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Anyone here with experience with xx-007 raw?

I am thinking about sizing. Should I opt for a pair that fits perfectly in the waist and the stretch it back to that state afterwards or should I size one up?
How is shrinkage on the xx-007 and how is stretching abilities on them?

 

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17 hours ago, ShootThePier said:

Exchange rates change often, are the prices at Denimio at OD going change as often? What if Denimio and OD don't have the staff to change prices on every item each time the exchange rate changes?

Can't speak for OD, but Denimio used to charge you in Yen (now it seems they charge you in USD) and prices across the website are just automatically converted to whatever currency you switch to. I have first hand seen € prices on Denimio change on a daily basis.

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1 hour ago, Cucoo said:

I have first hand seen € prices on Denimio change on a daily basis.

Yes. Same. It obviously happens automatically.

Remember getting quite a shock when I had a few things in my OD basket pre referendum, then checked it a few days after the vote   :-(

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I guess that makes sense. There should be an app for that, that ties into accounting/inventory software and the webstore simultaneously, and that updates prices in all currencies daily.

Then again, there would need to be one more piece of the formula that would be PBJ/BIG/OD/Denimio specific to make sure there are no advantages, no matter what a currency's value is.

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17 hours ago, ShootThePier said:

I guess that makes sense. There should be an app for that, that ties into accounting/inventory software and the webstore simultaneously, and that updates prices in all currencies daily.

Then again, there would need to be one more piece of the formula that would be PBJ/BIG/OD/Denimio specific to make sure there are no advantages, no matter what a currency's value is.

I don't think that it's this complicated. The webshop just uses one currency internally for everything, but updates exchange rates regularly and then displays e.g. € value accordingly. Since you get charged in Yen (or $) and not in "your" currency there's no way to take any advantages. If your payment method is in another currency, the actual price you will be charged will not be exactly what is displayed in the webshop, since your bank or credit card provider will do the conversion, and the conversion rate used may/will differ from what the webshop uses.

This can work out to your advantage or disadvantage, but it won't make a huge difference, especially if you use a credit card which will normally incur fees if you get charged in a foreign currency. (If you use PayPal and have PayPal convert currencies for you, they'll mark up a few % too, so make sure to opt out of that option in your PP account and have your bank/CC provider do the conversion - depending on how high your fee for foreign currency charges is they'll probably be more favorable. My credit card for example refunds all of those fees.)

Edited by Cucoo

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7 hours ago, anklspr said:

I understand you not agreeing with the price increases, but I'm unsure as to what makes you so sure that PBJ is wrong in their decisions. I'm sure that they've thought this thing through. Then again, you could be right about everything:) 

I could very well be wrong too.

I'm not against price increases, but I am against increases that are not due to increased cost to produce or supply and demand issues.

Don't forget this price increase does nothing to add value for the end user. This price increase is for BIG to have price protection, to gain more of an existing market, by taking away sales from OD and Denimio. PBJ is not getting the extra $. OD and Denimio are not paying extra $. Will BIG sell as much more product as OD and Denimio MAY lose? Tough to guesstimate that one. Who will lose? Customers lose $, PBJ may lose sales. Maybe decreased volume means somebody loses a job. Nobody wins.

What happens when cost to produce does increase? It will be that much more difficult to pass on the legitimate increase.

What did OD put in their letter? 30-40% increase? That is a tough pill to swallow that any conscientious consumer would have to stop and question. BIG and PBJ wanted consumers to look at BIG as a retailer due to price. Might those same people looking to BIG based upon price, now also consider other brands based upon price? It's possible. BIG and PBJ have already used price as a motivator. It has the potential to backfire.

Again, I very well could be wrong.

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I understand that people can be happy with the fact that in in some countries oversea purchases are not scanned on a regular basis by the respecive customs agencies (and that existing laws and regulations are not enforced, or fly under the radar).

For brands with own distribution and/or no intentention to expand into oversea markets that can be OK, too.

Brands that do have oversea distribution partners, intend to develop these, or want to control their image will realize that the above mentioned situation is certainly unsustainable and counter-productive in the mid- to long-term. PBJ has to act in the interest of their partners.

One way is to prohibit oversea sales or, at least to discourage them. Setting an international sales price is actually quite "smart" or "educational" in some regards: the (domestic) retailers are still allowed to ship and any potential custom charges would be on top of the international price...

I'm pretty sure that PBJ's interest is not to make extra money but to discourage by-passing of existing local distributers which carry the full cost of regular/legal importation.

