The Flat Head

[BrownMetallic]

^ it's cool, mikecch!

@ggis: Notmuch info on actual person behind RingRing. Most denimheads know him to be vastly knowledgeable in textile, denim, clothes manufacturing, etc.

Edited October 3, 2016 by BrownMetallic

[Broark]

Would love another SExFH jean in the future.

Most of them were before my time sadly.

[garden gnomes in space]

^ it's cool, mikecch!

@ggis: Notmuch info on actual person behind RingRing. Most denimheads know him to be vastly knowledgeable in textile, denim, clothes manufacturing, etc.

so, the same mystery as Tanuki?  LOL

[Niro]

I like those blue laces on the boots

[BrownMetallic]

@ggis: Maybe its the same dude?!?!?!

 Button:

CHECKOUT the BUTTONs on the TANUKIs!!! 😱

Would love another SExFH jean in the future.

Most of them were before my time sadly.

Werd! SExFHxRJB right about now !!! Edited October 3, 2016 by BrownMetallic

[1fookntitefd]

I too would love to see a SEx FH or SE x RJB jean !

[itsbenhere]

I'd really love RJB jeans that weren't slim as fuck... sigh

[Broark]

I'd really love RJB jeans that weren't slim as fuck... sigh

 

Exactly. SExFJxRJB in a straighter leg cut.

I'd be all over that.

But I'm just thinking out loud. 

[ReverendGlasseye]

I believe the 105/106BSP have straighter cuts using the SExFHxRJB denim. However, the shorter rise is killing it for me.

[itsbenhere]

Closest would be 105, but the thighs on those aren't loose at all. It's like a slim straight.

[Broark]

Yeah I'm thinking a bit more rise/thigh room.

I have a pair of 105's I got off eBay for cheap awhile back and they're too slim in the thigh for me and the rise is too low.

[garden gnomes in space]

@ggis: Maybe its the same dude?!?!?!

CHECKOUT the BUTTONs on the TANUKIs!!!

Werd! SExFHxRJB right about now !!!

[mikecch]

OMG! CONFIRMED KOBAYASHI BEHIND TANUKI!

[itsbenhere]

What's weird is those buttons seem out of place on the ringrings... I definitely prefer the standard stuff you see on flat head!

 

I really hope there isn't some connection! 

[oomslokop]

thanks for the ringring shots, @bm. look forward to following its slow disintegration in the next five years.

[BrownMetallic]

^

@Ooms ... 5yrs?!?! That's a lot of pressure ... u got waaay too much faith in me, my friend

[Cold Summer]

Believe me guys, the fact that those happen to have similar-looking buttons is just a coincidence, they're probably a stock button sold by YKK or something that both brands just happened to use. Knowing Kobayashi, I think it's pretty safe to say there is no way in the world he has any involvement with Tanuki. 

 

What I think most western denim fans don't realize is that Flat Head is incredibly insular. These guys moved their seasonal expo away from Tokyo (where everyone else does it) to Nagano, among other things. To be honest, I don't think any of this has really been good for them, particularly for their overseas business. This is pure observation/speculation on my part, but I feel that Kobayashi is surrounded by yes-men and does basically whatever he wants without any accountability (which is where we get weird stuff like Hardbird, the IMO unnecessary MK Label, and so on.) The only pushback they ever get is from western retailers, who understandably try to get products that will sell (and fit) outside of Japan. FH has little interaction with others in their industry aside from the Super Weekend event, where other brands like Samurai and Dry Bones will sell some stuff. But it's always on Flat Head's terms.

 

None of this really affects customers of western retailers, which curate everything to put FH's best foot forward, but if you spend some time in Japan, you start to notice it. I'm 2.5 years removed from working for them, but based on what I hear from talking to people who work with them, it doesn't sound like much has changed.

 

My favorite conspiracy theory, though, is that Kobayashi actually gets all his money from the insurance company he started/owns, and Flat Head (and associated brands) are basically a vanity project that can afford to do basically whatever. 

[BrownMetallic]

What's weird is those buttons seem out of place on the ringrings... I definitely prefer the standard stuff you see on flat head!

I really hope there isn't some connection!

