Your biggest issue with techwear is ?

[FANONO]

Hey, I've created this topis to have a conversation Guys what is your biggest issue with techwear and why ? (personal stories, unpleasant experaince, things that you dislike about techwear in general)

Let's start with me.

My biggest issue with techwear is it's realy hard to find nice jacket that will be affordable and still will look sick (not like standard north face).

[Dolphinski]

/r/techwearclothing/

 

[donburi]

"The greatest way to trap a design in the past is to endeavor to make it futuristic with earnestness. In that attempt, the designer inevitably overextends their position and conjures a cheap version of their aspirations, a subset of which are inherently unrealizable, and another subset of which are only realizable as symbolic facades."

tl;dr: the aesthetic is corny af.

this memorable quote comes from bryce hidysmith - http://www.hidysmith.com/blog/2017/5/5/small-thoughts-off-sukhamvit

[jbob24]

Oh good, Sufu has its own “bitch about techwear prices” thread.

 

We are enjoying a golden age of technical garments and if you can’t find something nice for a good price, you’re not looking very hard. 

 

If the average new users’ intent is to ape the acrnm/acrhive look for sub $200 then superfuture isn’t the forum for you.

Edited March 14, 2018 by jbob24
Buy cheap shit and show it off on Reddit

[Yoshiii]

The short and sweet version; That people are confusing techwear with a certain very limited, popularised by Instagram, aesthetic.

[drgitlin]

Did you post this exact same thread to reddit?

Personally I can't wait for all the hype kids to go find something else to fuck up. Though I do have to laugh when I look at Grailed and see all those unsold LF1s with people still asking stupid money. 

[Albm]

4 hours ago, jbob24 said:

Oh good, Sufu has its own “bitch about techwear prices” thread.

 

We are enjoying a golden age of technical garments and if you can’t find something nice for a good price, you’re not looking very hard. 

 

If the average new users’ intent is to ape the acrnm/acrhive look for sub $200 then superfuture isn’t the forum for you.

 

2 hours ago, Yoshiii said:

The short and sweet version; That people are confusing techwear with a certain very limited, popularised by Instagram, aesthetic.

Exactly these. It sucks because the market for a cheaper 'acrnm' look has been cultivated, spawning imitation brands that push nothing original. Fortunately there are some brands that are obviously influenced and have decided to sidestep away. I commend the effort of DIY'ers too, but I dislike it when the same hardware is always used (PLCE fasteners for example), not to mention colour selection or design - how many times have we seen derivatives of the 3a-3ts? 

Hopefully when Vexed Generation comes back it expands both consumers and creators desire to experiment a little, plus drive different narratives with their brands. Personally I've taken a liking to Final Home despite nothing special about the materials most of the time. I've noticed more Issey Miyake around too which is great, especially with such a large catalogue including labels such as Windcoat, meaning there's room for different cuts and colours etc. for people to pick from.

Edit: I think it's fine to learn how certain products are put together by deconstructing/making it yourself but don't just straight up copy and push it as your own with some slight visual modification on the corners of the bag or something lol 

Spoiler

I'm probably taking this topic too seriously huh? Oh well, god forbid a proper convo is made on a forum even if OP is trolling. I'm sure fans of Rick circa 2011 had the same complaints too 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Albm

[gantz]

True, there is too much acrnm look "inspired" brands popping up and even if those sell for far less than Acronym, it feels overpriced given the materials/production quality they sometimes offer. If anything I hope that the techwear-look hype will truly inspire new brands to emerge, make them stick and commit to proper techwear. It's as Errolson said in the interview lately, it will be interesting to see whether after the look-hype has passed the true aspects of techwear will be acknowledged by some brands and completely new styles will appear.

[deadbilly]

Swish, swish, swish, argh shut up tech wearing fool (self directed).

[danii]

my biggest issue with techwear is acronym x nike and the aftermath.

[the-intern]

Textiles are incredibly approachable to anyone who wishes to use them. As such design has branched out into incredible new territories of materials innovations. Unfortunately understanding of the chemistry, application, and use of these technologies is very much so unapproachable. As such we have a vanguard of design 'innovation' using a lot of fancy words and sudo-science without actual grasp of the real basic chemistry and interactions with the bodies somatosensory system.

I would like to see techwear represent a new way of approaching garments and accessories, lets throw the baby out with the bathwater and truly go try new things!!!