The real problem are the differences in cost and taxation along with the protective measures that exist between different countries - and, I am not saying that free, un-restricted trade is the only solution. But, I certainly believe that PBJ has every right to act in their partner's interest.

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On 3/13/2017 at 11:58 AM, nizzel55 said:

Anyone here with experience with xx-007 raw?

I am thinking about sizing. Should I opt for a pair that fits perfectly in the waist and the stretch it back to that state afterwards or should I size one up?
How is shrinkage on the xx-007 and how is stretching abilities on them?

 

The waist stretched out past presoak for me. Thighs around a little under presoak. 

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5 hours ago, Foxy2 said:

I understand that people can be happy with the fact that in in some countries oversea purchases are not scanned on a regular basis by the respecive customs agencies (and that existing laws and regulations are not enforced, or fly under the radar).

For brands with own distribution and/or no intentention to expand into oversea markets that can be OK, too.

Brands that do have oversea distribution partners, intend to develop these, or want to control their image will realize that the above mentioned situation is certainly unsustainable and counter-productive in the mid- to long-term. PBJ has to act in the interest of their partners.

One way is to prohibit oversea sales or, at least to discourage them. Setting an international sales price is actually quite "smart" or "educational" in some regards: the (domestic) retailers are still allowed to ship and any potential custom charges would be on top of the international price...

I'm pretty sure that PBJ's interest is not to make extra money but to discourage by-passing of existing local distributers which carry the full cost of regular/legal importation.

The real problem are the differences in cost and taxation along with the protective measures that exist between different countries - and, I am not saying that free, un-restricted trade is the only solution. But, I certainly believe that PBJ has every right to act in their partner's interest.

Hi. But aren't you assuming that other countries have the same import/customs/whatever-else-laws as the States? What about countries, like Hong Kong, where there are no such laws and regulations, thus no such charges? I now have to pay an extra 30-40% for my purchase for no other reason than to appease US retailers operating under US laws, none of which are my concern (or at least, shouldn't be).

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8 hours ago, ShootThePier said:

I could very well be wrong too.

I'm not against price increases, but I am against increases that are not due to increased cost to produce or supply and demand issues.

Don't forget this price increase does nothing to add value for the end user. This price increase is for BIG to have price protection, to gain more of an existing market, by taking away sales from OD and Denimio. PBJ is not getting the extra $. OD and Denimio are not paying extra $. Will BIG sell as much more product as OD and Denimio MAY lose? Tough to guesstimate that one. Who will lose? Customers lose $, PBJ may lose sales. Maybe decreased volume means somebody loses a job. Nobody wins.

What happens when cost to produce does increase? It will be that much more difficult to pass on the legitimate increase.

What did OD put in their letter? 30-40% increase? That is a tough pill to swallow that any conscientious consumer would have to stop and question. BIG and PBJ wanted consumers to look at BIG as a retailer due to price. Might those same people looking to BIG based upon price, now also consider other brands based upon price? It's possible. BIG and PBJ have already used price as a motivator. It has the potential to backfire.

Again, I very well could be wrong.

Agree. And especially when you are looking at 30-40% with zero added value

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6 hours ago, Blend said:

Hi. But aren't you assuming that other countries have the same import/customs/whatever-else-laws as the States? What about countries, like Hong Kong, where there are no such laws and regulations, thus no such charges? I now have to pay an extra 30-40% for my purchase for no other reason than to appease US retailers operating under US laws, none of which are my concern (or at least, shouldn't be).

Hi there, too.
I'm not sure that I can follow you're argument - the fact that there are differences in cost, taxation and customs between a given home country and Hong Kong or Japan ,respectively, does not entitle one to anything.
certainly, one would want to take advantage of these situations and, hopefullyy, one would want to do this in accordance with one's home country's laws and regulations...

