Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[Broark]

I like the sweet spot of somewhere in between. Part of the reason why I sold the Warehouse DSB that I had was because I felt like they were fading too quickly.
When denim is too stubborn stitching typically fails before they get interesting and repairs can get pricey these days.
FW hits a good middle ground for me and it doesn't hurt that their stitching seems to hold up better than most. They can take some time to get going though.
Warehouse is typically not too fast, with the exception of the original run of DSB denim.

[Cold Summer]

Hmm, I tend to like faster-fading denim. But my experience with various fabrics seems to be different from a lot of folks.

For example, Flat Head's 14.5 oz denim has always been considered a fast fader, but I feel like it takes a long time to fade, and it doesn't really get going until after a year of actual wear. On the other hand, Warehouse denim has a reputation for being a slow fader, but I've been really pleasantly surprised by how fast my 1001xx have evolved. (The 800xx's denim is one of the fastest-fading I've worn, with only the 19 oz. Samurai denim beating it.)

What's a really important factor in fading speed is how the jeans fit, I think one reason TFH denim acquired a reputation as a fast fader is because fifteen years ago everybody was wearing it in very slim-fitting pairs like the 3001, which forms tighter, harder creases from a slim fit that places a lot more pressure on stress points. I think just about any decent denim will fade quickly with that type of fit. Conversely, a lot of the more "vintage" style denim tends to be in more classic straight fits where there's not as much pressure and thus contrast is slower to emerge.

My Full Count 1108 is another good example of this, very soft, traditional style denim, and which I washed regularly; but still faded with nice contrast, and pretty quickly, because it's such a slim fit on me.

[Maynard Friedman]

This is a good conversation. I quite like faster fading denim at the moment. As @beautiful_FrEaK pointed out, with slow faders you can end up with dark jeans with white knees, worn out crotches and busted stitching and never get the opportunity to see wear a lighter pair that are fully intact. Mileage may vary for individuals but 2 pairs I’ve worn recently that haven’t been stubborn (although I’m not necessarily calling them fast faders) are SC Okis and LVC 55s (2007 production) and I think I might start washing them more often than once every 1-2 months, which is probably what I currently do (although I don’t monitor the frequency so am just guessing) to lighten them up even more.

[MJF9]

@Maynard Friedman Looking forward to the fit pics matey to bring this good conversation to life!!!  Oh come on, it's been ages since that's been said, I think 

Edited August 8, 2023 by MJF9

[julian-wolf]

3 hours ago, Broark said:

Part of the reason why I sold the Warehouse DSB that I had was because I felt like they were fading too quickly.

I had the same concern when I started wearing the early DSB, but I’m really glad I stuck it out. They ended up with a lot more depth & a lot more subtlety than I usually expect from quick fading

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

3 hours ago, Cold Summer said:

Warehouse denim has a reputation for being a slow fader

Really? I always thought the opposite. Denime (warehouse) seem to suggest the opposite as well. My 1003s with the memphis denim are probably the fastest fading pair I've had - on hiatus bc they need so many little repairs to get going again. At this point I just associate anything Warehouse with fast wearing all around. I think they look great quickly but it comes with its pitfalls.

I'm not a big fan of high contrast and have never thought too hard about this all but I still prefer slow fading since I'd rather just wear darker jeans more often than the opposite. When jeans are a bit lighter I prefer gentler fades though. 

[Cold Summer]

Hopefully this doesn't sound too much like I'm stating the obvious, but whenever I want a pair to stay dark and not fade too quickly, I just wear it a little less frequently. This could be a problem if you like said jeans so much that you want to wear them all day every day, but if you just wear a pair 2-4 times a week they'll stay dark a pretty long time.

These days I pretty much just wear one pair at a time, and think about switching to a different pair after I wash, since that's a clean (in multiple senses) point to change it up. I have enough decisions to make in life, so it's nice to pretty much know what pants I'm going to wear, at least. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Cold Summer

[chicote]

This whole conversation is why I have never really understood the denim contests where you’re allowed to wear whatever denim you choose. In a perfect world, factors like the speed of a given fabric’s wear would be taken into consideration, but in reality I feel like winners in these contests had often made the “strategic” choice of a very fast-wearing fabric that gives them an advantage over someone who might want to wear a pair of SDA or Evisu. It’s also something I appreciate about contests like the Devis, which I recall was a notably slow fader, and paid off in the appreciation people had for the commitment that went into getting those jeans well-broken in. 

