The Flat Head

[mikkadehachikai]

Thanks for the replies. 

 

Would anyone comment (I know it is purely subjective and somewhat personal) on the difference between the quality of horsehide leather of TFH and Aero jackets?

 

Thanks

[itsbenhere]

The fqhh is like armor and has no grain... The vicenza by all accounts looks nice but imo is like a bootleg shinki.

The main thing though is the style and construction... Aero is just the classic clunky western version, and flat head is the elegant Japanese one. Look at the stitching, flat head is tighter, closer to the seams, just looks better.

And you're in Japan right? So you can order from aero and get gnarly leather customs fees, or buy from a marked up stockist in Japan. Flat head is on another level... But just check them out! Only downside is that the fit might be a bit tricky.

[mikecch]

The shinki veg tanned horse on TFH has more grain and is a little more even in tone.

 

Horween's CXL FQHH on Aero is oilier but a little more variegated, with the grain having a more corrected feel.

 

IMO the shinki horse is a classier and higher end leather, whereas the CXL FQHH is more rugged and water-resistant.

P.S. I like Clayton horsehide the best.

Edited July 24, 2016 by mikecch

[dudewuttheheck]

Thanks for the replies. 

 

Would anyone comment (I know it is purely subjective and somewhat personal) on the difference between the quality of horsehide leather of TFH and Aero jackets?

 

Thanks

It depends on which Aero leather. There are two main leathers - chromexcel HH and Vicenza HH. 

 

The chromexcel is thick, heavy, and like armor. It is chrome tanned and in many peoples' opinion (including my own) it is rather dull and boring. It doesn't really have a ton of character. I love chromexcel and other horween leathers for boots, but not for jackets. 

 

The Vicenza is pretty nice. It is actually offered in a pretty awesome natural leather. This is vegetable tanned so it has more character than the chromexcel. It is apparently rather light - even lighter than Shinki. It's nice, but honestly in my opinion, Shinki is even nicer.

 

The Shinki that FH uses is actually slightly thicker than normal Shinki. The interesting thing is that Shinki can differ slightly depending on which maker you buy it from. If you want to know more about that, I can tell you, but it isn't necessarily relevant. Shinki is gorgeous in any guise. It starts off rather simple, but with a great depth of color and it ages very gracefully. It is rather thick compared to some other veg-tanned HH leathers. Still, it's not uncomfortable.

 

I would always advise to go with Shinki. There is a reason that both leather jackets I own are Shinki.

 

Also, FH make better jackets than Aeros IMO.

 

If you want, I could post a couple of videos I made discussing this, but my goal isn't to promote myself.

Edited July 24, 2016 by dudewuttheheck

[mikecch]

^ CXL is chrome tannage base with vegetable finish.

 

Do show us the video!

Edited July 24, 2016 by mikecch

[mikkadehachikai]

That is very interesting, I always welcome some new topics to learn, so please feel free to post . There is an Aero dealer in Nagano, I believe, but he does not have stock in each and every model in every size. So, since I won't be going there soon and even if I went, there might not be my size to try on, I needed to ask just for reference, to know what I am potentially missing out. GBP lost against the JPY a bit of its value so it is not so much expensive. I am mostly torn between the TFH and the Buco J-100, went couple of times to try them one more time for a *final* decision ......

[dudewuttheheck]

^ CXL is chrome tannage base with vegetable finish.

 

Do show us the video!

It's a long video, haha. It's a discussion about basically all the high end leather jacket makers and leathers.

Here you go! 

[itsbenhere]

Did you find the j-100 comfortable? My biggest problem was how straight the shoulders were and how high and tight the armhole was. It made for a very awkward fit.

As you probably know the flat head has curved shoulders and a lower and larger armpit with larger arms, which is way more comfortable to me.

But I think real mccoys and flat head are definitely in the next league compared to aero

[Cold Summer]

Here's my input as someone who owns an Aero jacket but has handled a ton of FH leather jackets:

 

- The FQHH leather that comes standard on Aero jackets is gross.