I don't know which country you live in, but ,based on Japan's protective scheme (when it comes to imports) I assume your home country has most likely a restrictive import scheme very similar to the US or EU.

one can certainly travel to Japan and/or countries that have very easy import schemes (Hong Kong, Macau and, probably, Singapore) and purchase goods while in-country. maybe there is even a VAT re-fund scheme.
However, in the end one can onlyhope for staying within the boundaries of the official regulations when passing through the customs section upon re-entering your home country - or, simply put, hope that one's home country customs officers won't check you...
also, one can order from oversea shops and hope that they ship to oversea customers at domestic prices - still, in the end, one is subject to the regulations of one's home country once the pacels pass through that customs section.

over the past 10 years we have seen a few things happen:
- the internet makingmaking oversea goods and price visible
- payment systems and internet trading platforms enabling overseas transactions at a faster rate and higher ease (enabling one to forego proxies and related costs)
- customs offices more strongly applying and enforcing existing custom regulations on oversea parcels containing private purchases
- cutomers asking overseas shops to falsify the value of said parcels
- custom officers demaning actual invoices to determine the custom costs and checking the internet for actual prices
- certain oversea shops and brand stores refusing to falsify parcel values or refusing to handle oversea customers in general

taking Warehouse and and FullCount as examples:
- Warehouse webstore will handle oversea shipments, but will not falsify pacel values
- FullCount webstore will not handle shipments outside of Japan
it appears that in both cases the respective webstore is fully or partially owned by the brand and that these policies reflect each brand's take on the oversea markets and the interest of their oversea trading partners.
for sure, PBJ's answer to the problem is to allow their oversea trading partners to recapture their costs while trying to regulate those domestic retailers that cater to an oversea market on the basis that their customers' home country custom's office may or may not exercise custom dusties.

I simply believe that existing custom cost avoidance schemes do not entitle anybody to anything and that it is in PBJ's own best interest to control and level the "oversea playing field" while building and developing oversea trading partners.

(Sure, there is the odd chance that one lives in a country without acces to an official trading partner - but I, personally, respect PJB's business decission to focus on long-term solutions aiming to provide authentic products, stable supply, reliable business partners and quality service in the respective markets.certainly, their interest in the oversea market or the interest of their overseas trading partners has outweighted the interest in oversea business conducted by OD and Denimio. if one is to consider PBJ's approach counter-prodcutive, short-sighted, stupid or greedy one could be better off not buying their products...)

i hope this is not too lenghty or comes across as patronizing...
 

Edited by Foxy2

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The thing is, here is the states we are not avoiding customs by ordering directly from Japan. Any package with a value of $800 or less is duty-free. No need to falsify values or anything like that.

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Has anyone handled the new 22oz denim or bought a pair yet?

Thought's?

Edited by UkeNo

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9 minutes ago, pudaspriest said:

The thing is, here is the states we are not avoiding customs by ordering directly from Japan. Any package with a value of $800 or less is duty-free. No need to falsify values or anything like that.

Yeah, vs. €22 for Germany for everything from outside the EU...

I try to get as much stuff as possible from EU shops if there's a bargain to be had, but €22 is so ridiculous, I understand everyone who's falsifying the shit out of values. (To be clear, value over €22 means having to pay VAT, and value over €150 means adding customs fees on top.)

So while I fully understand that local customs laws and regulations are not PBJ's concern I also fully understand the anger about this.

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Pretty much the same in UK. But you also have to add the 'admin' charges of the UK based couriers that complete the delivery. 

 

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Right, my example is for everything delivered by DHL/Deutsche Post - Fedex etc. also charge their own fees on top.

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7 hours ago, Foxy2 said:

Hi there, too.
I'm not sure that I can follow you're argument - the fact that there are differences in cost, taxation and customs between a given home country and Hong Kong or Japan ,respectively, does not entitle one to anything.
certainly, one would want to take advantage of these situations and, hopefullyy, one would want to do this in accordance with one's home country's laws and regulations...

I don't know which country you live in, but ,based on Japan's protective scheme (when it comes to imports) I assume your home country has most likely a restrictive import scheme very similar to the US or EU.

one can certainly travel to Japan and/or countries that have very easy import schemes (Hong Kong, Macau and, probably, Singapore) and purchase goods while in-country. maybe there is even a VAT re-fund scheme.
However, in the end one can onlyhope for staying within the boundaries of the official regulations when passing through the customs section upon re-entering your home country - or, simply put, hope that one's home country customs officers won't check you...
also, one can order from oversea shops and hope that they ship to oversea customers at domestic prices - still, in the end, one is subject to the regulations of one's home country once the pacels pass through that customs section.