By and large the quality across the entire outerwear apparel industry has plummeted over the past few years (it saddens to say that none moreso than Arcteryx since its acquisition by Amer Sports!!!). Designers on whole clearly don't understand the limitations of new technologies that are overhyped by the factories they work with. Also a perpetual quest to reduce cost at every stage of production simply leads to shit products... fyi Amer ownership HATES Veilance so get it while the getting still good... you can see the result in the past few seasons releases, it's clear that management is working hard to limit the hell out of the potential there... it's deeply saddening to see wings being clipped at such a key moment in this budding industry.

Techwear should be a radical statement of mans ignorance towards natures might. I wanna stand on a mountain top in a snowstorm comfy and dry with my arms in the air yelling "Fuck you nature! I win!"... and currently I am unable to do so with any market available combination of products. We have the technology now to radically eliminate product categories I think. We can simply create garments capable of doing whatever you want... no more running pants, hiking pants, office pants, etc... how about we just make "Pants" with a modularlty which allows them to face their every changing environment?!?

Anyhoo, that's my $0.02 for what it's worth.

 

Also 100% agree with @danii... since when is "All conditions" defined as a sunny day on city sidewalk... I'd love to document myself taking on a 2-week mountain expedition in a full ACG kit just to show it's failure on day 1.

[wexler]

5 hours ago, the-intern said:

Textiles are incredibly approachable to anyone who wishes to use them. As such design has branched out into incredible new territories of materials innovations. Unfortunately understanding of the chemistry, application, and use of these technologies is very much so unapproachable. As such we have a vanguard of design 'innovation' using a lot of fancy words and sudo-science without actual grasp of the real basic chemistry and interactions with the bodies somatosensory system.

I would like to see techwear represent a new way of approaching garments and accessories, lets throw the baby out with the bathwater and truly go try new things!!!

By and large the quality across the entire outerwear apparel industry has plummeted over the past few years (it saddens to say that none moreso than Arcteryx since its acquisition by Amer Sports!!!). Designers on whole clearly don't understand the limitations of new technologies that are overhyped by the factories they work with. Also a perpetual quest to reduce cost at every stage of production simply leads to shit products... fyi Amer ownership HATES Veilance so get it while the getting still good... you can see the result in the past few seasons releases, it's clear that management is working hard to limit the hell out of the potential there... it's deeply saddening to see wings being clipped at such a key moment in this budding industry.

Techwear should be a radical statement of mans ignorance towards natures might. I wanna stand on a mountain top in a snowstorm comfy and dry with my arms in the air yelling "Fuck you nature! I win!"... and currently I am unable to do so with any market available combination of products. We have the technology now to radically eliminate product categories I think. We can simply create garments capable of doing whatever you want... no more running pants, hiking pants, office pants, etc... how about we just make "Pants" with a modularlty which allows them to face their every changing environment?!?

Anyhoo, that's my $0.02 for what it's worth.

 

Also 100% agree with @danii... since when is "All conditions" defined as a sunny day on city sidewalk... I'd love to document myself taking on a 2-week mountain expedition in a full ACG kit just to show it's failure on day 1.

First off who are you and what planet did you come from?  Your 30-day diy posts over the last month have been incredible. 

Secondly, I can wholeheartedly agree with you that a lot of marketed urban tech items (specifically ACG whom you mentioned) probably wouldn't hold up for shit in real life unsatisfactory conditions. The shells and insulators may work decently in these scenarios. However, those heavy weight DWR'ed cotton cargos would not only be uncomfortable to hike in but  probably not last a trip or two in the backcountry.

I'm definately not as well verse in textiles as you, but there has to be a certain point when the performance of a garment has reached its limit due to current technology. Imo the argument of "it costs more because it's higher quality" is null and void in a lot of cases due to this. That doesn't; however, mean that companies/industry should get complacent in the pieces/products they put out. It's an ever evolving process and they should follow accordingly. One can find plenty of high quality clothing that perform well and aren't outrageously expensive.

Lastly, I originally only knew of outdoor oriented brands from traveling and backpacking experiences. I would thank a lot of folks on this forum and others for sharing info and expanding my knowledge of what to look for in good quality items. In the end, the question remains of what do you need to be comfortable for any scenario you may encounter. I feel that's what it's all about if you're truely interested in "techwear".

Edited March 16, 2018 by wexler

[EG562]

On 3/15/2018 at 4:46 AM, danii said:

my biggest issue with techwear is acronym x nike and the aftermath.