[MJF9]

The spectrum of variables keeps me interested. I like having a number of different pairs, models / styles / eras, different denims in different states (faded, unfaded), different cuffs and different fits. Naturally for periods I'll be more inclined to some than others. However I do like to be able to pull out a faded pair one day (that I may be 'saving' in that state) and a hardly worn pair the next, for instance. It's currently keeping this denim-hobby-thing fresh for me.

Edited August 8, 2023 by MJF9

[Duke Mantee]

I really don’t care how quickly or how slow denim fades - too many factors involved to really make sense of it anyway ( @chicote touches on this) 

As with a lot of this stuff, there’s a certain po-faced approach to the scientific appraisal of train tracks, roping, whiskers and whatnot that makes for good forum debate, but I wonder if it kills the joy of wearing nice clothes just for the fun of, well … erm, wearing nice clothes? 

I posted a pair of FW jeans a few months back that were very heavily faded, in certain areas, within a few weeks - they were used for work, they got dirty and sweaty and one knee (the one I knelt one while working) is almost worn through. Not the ‘classic’ fades (there is no such thing anyway) and I still wear them with as little thought as any other pair of jeans … and I think that’s my point - I wear what I want on any given day and I’m not bothered about investing too much thought into that process.

[reallypeacedoff]

My own personal anecdote is that the first three months of ownership are always the best, said jeans being new and all. The way it finally settles after that initial crispness. Then, three to nine months is usually the least interesting, occasionally uplifted by some electric blue peaking through in direct sunlight, but generally a stale wear period. They don't look new, they don't look worn. A middle ground.  After that—nine to twelve months—there's a renewed love since the thighs suddenly start showing a distinct color difference from the lower legs, or the wallet fade is beginning to make way to a hole forming. This usually re-energizes me to wear the pair again more often and then it seems to accelerate to a point where they need repairs, but look their best in between fixes. Until finally, the cost ratio of how many repairs have been made and may need to be done in the future encourages me to find a new pair. This, for me, usually happens between 2.5–3.5 years (maybe even 2-3). I try to keep about 4-5 pairs in constant rotation and not get on the hype train of buying every brand/model and having it sitting in my closet where my tastes (or weight) could change drastically in a few years. A funny thing with denim though, it's the one area in life I don't have a specific brand allegiance. I love trying different brands and often seek new brands. I kinda dig that.

[Cold Summer]

20 hours ago, chicote said:

This whole conversation is why I have never really understood the denim contests where you’re allowed to wear whatever denim you choose. In a perfect world, factors like the speed of a given fabric’s wear would be taken into consideration, but in reality I feel like winners in these contests had often made the “strategic” choice of a very fast-wearing fabric that gives them an advantage over someone who might want to wear a pair of SDA or Evisu. It’s also something I appreciate about contests like the Devis, which I recall was a notably slow fader, and paid off in the appreciation people had for the commitment that went into getting those jeans well-broken in. 

Yep. Contests where everyone has to wear the same pair - or at least, the same denim - make a lot more sense to me.

@reallypeacedoffI always really admired that you typically wear one pair an extreme amount of time and get it repaired over and over. I find this approach a lot more interesting than a lot of folks who switch to a new pair once their current one just starts getting interesting.

[reallypeacedoff]

Thanks @Cold Summer, it probably has to do with me always telling myself I need to put two years of wear on each pair to justify the $$$$.

Regarding contests, I get that @chicote, it is way more interesting to have the same denim, see how they fade with different fits (sizing up, down, or TTS), and how people utilize them to get their fades. I mean, if you distill it down, isn't buying raw denim really about the fading? I believe most people, especially those that have been in the game for at least a few pairs, know that buying the slimmer cuts will get you the best fades. The tightness will permanently crease more, and the "constant pressure" will aid in indigo loss. Compared to a loose cut, "vintage" fades just take longer. You buy a jean for the denim and the details. You stick with them to have a "cool" faded pair down the road. In today's age, people lose interest in a competition that's more than a year long so they choose the faster-fading types of denim, the slimmer cuts, and comps that run a year max. But how can you compete with SE Asia when they wear their 25oz tight af jeans year-round in 115s and 100% humidity?

Full disclosure, I have entered the Indigo Invitational for 2024. Looking forward to it, so trying to wear all my other denim as much as possible for the next five months.

[mlwdp]

It’s really sad what’s happening out in Maui.  It’s unimaginable what they’re going through right now.