over the past 10 years we have seen a few things happen:
- the internet makingmaking oversea goods and price visible
- payment systems and internet trading platforms enabling overseas transactions at a faster rate and higher ease (enabling one to forego proxies and related costs)
- customs offices more strongly applying and enforcing existing custom regulations on oversea parcels containing private purchases
- cutomers asking overseas shops to falsify the value of said parcels
- custom officers demaning actual invoices to determine the custom costs and checking the internet for actual prices
- certain oversea shops and brand stores refusing to falsify parcel values or refusing to handle oversea customers in general

taking Warehouse and and FullCount as examples:
- Warehouse webstore will handle oversea shipments, but will not falsify pacel values
- FullCount webstore will not handle shipments outside of Japan
it appears that in both cases the respective webstore is fully or partially owned by the brand and that these policies reflect each brand's take on the oversea markets and the interest of their oversea trading partners.
for sure, PBJ's answer to the problem is to allow their oversea trading partners to recapture their costs while trying to regulate those domestic retailers that cater to an oversea market on the basis that their customers' home country custom's office may or may not exercise custom dusties.

I simply believe that existing custom cost avoidance schemes do not entitle anybody to anything and that it is in PBJ's own best interest to control and level the "oversea playing field" while building and developing oversea trading partners.

(Sure, there is the odd chance that one lives in a country without acces to an official trading partner - but I, personally, respect PJB's business decission to focus on long-term solutions aiming to provide authentic products, stable supply, reliable business partners and quality service in the respective markets.certainly, their interest in the oversea market or the interest of their overseas trading partners has outweighted the interest in oversea business conducted by OD and Denimio. if one is to consider PBJ's approach counter-prodcutive, short-sighted, stupid or greedy one could be better off not buying their products...)

i hope this is not too lenghty or comes across as patronizing...
 

Hi Foxy. Thanks for the lengthy response and no issues here with its tone. We may be just coming from different perspectives.

I acknowledge your comments and opinions about the question of "customs cost avoidance". And this seems to be one of the thrusts as to why you tend to have no issue with the PBJ price rise. I also acknowledge there are a broader range of points you have raised, but most of them are perhaps less pertinent to my point.

"Customs cost avoidance" is a non-issue for me as I live in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is a free port and does not levy any duty on imports. There is no sales tax or any other import charges. So, essentially, I could (and arguably should be able to) buy directly from companies in japan who are willing to sell internationally at Japanese retail prices (or near to, taking into account the shipping fees).

My issue as I see it, is that the "international pricing policy" means a significant increase (30-40%+) to the price I have to pay. Furthermore, that increased price is not due to increased costs of materials or production, etc, but simply due to placating the US retailers, who do have to deal with all those extra costs outlined above. If my understanding is correct, the prices for all countries outside of Japan is being forced to match the inflated prices charged by US retailers. So, instead of paying the cost price, plus mark-up for reasonable profit, and the shipping cost to import here to Hong Kong, the new PBJ product cost for me includes all those extra charges that are part of importing for US businesses and nothing to do with importing here to Hong Kong. 

I'm certainly no expert in these areas and been trying to understand why it is so many in the US are OK with it (retailers aside, as I understand their interest). I do know that the effect of this policy has a significant impact on my situation. Nevertheless, as you mentioned, there are enough quality options out there these days to simply choose another brand. And I'm happy to do so, and will do so. 

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1 hour ago, Blend said:

Hi Foxy. Thanks for the lengthy response and no issues here with its tone. We may be just coming from different perspectives.

I acknowledge your comments and opinions about the question of "customs cost avoidance". And this seems to be one of the thrusts as to why you tend to have no issue with the PBJ price rise. I also acknowledge there are a broader range of points you have raised, but most of them are perhaps less pertinent to my point.

"Customs cost avoidance" is a non-issue for me as I live in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is a free port and does not levy any duty on imports. There is no sales tax or any other import charges. So, essentially, I could (and arguably should be able to) buy directly from companies in japan who are willing to sell internationally at Japanese retail prices (or near to, taking into account the shipping fees).

My issue as I see it, is that the "international pricing policy" means a significant increase (30-40%+) to the price I have to pay. Furthermore, that increased price is not due to increased costs of materials or production, etc, but simply due to placating the US retailers, who do have to deal with all those extra costs outlined above. If my understanding is correct, the prices for all countries outside of Japan is being forced to match the inflated prices charged by US retailers. So, instead of paying the cost price, plus mark-up for reasonable profit, and the shipping cost to import here to Hong Kong, the new PBJ product cost for me includes all those extra charges that are part of importing for US businesses and nothing to do with importing here to Hong Kong. 

I'm certainly no expert in these areas and been trying to understand why it is so many in the US are OK with it (retailers aside, as I understand their interest). I do know that the effect of this policy has a significant impact on my situation. Nevertheless, as you mentioned, there are enough quality options out there these days to simply choose another brand. And I'm happy to do so, and will do so. 