Could you elaborate, Im curious to hear your perspective. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by EG562

[the-intern]

16 hours ago, wexler said:

First off who are you and what planet did you come from?

I'm just an impassioned Martian trying to build the kit to get me back home.

[mizzar]

There are no good shoes for rainy days. 
Especially minimalist styled.

[mistersparkle]

18 hours ago, wexler said:

I'm definately not as well verse in textiles as you, but there has to be a certain point when the performance of a garment has reached its limit due to current technology. Imo the argument of "it costs more because it's higher quality" is null and void in a lot of cases due to this. That doesn't; however, mean that companies/industry should get complacent in the pieces/products they put out. It's an ever evolving process and they should follow accordingly.

Companies are doing this. I'd like to believe Schoeller is still innovating. After all, they brought us coldblack (which still seems more like marketing BS) and c_change. I know c_change isn't perfect, but I really like the concept of a fabric that reacts to changing temperatures or humidity.

And we're learning more about comfort and breathability. Before we thought 100% windproof was a necessity, but then Neoshell showed us that letting a bit of air breathe in can help with fighting clamminess and overheating. And Patagonia released their Nano-Air stuff which blew folk's minds since traditional puffy insulators have not been breathable at all--you used to wear fleece for that.

[mistersparkle]

23 hours ago, the-intern said:

Also 100% agree with @danii... since when is "All conditions" defined as a sunny day on city sidewalk... I'd love to document myself taking on a 2-week mountain expedition in a full ACG kit just to show it's failure on day 1.

Ugh.. I had a 2015 NikeLab long coat (the one with the removeable insulated layer). It was made of Gore-Tex, but someone decided to throw some pockets facing upwards with no flap or venting. What's gonna happen when it rains? I'll be collecting water for the next drought with these bucket pockets.

 

If you guys have never checked out Barbour, check out their Beaufort. That stuff was proto-techwear before Gore-Tex was even a thing. Super well thought out with cargo pockets with drainage holes, (tiny) armpit vents, moleskin-lined handwarmer pockets, and a collar that would latch to protect yo neck.

[junkie_dolphin]

On 3/15/2018 at 5:33 PM, the-intern said:

fyi Amer ownership HATES Veilance so get it while the getting still good... you can see the result in the past few seasons releases, it's clear that management is working hard to limit the hell out of the potential there... it's deeply saddening to see wings being clipped at such a key moment in this budding industry.

Depends on who you've heard this from—maybe you know someone waaaay up at the top, and you've got the super-secret-scoop—but Veilance is expanding very aggressively right now, which doesn't seem to indicate (at least to me) that it's being smothered. Arc'teryx is dumping more money into Veilance than ever before, and there's a lot in the works—plans stretching forward ~5 years at least. Now, if you've seen the stuff they're working on, and you think it all amounts to "wings being clipped..." cool, I guess. I'd just have to disagree with you.

I'm not in a position to comment on what exactly accounts for the "toning down" of Veilance in the past few years. It's hard not to look at Conroy's departure as a factor, but I'm sure there were a lot of other things going on (and it's not like Veilance is just one person—it's a whole team, and not everyone has stuck around). It's also worth pointing out that Veilance started out in a much more "restrained" mode—CPU-style garments, going for platonic simplicity. It wasn't until the second or third year that things started to get a little more experimental. We're arguably coming out the other end of that now, but you could just as easily frame it as a return to form.

On 3/15/2018 at 5:33 PM, the-intern said:

By and large the quality across the entire outerwear apparel industry has plummeted over the past few years (it saddens to say that none moreso than Arcteryx since its acquisition by Amer Sports!!!).

Curious what "quality" means in this context. Arc'teryx still makes really solid stuff—if anything the tech is better than it was a decade ago (when Amer bought Arc'teryx).

[the-intern]

2 hours ago, junkie_dolphin said:

Depends on who you've heard this from—maybe you know someone waaaay up at the top, and you've got the super-secret-scoop—but Veilance is expanding very aggressively right now, which doesn't seem to indicate (at least to me) that it's being smothered.

Curious what "quality" means in this context. Arc'teryx still makes really solid stuff—if anything the tech is better than it was a decade ago (when Amer bought Arc'teryx).

I've sniffed around their yard a bit yes. Perhaps whats been shared is some sacred secret - though it wasn't presented as such. Despite the expansion the intent is clear in results that cost is a new priority. In the past several years my favorite and trusted dead bird models, items tried and tested, have been loosing features, pocket counts, new fit and sizes, less integration between models, and build quality is on a decline.  And increase in product offering doesn't mean much when the most of them share the ~same patterns.

