Heart: Personally can't stand heavyweight denim, don't think there's much value in regards to their western pricing model.
-CSF: Good product and started off well enough, but he's let the success / hype get to his head. Taken some low blows at other people in the community.
-FC: Changing all the cuts, ditching the arcs/tabs and then the whole TCB incident left a bad taste in my mouth.
-RMC: There's enough dirt out there on them as to why they're on the list.
-TCB: This one to a lesser extent, there's always just something not quite right in the patterning with everything I've tried from them.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Maynard Friedman said:

I like TCB and I have their Type 1 denim jacket (I sold one that was too small and bought a bigger size). There always seems to be something about the cut of their various jean models though that isn’t quite right for me so I can’t ever see myself wearing them. I did have a pair of 50s some years back that I sold unworn as the hem was too wide.

I find the TCB cat-love more appealing than the jeans, (it's so damn charming) i have nothing against the brand.. c'mon maynard it's hate we're looking for not your meek "isn't quite right for me"

I used to have an aversion to MF but i think that was more due to folks splurging 1000's of $$$ on garments which were so baddly fitting, they made them look like cheap shit from Primark.

Edited by Double 0 Soul

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I only tend to dislike the stuff that becomes ridiculously popular or overhyped.

Also, having been to the shop and seen/tried on their clothes, I cannot understand why anyone would pay the extortionate prices that RMC charge. I honestly don’t get it as almost everything I’ve seen from them fails to justify the price tag and a similar product is available from other brands for less.

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That’s the spirit!

I always hated that bloody pig branding SDA use, shame cos the denim is all kinds of great but I can’t bear that pig.

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19 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

That’s the spirit!

I always hated that bloody pig branding SDA use, shame cos the denim is all kinds of great but I can’t bear that pig.

Get the international models...problem solved ;) 

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Posted (edited)

Kinda never got the thing about the super heavy slubs like PBJ, Oni and Tanuki.
Also IH, tried a few of their jeans, and the cuts seem to be a bit off for me, that combined with the heavyweight denim and underwhelming durability makes it even worse...
Nowadays the only pair I have from them, sits around at my parents place, for when I have to work in their yard. 

I do like the old SDA stuff, but the new tab placement just doesn't do it for me. I would have loved to try FC but that whole thing with the TCB 20s contest kinda ruined them for me.
So maybe some grievances here and there might be there :D

Edited by Thanks_M8

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

Get the international models...problem solved ;) 

The pigs are still there on the patch, it’s the jeans in the middle that are hidden behind the mountain.

Edited by Maynard Friedman

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  • WH Ranch
  • RRL
  • Current LVC
  • ANY jeans made by any brand after about 2010 :laugh2:

 

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8 minutes ago, Maynard Friedman said:

The pigs are still there in the patch, it’s the jeans in the middle that are hidden behind the mountain.

Ah fuck yes...they introduced a new international design as well but not on all models it seems.

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1 hour ago, Maynard Friedman said:
  • ANY jeans made by any brand after about 2010 :laugh2:

get-off-my-lawn-old-lady.gif

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I think I might have missed this. What is the dirt on RMC?

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Posted (edited)

Some I've never cared for:

  • Momotaro: I've never understood the hype surrounding this brand. I don't like their branding (stripes, patch, etc.), denim (all sanforized), or cuts. They're not bad, but nothing about them appeals to me or works for me anyway. I have somewhat similar feelings toward Studio D'Artisan as well. I like Japan Blue as a budget option though and recommend them sometimes.
  • LVC: Way too expensive for what you get. Can't stand their polyester stitching, IMO makes the jeans look cheap. Levi's arcs on your butt aren't work the price, quality, and denim that are all subpar compared to Japanese repro jeans.
  • APC: I've always thought these were overrated as a gateway brand, but today when there are tons of brands with similar cuts and much higher quality construction/denim, and APC is more expensive than ever, there's little reason to recommend them. I have never liked how their denim fades - the rapid fading tends to attract denim noobs who don't realize the texture and dyeing is not very good at all.
  • Not a fan of most Indonesian or Thai brands, though "Piger Works" stands out as being one with branding and image I especially dislike (though the quality of the jeans/value is probably pretty good.)