I think the main problem here is if people can buy from retailers in Japan for 30-40% cheaper than the local resellers outside of Japan, then eventually no resellers outside of Japan will carry PBJ. For example, I see Take5 in Hong Kong carries some PBJs and they are more expensive than buying from Denimio and OD. So I dont really see why people in Hong Kong will buy from Take5. I am guessing PBJ probably did the calculations on what is gonna cost them if they loose all the wholesalers outside of Japan.

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I'm pretty sure PBJ consider HK covered with Benny/Take5 - at least in the past he was very keen on making sure that he would represent certain brands exclusively...
Take5's prices in the past used to sit slightly above the domestic Japan price (after deducting some "special customer" bonus %), reflecting his shipping codt, handling cost, exchange rate fluctuations and his costs - this and a few other points made Take5 my go-to address when living in GZ.

I would think he has a HK price that is lower than the new "International Price".

Edited by Foxy2

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I think nobody objects to a small uptick in price for the convenience of actually trying stuff on. Also being able to get stuff "right now" instead of having to wait to take delivery is worth it few bucks ;)

Edited by Cucoo

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4 hours ago, Niro said:

Pretty much the same in UK. But you also have to add the 'admin' charges of the UK based couriers that complete the delivery. 

 

The other week I ordered a tshirt from the USA,  paid 36 dollars  (29gbp)plus shipping ,   when it  got here Royal Mail stung me for 8 quid for VAT (fair cop) then another 8 quid handling... for me going to the post office to collect it myself! 

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^ Sorry, but that's so f*cked up it made me laugh - they charged you handling and you had to pick it up??  wonderful!

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Yup. That's Royal Mails handling fee....

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That's really fucked up, at least Deutsche Post doesn't charge you for the customs process itself.

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3 hours ago, Geeman said:

The other week I ordered a tshirt from the USA,  paid 36 dollars  (29gbp)plus shipping ,   when it  got here Royal Mail stung me for 8 quid for VAT (fair cop) then another 8 quid handling... for me going to the post office to collect it myself! 

god damn, and I thought Parcelforce were bad enough with their £13.50 charge

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5 hours ago, ryan123 said:

I think the main problem here is if people can buy from retailers in Japan for 30-40% cheaper than the local resellers outside of Japan, then eventually no resellers outside of Japan will carry PBJ. For example, I see Take5 in Hong Kong carries some PBJs and they are more expensive than buying from Denimio and OD. So I dont really see why people in Hong Kong will buy from Take5. I am guessing PBJ probably did the calculations on what is gonna cost them if they loose all the wholesalers outside of Japan.

Yeah, I get that. As Cucoo mentioned some customers don't mind paying a bit more for the convenience of a bricks and mortar experience and being able to get the product immediately. These are the ways a reseller can add value and justify an extra cost. Again, the issue I have is that the reseller price everywhere has been dictated to by US retailers with their artificially inflated prices to cover the various taxes/duties/levies/whatevers that their country chooses to impose. I get the dollars and sense of the decision, I just find it grossly distasteful and this type of questioning and debate is good and healthy.

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5 hours ago, Foxy2 said:

I'm pretty sure PBJ consider HK covered with through Benny/Take5 - at least in the past he was very keen on making sure that he would represent certain brands exclusively...
Take5's price in the past used to sit slightly above the domestic Japan price, reflecting his shipping and handling cost as well as exchange rate fluctuations and his costs - this and a few other points made Take5 my go-to address when living in GZ.

Yeah, and as mentioned, some customers are happy to use places like Take5 and pay a bit more (commesurate with those advantages). On the downside, Take5 only carry a small number of models (currently 6 online) with nowhere near the variety and choices one could get through OD (closer to 30 different models along with shirts, jackets, accessories, etc). Unfortunately, even Take5 will have to raise their prices to match the new IPP. While PBJ may hope business out this way will all channel through Take5 with the change, it's highly unlikely. I think customers are more likely to just look to other brand choices in the market.

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Brick and mortar stores cannot match selection offered by online stockists that operate out of some sort of warehouse, because they simply do not have the space. So I can understand why people would be highly frustrated by this move, especially when products they want are not stocked by their local brick and mortar store.

I also think that the exposure that these brick and mortar stores provide to a brand maybe underestimated here (and generally online)

Edited by Niro

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Plus, Take5 used to order upon request items they did not stock with the seasonal inventory...

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