@The time of its creation [circa 2010], the jean collab was purported to be an updated/version 2.0 of the 5-pocket standard. Modern cut jeans rendition on an honest-to-goodness Japanese selvedge denim was still considered a rarity, but @$485 retail, that was not happening for me.

SelfEdge: " Asking Flathead to produce like this, while adding their touches and thoughts, wasn't an easy task. They've never ventured far from the standard 5-Pocket jean design and this definitely opened up new concerns and ideas in relation to producing a non-standard jean for them .... "-

Edited October 5, 2016 by BrownMetallic

[Iron Horse]

My favorite conspiracy theory, though, is that Kobayashi actually gets all his money from the insurance company he started/owns, and Flat Head (and associated brands) are basically a vanity project that can afford to do basically whatever. 

 

 

Isn't this basically the case with the Real McCoy's too? The real money came from the restaurant business and RMC was essentially a big hobby, or so I have read.

[Cold Summer]

Could be, though I'm not real familiar with RMC.

[itsbenhere]

I was thinking that they could be stock buttons but I thought that would just be really weird considering they don't do like anything stock. And that jean was crazy expensive so you think it'd be even less likely to use something stock for it.

I also agree with what you say about the weird directions. Ive always felt this way but it's perhaps gotten worse recently; what I like from flat head I think is the best of the best. On the other hand, the things I don't like, I really don't like, and it's probably like 40% of the catalogue.

Why do you think the MK label is unnecessary? Because it's "luxury" and flat head is so beyond luxury already it's insane to make anything better? Personally I think it's so cool to be always striving to be better no matter what. I love the idea of hand stitched tendon thread from their wallets on the pockets of their MK jeans, even if the price is insane.

And I was talking to blue nemo a while ago and he told me that for the new rayon shirts they're actually woven at the same place the emperor gets his clothes at, and that they should be way more expensive than they are (which is already insanely expensive), but kobayashi wanted to keep the price in this stratosphere at cost or even losing a bit. So maybe the insurance theory holds water

[edmond]

rmc makes money from producing hospital wares. and importing and selling them in japan.

 

also stainless hospital wares thats made in japan and exported abroad

[Cold Summer]

I'm the same way Ben. The good stuff FH produces is the best, but I do think the brand could benefit a lot from a little more critical oversight in the design department - an experienced designer with good judgment who would have the majority of creative control, akin to someone like Hedi Slimane. Something like this would inject a new energy and ideas into the brand, but admittedly this is coming from my relatively recent interest in more contemporary fashion and brands.

 

Yeah, I think that RJB already has them covered on high-end luxury stuff, between FH and RJB I think they have everything significant covered. It feels like stuff that would otherwise go under the RJB banner, just re-labeled by slapping Kobayashi's name on more stuff.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Yeah I didn't understand for what the MK line is. It didn't strike me as something uber luxury or perfect. It didn't stand out in my eyes but I haven't looked deep into them.

[ShootThePier]

MK is more expensive. Personally I would rather try Samurai AI before MK.

[1fookntitefd]

Curious, what is so special about the MK line? Is there a different fabric than is readily available for all other FH models? Other than the red MK stitching, it does not look any different than a typical 3xxx cut with suede arcs.

[ShootThePier]

I believe MK is 16oz vs 13.5/14 of FH/RBJ. There is probably more to it than that, but that was my first impression.

[itsbenhere]

Like i mentioned before, I think the main thing is the stitching. The backpockets and the front pockets are stitched by hand using the tendon thread that you find in your wallets. That kind of thread is already next level for wallets, to put it on jeans (handstitched) is just insane. I think it probably takes a long time and I think it's really cool.

 

I think the denim is the same and you have the arcs and patch which I believe are from the same place ferrari gets their materials but other than that nothing crazy.

[ShootThePier]

Forgot about the tendon.

[dudewuttheheck]

Like i mentioned before, I think the main thing is the stitching. The backpockets and the front pockets are stitched by hand using the tendon thread that you find in your wallets. That kind of thread is already next level for wallets, to put it on jeans (handstitched) is just insane. I think it probably takes a long time and I think it's really cool.

 

I think the denim is the same and you have the arcs and patch which I believe are from the same place ferrari gets their materials but other than that nothing crazy.

I love that about it as well. I don't like the arcs, but otherwise I'm kinda tempted by them.