Also, been seeing some Typhoon season/store closings in Japan on Instagram lately.  Hope they’re safe out there.

[Maynard Friedman]

Sharons 3 - 1 Sheilas 

[oomslokop]

well deserved, shazzas

[Double 0 Soul]

Pfft! .. that wasn't what i'd call football

Where was the diving on the ground for no apparent reason?

Where's the writhing around in make believe agony?

No wonder there is such a pay gap if they don't even understand the basic concept of the game.

 

[mlwdp]

Has anybody here shipped jewelry from Japan to USA? How was it? I’m a little nervous about doing it.  Thought about a P.O. Box but not interested in paying for 3 months worth.

Edited August 16, 2023 by mlwdp

[StuartM]

17 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Pfft! .. that wasn't what i'd call football

Where was the diving on the ground for no apparent reason?

Where's the writhing around in make believe agony?

No wonder there is such a pay gap if they don't even understand the basic concept of the game.

 

I watched in awe at the level of game-management/timewasting on display. Credit to the England team, I've never seen better. Deliberately dribbling a second ball onto the pitch to prevent the goalie from taking a kick near the end was the finest piece of shithousery I've seen on a football pitch in my 46 years. 

[Maynard Friedman]

She was sportingly retrieving the ball that went out of play, how would she know another one was being sent on behind her? Game management is to be commended but I’m not sure there was much time wasting - and with the new guidelines on added time, it serves little purpose anyway.

EDIT: I also thought the standard of play from both teams (and indeed, most if not all, in this competition) has been very high. Women’s football has progressed in leaps and bounds and I’d rather focus on that aspect than any perceived negatives.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Maynard Friedman

[StuartM]

1 hour ago, Maynard Friedman said:

She was sportingly retrieving the ball that went out of play, how would she know another one was being sent on behind her? Game management is to be commended but I’m not sure there was much time wasting - and with the new guidelines on added time, it serves little purpose anyway.

I think this comment should come with a winking face emoji. She watched the goalkeeper be given a ball and then dribbled another on the pitch and left it, positively sucking up the inevitable yellow card. Its *chef's kiss*. Wasted a bit of time and slowed down play. It's bloody brilliant. Bringing that intensity of focus is something the best teams have been doing for years. 

[Duke Mantee]

3 hours ago, StuartM said:

I watched in awe at the level of game-management/timewasting on display. Credit to the England team, I've never seen better. Deliberately dribbling a second ball onto the pitch to prevent the goalie from taking a kick near the end was the finest piece of shithousery I've seen on a football pitch in my 46 years. 

Doesn’t even get close to the shithousery of tournament rigging that occurred the last time that country managed a WC final

[Maynard Friedman]

Most of us weren’t around back then 

[Double 0 Soul]

...but can they twerk?

[MJF9]

I watched the 2 minutes highlights of England beating Australia.  If that's the highlights, I do wonder what the rest was like.  Goalkeeping and defending were comically bad.  That said Come on You Engerland.  If we win it, an extra annual holiday gets my vote.
(And yes, before you say it, I should know a hard watch being an Everton fan )

[MJF9]

I see denim is still all the rage in London town

For the days when you're not sure what pair to wear, you can go with 2 or more of your favourites simultaneously

Edited August 19, 2023 by MJF9

[Dr_Heech]

@MJF9 That's not London town , more like Maynard's denim collection and you got to see a fit pic too. Lucky man.

 

[MJF9]

Haha yeah that's him in the Birks showing off one of his Levis mainline creations.  Of course, he'll post his vintages Levis frankenjean collection in the correct thread! 

[Dr_Heech]

1 minute ago, MJF9 said:

Haha yeah that's him in the Birks showing off one of his Levis mainline creations.  Of course, he'll post his vintages Levis frankenjean collection in the correct thread! 

Yes sometimes I don't know if it's my OCD or old 'moderator attitude' left over from Denimbro days. I mean l have 7 pairs of 'Levis vintage clothing' jeans, some that are actual vintage clothing (over 20 years old) and some aren't (yet) - some are new and some are worn.  But they are all lvc.

They could all go in the Levis vintage clothing thread but then also they could go in the vintage denim thread, the nice things thread, the what did your jeans do today thread (not alot, they just got pulled out of a drawer/suitcase, photographed for discussion purposes etc). Then there's the WW2 details thread and 66 type jeans thread and if the stars align, a chance of getting into the iconic photos thread. 

Leaves my head in a spin 

 

[mlwdp]