- The Vicenza Italian horsehide on my Aero is very similar to Shinki's horsehide that FH uses. The weight feels just about identical to me (both are very substantial, people who think the Vicenza isn't heavy enough are whack. I would not want my jacket any heavier than it is.) The biggest difference is that the black Shinki horsehide is very prone to patina via abrasion, the black scrapes away easily revealing brown underneath (I think because of the semi-aniline finish.) This leads to some really cool evo. Otherwise, the sheen/grain/feel/etc. is very similar.

- The construction quality feels about the same to me. In other words, both are very nice. The Aero is a better value.

- Ignore the old guy pictures you see online, it's not hard to get a custom Aero that will be an attractive slim fit (like mine.) The only reason I'd discourage you from Aero based on fit is if you're after a really slim designer fashion look like Saint Laurent Paris or Falcon, but you wouldn't be buying a jacket made from horsehide for that look (or posting in this thread.)

 

If you don't mind paying more, and the OTR fit is perfect for you - then go with Flat Head. Otherwise, I think Aero offers a better value, particularly for Western people for whom Japanese stuff doesn't always fit well.

[itsbenhere]

In terms of value I'd agree Aero is better purely because they are among the cheapest makers that gets into quality jackets. Especially since the pound is in the shitter...

 

But I think that if you want the best of the best flat head or the japanese brands would give you what you want. Thinner seams, straight zippers, nicer-looking stitching, better leather (others think shinki is nicer than vicenza)

 

And even if the GBP has tanked, the larger difference between buying domestic japanese and imported Aero might not still be large enough for me to recommend it.

 

All contingent on being able to fit the japanese stuff, but you should be able to decide that yourself since you can actually try the stuff on. 

 

Good luck!

[dudewuttheheck]

In terms of value I'd agree Aero is better purely because they are among the cheapest makers that gets into quality jackets. Especially since the pound is in the shitter...

 

But I think that if you want the best of the best flat head or the japanese brands would give you what you want. Thinner seams, straight zippers, nicer-looking stitching, better leather (others think shinki is nicer than vicenza)

 

And even if the GBP has tanked, the larger difference between buying domestic japanese and imported Aero might not still be large enough for me to recommend it.

 

All contingent on being able to fit the japanese stuff, but you should be able to decide that yourself since you can actually try the stuff on. 

 

Good luck!

Agreed. In my experience, the Japanese makers are superior to the Scottish makers. 

 

Himel and Goodwear from the US are also great options. My Himel is my favorite jacket.

[Iron Horse]

I've been reading a lot about leather jackets lately and I'll say that the Aero premiere 1930s half-belt is worth looking at, especially with a custom back to make it closer to the old Sears Hercules that many have repro'd (Goodwear Imperial, Rainbow Country single rider, older Joe McCoys).

They don't have the laser-like construction style of the FH ones though.

[mikkadehachikai]

Thanks for the feedback. 

[Niro]

I would love to try the SRJ-07A horsehide riders jacket, looks amazing, but at over £1500 i couldn't even bring myself to touch it :blink:

 

Looking to replace my Schott jacket which now I feel is slightly too large for me, and also go a step up in quality. I guess Aero is probably the next logical step up in terms of quality and price

[edmond]

Bro come on . Talk to langlitz man they are way better than any of these brands goatskin bro

[mikecch]

^ Why goat better than horse Ed?

[itsbenhere]

Langlitz/lewis are so different than the japanese leather brands... 

 

If you like either that's perfectly understandable, but i would recommend against buying a langlitz/lewis if you want a flat head

[edmond]

theyre super soft and less porous than horse and langlitz prooved that its safer when you fall off your bike than  horse.

 

also . langlitz has a fit guarantee man talk to them theyre awesome people

[edmond]

60% of a price of fh man

[itsbenhere]

Yeah way cheaper but a very different vibe I think. No experience and it's really quality I'm sure, it's just that imo it's a fundamentally different kind of leather jacket than a japanese one. 

[edmond]

Yes but you can tell them what you want and theyll do it

[mikecch]

TFH x RJB x Corlection Lot. 2109 collab review on my blog.

tl:dr A bit busy, especially all the details on the back...but the denim is really awesome, and the cut is pretty good.