Of course I'm not a big fan of hype-based brands like Naked And Famous and Oni, but I don't really have anything to say that hasn't been said a million times already. Some brands like PBJ and Samurai put out a bunch of Reddit hypebeast tacky hyper-slub fabrics in lifter cuts that I don't like, but I still think their classic/core models are great and the hypebeast models don't detract from those.

This will really get me some hate: I've never liked jeans by most of the one-man/micro-scale brands like Roy, Tender, CSF, etc. I think the story is interesting, the craftsmanship obviously excellent, but I never liked the design details, cuts, etc. Something about the vibe of wearing one-man-made jeans has never appealed to me either, I feel for some strange reason like this clashes with the "spirit" of jeans. I wouldn't say I "dislike" these brands, rather they just don't appeal to me at all and I've never felt drawn to any of the hype. Ooe is the one brand I'd probably be willing to make an exception for in this regard, but I feel like my Warehouse jeans are good enough for the vintage vibe, and cost way less. The price of a lot of these jeans seems way past the point of diminishing returns for me when you can get Warehouse or TCB for dramatically less.

Edited by Cold Summer

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1 hour ago, goodrain said:

I think I might have missed this. What is the dirt on RMC?

I'll try and sum it up in one paragraph..

The rot set in when RMC stopped JP stores shipping the brand internationally, they wanted a piece of the pie.. so after years of receiving excellent service from JP stores like Vintage Paradise, i was forced to deal with Superdenim and their lackadaisical approach to retail.
This instantly doubled the price of their goods outside Japan, They took the brand away from BiG for no good reason other than well.. more greed and their garments are terribly made, the fabrics are good but the thread/construction is terrible.. their customer service is awful so if you do have a no fault problem they'll just tell you to fuck off.

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I see. Luckily people in the US can buy from Standard and Strange right now at a decent price and they have great customer service

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Also they have supposedly screwed over a vintage seller for inspiration on items that they ended up reproducing. *This is all 3rd party information I saw awhile back somewhere online.*
There was a vintage seller who showed them some items, they asked the seller to put them aside and they would come back to purchase them later at the end of the show.
When the seller stepped away from his booth for lunch they came back, photographed the goods and never purchased them. They ended up making exact repros of the vintage piece.
Kind of a grey area (theoretically you could say maybe they found sourcing material elsewhere for inspiration), but seems like business practice regardless in my opinion.

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Didn't RMC briefly have a retail store in New York operated by the guys from BiG? I thought that sounded really cool but I swear it ended up disappearing after maybe a couple months as though it never happened. That whole thing was pretty weird and made me wonder what the deal was with them.

Never been a huge RMC fan, but I do like my A-2 a bunch.

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@Cold Summer that's correct, they did open an NYC shop and it's time was very brief.

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Posted (edited)

I feel I should defend PBJ and FC but fear the reprisals....(not defending their approach to TCB though!)

SDA jeans yes, tops not so much. 

RMC I like....but cannot disagree with any of the points above!

IH put me off a long time ago, to defensive,  to expensive (for a product like Japanese denim/flannel that other brands do as well at about half the price) and cuts not for me. 

I really want to like TCB, nice guys, nice brand but none of the cuts fit right, always something a bit off. 

Now to appease Neil with some straight hate, merz B .... shite. Weird sizing , necklines are awful and bought from them twice. Both went back with quality issues 

, both times they tried to argue.... 

Edited by Geeman

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Not feeling much hate, but certainly some regret, including buying too much too fast, especially slim fit jeans.

Regarding CSF, I actually like the jeans but buying them never felt quite right (e.g., high prices, full payment up front, and long wait times).  As nice as the jeans are (not to mention the boxes and packaging), I always asked myself, 'Is this guy for real?'

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I have no hate for anyone, but there are brands without any cut that works for me. E.g., PBJ or IH jackets are all too long for me. I largely dislike Kapital's stuff.

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No hate

visvim are overpriced - especially since a lot is made in China (nothing to do with quality, everything to do with wages)

RMC are gangsters 

Iron Heart looks like the pattern is straight from those cut out figures you dressed with paper clothes

RRL tries too hard

Mostly though the debate seems to centre around what denim is better (most folk couldn’t tell the difference between one swatch or another), what leather is better (again most folk wouldn’t know the the difference between good, bad or indifferent, in fact probably wouldn’t know horsehide from cowhide), what cotton is better etc.