Its precisely the "tech" you speak of that I have issue with... why are zippers being laminated when stitching is stronger for example? When there's no testable metric that justifies that particular 'innovation' its just tech for tech sake.

There's wild potential still with deadbird methinks, but they lost their aggressive sociopathic innovators years ago. I don't blame Amer for the behavior... Arc pioneered water resistant zippers and let the IP slide, they brought hardfleece and softshell tech to market and let the IP slide, the list like this is long... they've literally handed away billions in industry control and they deserve the recourse the new owners are putting in place.

I'll note that I own practically the entire arcteryx alpine product line, and have dedicated myself to their product ecosystem and have put my life in their hands countless times. The decline in quality I saw was the spark the pulled me into making my own kit... shit today is more "technological" sure... but simply not as 'good' as it was in the ~2010 era.

I have 2009 gamma ar pants that have outlasted their 2017 model equivilants.... which shredded when a took a little whipper climbing this summer, whereas the old model has stood up to everything for nearly a decade and laughed it off.

no argument can change that they (and most others) are now a publicly traded business. Legally beholden to shareholders to yield growth. Profit is the endgame there now.

Edited March 17, 2018 by the-intern

[wexler]

6 hours ago, mistersparkle said:

Companies are doing this. I'd like to believe Schoeller is still innovating. After all, they brought us coldblack (which still seems more like marketing BS) and c_change. I know c_change isn't perfect, but I really like the concept of a fabric that reacts to changing temperatures or humidity.

And we're learning more about comfort and breathability. Before we thought 100% windproof was a necessity, but then Neoshell showed us that letting a bit of air breathe in can help with fighting clamminess and overheating. And Patagonia released their Nano-Air stuff which blew folk's minds since traditional puffy insulators have not been breathable at all--you used to wear fleece for that.

Definately agree with you and it's really nice to see innovative textiles coming out. 

As for Patagonia I think you can get some really nice pieces for pretty low price points. Although it doesn't have the wild designs and well fitting cuts of brands like acrnm, Veilance, Poutnik etc... I have used a Patagonia down sweater for numerous backpacking trips. It's 850 fill power and packs down to about 1 liter in the chest pocket. It's a perfect mid layer that's light, small, incredibly warm, and durable.

[wexler]

7 hours ago, mistersparkle said:

If you guys have never checked out Barbour, check out their Beaufort. That stuff was proto-techwear before Gore-Tex was even a thing. Super well thought out with cargo pockets with drainage holes, (tiny) armpit vents, moleskin-lined handwarmer pockets, and a collar that would latch to protect yo neck.

Sorry meant to acknowledge this in my other post but I'm on mobile (or technologically incompetent) and had a cocktail or two. Seconding that Barbour had/has some very nice tech pieces. Not really my style at the moment but can work well in fits and keep a low-key/clean look.

[mizzar]

6 hours ago, the-intern said:

I've sniffed around their yard a bit yes. Perhaps whats been shared is some sacred secret - though it wasn't presented as such. Despite the expansion the intent is clear in results that cost is a new priority. In the past several years my favorite and trusted dead bird models, items tried and tested, have been loosing features, pocket counts, new fit and sizes, less integration between models, and build quality is on a decline.  And increase in product offering doesn't mean much when the most of them share the ~same patterns.

Its precisely the "tech" you speak of that I have issue with... why are zippers being laminated when stitching is stronger for example? When there's no testable metric that justifies that particular 'innovation' its just tech for tech sake.

There's wild potential still with deadbird methinks, but they lost their aggressive sociopathic innovators years ago. I don't blame Amer for the behavior... Arc pioneered water resistant zippers and let the IP slide, they brought hardfleece and softshell tech to market and let the IP slide, the list like this is long... they've literally handed away billions in industry control and they deserve the recourse the new owners are putting in place.

I'll note that I own practically the entire arcteryx alpine product line, and have dedicated myself to their product ecosystem and have put my life in their hands countless times. The decline in quality I saw was the spark the pulled me into making my own kit... shit today is more "technological" sure... but simply not as 'good' as it was in the ~2010 era.