 

Edited August 3, 2016 by mikecch

[Cold Summer]

Great review! As always, RJB's denim is seriously impressive. Can't wait to see what these jeans look like with some wear.

 

I think the upcoming Rivet And Hide collab uses the same denim (LHT Zimbabwe) so if some of you want the same denim on a more understated pair, that's probably where you'll want to look.

[ShootThePier]

@mikecch

What kind of shrinkage did you get on the Corlection?

Cold soak? Warm wash?

Edited August 3, 2016 by ShootThePier

[mikecch]

I didn't measure - tape was chewed by one of my dogs recently. I'm estimating shrinkage at around 8% with a quick 40°C wash.

[FeloniousMonk]

Those are a beautiful pair of jeans, albeit quite flashy. Been looking for a pair of RJBs that could fit me (generally need a bigger top block and some taper rather than a full straight leg). When I first saw this special edition, the measurements on Corlection's site put me off because the thighs looked too small and the rise looked too low.

 

When I saw in your review that you said these had a roomy top block, I went back and looked at the website measurements again and compared them to the Flat Head 3012 measurements they have up. Suffice to say, it looks like their thigh measurements are nowhere near the BIG or Self Edge-style measurements for the 3012, so I reckon they could be far off on these jeans too. (if the thighs on these really are only 0.25" smaller than the 3012s, then they should be a pretty excellent slimmer fit for me)

 

However, is the rise really as low as the measurements on the site suggest? I.e. something like a 9-10" front rise and 13" back rise post soak at a size 30-32?

[karanimal]

Those are a beautiful pair of jeans, albeit quite flashy. Been looking for a pair of RJBs that could fit me (generally need a bigger top block and some taper rather than a full straight leg). When I first saw this special edition, the measurements on Corlection's site put me off because the thighs looked too small and the rise looked too low.

 

When I saw in your review that you said these had a roomy top block, I went back and looked at the website measurements again and compared them to the Flat Head 3012 measurements they have up. Suffice to say, it looks like their thigh measurements are nowhere near the BIG or Self Edge-style measurements for the 3012, so I reckon they could be far off on these jeans too. (if the thighs on these really are only 0.25" smaller than the 3012s, then they should be a pretty excellent slimmer fit for me)

 

However, is the rise really as low as the measurements on the site suggest? I.e. something like a 9-10" front rise and 13" back rise post soak at a size 30-32?

 

Its pretty low, I'll check to see if i can dig up my measurements for the pair of 34s i sold. 

 

The top block has room, but it is quickly eaten away by the taper which starts just above the knee. A 34 should have  fit me but some how really never looked all that good on me. I may still go and pickup a 36 if they have them left

[mikecch]

However, is the rise really as low as the measurements on the site suggest? I.e. something like a 9-10" front rise and 13" back rise post soak at a size 30-32?

 

The front rise is about 11" on my size 36 post soak. But because the back rise is relatively high, it doesn't feel too low overall.

[FeloniousMonk]

Interesting... I wonder if they measure the front and back rise to the bottom of the waistband rather than the top? That would account for their rise measurements appearing to be roughly 1" shorter than what you are saying.

 

I mostly need top block room in the hips and upper thigh, as opposed to lower thigh / knee, so it sounds like this pair might work, especially when I compare Corlection's measurements for these to the 3012s that I know fit me well. Will give them a try if they ever get size 31 in stock again. Otherwise, I'll just have to keep hoping someone makes an RJB collaboration with a straight tapered fit, which fortunately seems to be the fashion these days.

[karanimal]

EDIT: I remember trying on the 36s now that i think about it and i remember thinking, woah theres a tonne of room in the waist and top block. The 34s were as if the cut of the jeans was entirely different. I should have copped the 36s  

 

Here's the measurements i took when i sold my RJB x CORL 2109, the rise was low as fuck

 

Tagged Size 34 

 

Waist 18" 
Front Rise: 10" 
Back Rise: 14" 
Thigh at crotch: 12.75" 
Thigh 2" Down: 12"
Hem: 7.5" 
Inseam: 32"

 

I had them hemmed a bit and then cold soaked them once to try to preserve any of the size i had left. Decided in the end that it wasn't worth trying to force them to work. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by karanimal