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19 hours ago, Geeman said:

Now to appease Neil with some straight hate, merz B .... shite. Weird sizing , necklines are awful and bought from them twice. Both went back with quality issues 

, both times they tried to argue.... 

Interesting, I feel that my Merz tees fit me better than any others (but being tall + skinny I can see how they're not for everyone, they definitely seemed cut to fit best on stereotypically northern European proportions.) No quality issues with the four tees I have, and I actually like the relaxed necks. I have tees with snug necks like Warehouse and while they look great the Merz is a lot more comfy, especially in warmer weather.

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On 5/6/2022 at 10:46 AM, Cold Summer said:

This will really get me some hate: I've never liked jeans by most of the one-man/micro-scale brands like Roy, Tender, CSF, etc. I think the story is interesting, the craftsmanship obviously excellent, but I never liked the design details, cuts, etc. Something about the vibe of wearing one-man-made jeans has never appealed to me either, I feel for some strange reason like this clashes with the "spirit" of jeans. I wouldn't say I "dislike" these brands, rather they just don't appeal to me at all and I've never felt drawn to any of the hype. 

Totally get not being into the designs but since I am a big Tender fan I feel like it's worth pointing out this isn't a one man operation like Roy - he hires ppl to do his cutting and sewing of denim (I think he posted about this before - it's an old tailor shop couple) and the knits and leather etc come from different places - he's the designer but certainly it is a team of people making the stuff. I also feel like the brand itself stands for anything but "hype" - in a way that is very different from CSF.  

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Posted (edited)
On 5/6/2022 at 12:41 AM, Double 0 Soul said:

You're too pleasant and mild-mannered for this game Tilmann!

I don't hate those brands either, i would never consider wearing/looking at them so i don't think about them any differently to the 1000's of other (meh) brands out there..

Brands have to irritate me in some way to cause hatered so RMC & CSF f'sure and to a lesser extent FC..

I could also add Levi's into the mix but it's not really hate i feel.. it's more like pity..

Let's get @goodrain in on the action.. i've got a feeling he's got some spare hate he could share with us :D

Just check who he's giving random trash votes to when making the most of benign of comments haha. He's got plenty of spare condo space in his head to rent for free.

I think hate is a little strong for what I feel because that implies a level of care I can't be bothered with - but I've found more to be turned off by in regards the public voices for a few US retailers of the stuff to never feel like shopping from those spots - as opposed to denim brands themselves. Sort of a bummer because I'd prefer to pay a little more to shop here for certain things but not at the expense of helping an...ummm...less than agreeable person build a business, not like they'd need my help. But your social media brand/internet presence is basically your public persona for those who will never be able to speak to probably much more chilled and nice sales associate. 

When I first checked the One Piece of Rock/CSF website back in like..2017 or so the front page was enough for me to feel barfy but certainly don't feel like I've missed out on having that first impression now. Not a fan of FC and WH Ranch for similar reasons having nothing to do with the actual pants. My most controversial take around here probably is that I am not really into what TCB is doing. Sometimes I want to like it more and I respect them for sure but don't see myself ever buying a piece. 

But I generally focus on the stuff that I actively am into and just sort of forget about the rest. There are still so many cool artisans and designers making enough cool stuff that the energy feels better spent focusing on the great than everything that isn't.  

I think the most interesting thing is that my opinions are shaped by so many things before I even get to the denim/fit itself. Probably a function of not living near any major retailers ever and going by internet for most of this most of the time. 

Edited by AlientoyWorkmachine

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Posted (edited)

I tend to be an outlier in the denim crowd as I’m a blue collar tradesmen so I tend to beat the hell out of expensive clothing pieces. 
I do tend to lean towards more workwear themed items like Runabout Goods. Or real classic cut pair of denim like Freewheelers or the most bang for buck jeans around Wrangler 13MWZ. 

Not a fan of ShipJohn, WH Ranch, Roy, Brian the Bootmaker, Lofgren Boots, MF besides the denim everything else seems a bit costumey, CSF, Momotaro, Oni, IronHeart, Flathead, RRL, LVC, the list goes on. 
 
Much shorter list would be brands I like and fully support. Haha 

Edited by shredwin_206

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