I have 2009 gamma ar pants that have outlasted their 2017 model equivilants.... which shredded when a took a little whipper climbing this summer, whereas the old model has stood up to everything for nearly a decade and laughed it off.

no argument can change that they (and most others) are now a publicly traded business. Legally beholden to shareholders to yield growth. Profit is the endgame there now.

Even Veilance stuff quality declined, friend of mine had 2013 partition coat, needed some repairs, sadly non repairable, received some 2017 coat, and the way zipper was stitched  just lazy and slacky... so thats why i'm, like you, now trying to make something that would fill that void for when my own 2011 partition coat goes out.
Have some stretch  NeoShell, have my patternmaking skills and friends on a small factory with seam sealing eqt.
 

[akuma no uta]

XL in most tops aren’t big enough for broad shoulders and 36 as the largest size of pants is ridiculous. 

 

Id think clothing based around movement would be possible for those with “active” body types but it seems as with all other fashion it’s cut for scrawny pencil necked geeks. 

[CB200]

Style>substance. Surface>depth. The trap of viewing of techwear as a styling of clothes, or worse shopping from an approved list of brands, over thoughtful design and the affordances that the combination of technology and design brings. 

[tv_ice]

Putting on my sequents and walking into the dead silence of the law library like swish swish Swish SWISH SWISH

[Floorboards]

On 3/17/2018 at 4:24 PM, tv_ice said:

Putting on my sequents and walking into the dead silence of the law library like swish swish Swish SWISH SWISH

honestly came on here to talk about being "that crackly arsehole" if I wear any kind of waterproof membrane to the cinema

[AnomalousTautology]

On 3/17/2018 at 9:24 AM, tv_ice said:

Putting on my sequents and walking into the dead silence of the law library like swish swish Swish SWISH SWISH

this is too real

[CARLOOA]

On 3/16/2018 at 8:38 PM, the-intern said:

I've sniffed around their yard a bit yes. Perhaps whats been shared is some sacred secret - though it wasn't presented as such. Despite the expansion the intent is clear in results that cost is a new priority. In the past several years my favorite and trusted dead bird models, items tried and tested, have been loosing features, pocket counts, new fit and sizes, less integration between models, and build quality is on a decline.  And increase in product offering doesn't mean much when the most of them share the ~same patterns.

Its precisely the "tech" you speak of that I have issue with... why are zippers being laminated when stitching is stronger for example? When there's no testable metric that justifies that particular 'innovation' its just tech for tech sake.

There's wild potential still with deadbird methinks, but they lost their aggressive sociopathic innovators years ago. I don't blame Amer for the behavior... Arc pioneered water resistant zippers and let the IP slide, they brought hardfleece and softshell tech to market and let the IP slide, the list like this is long... they've literally handed away billions in industry control and they deserve the recourse the new owners are putting in place.

I'll note that I own practically the entire arcteryx alpine product line, and have dedicated myself to their product ecosystem and have put my life in their hands countless times. The decline in quality I saw was the spark the pulled me into making my own kit... shit today is more "technological" sure... but simply not as 'good' as it was in the ~2010 era.

I have 2009 gamma ar pants that have outlasted their 2017 model equivilants.... which shredded when a took a little whipper climbing this summer, whereas the old model has stood up to everything for nearly a decade and laughed it off.

no argument can change that they (and most others) are now a publicly traded business. Legally beholden to shareholders to yield growth. Profit is the endgame there now.

I haven't really felt the same sort of palpable decline with regard to the bread and butter pieces (theta ar, alpha sv, gamma hoodies/pant, harnesses, atom lt). I think they sometimes have these really innovative well made ideas that make it to market then they nix the line too early without refinement: alpha sv articulated gloves, miura climbing packs.

With regard to your comment of Gamma AR pants, I think they had a higher GSM fabric before the newer burlyweave. It's weird because the current Align MX from Veilance seems to be more like early aughts Arc than current mainline Arc. Additionally, I do lament the fact they've went more casual with regard to most of their line and, like you said, let their IP slide in recent years. I feel they're redoubled technical efforts with the Anta purchase and R&D cash infusion, newer UL packs, expanding alpine stuff, the MX line with mixed fabric panels in targeted locations.

I think I will still make recurring adjustable climbing harness, gamma pant, atom synthetic insulator, and theta/alpha hardshell shell purchases.

[tomatocookie]

That it's so restrictive in color. There is only two main colors used and that is green and black. It was nice when Acronym released the J28K's in the varying colors rather than just having to choose between RAF green and black.

[Xu Jianfeng]

“I hate this word at any level”