Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[ATWM]

In reference to the covid era in particular - that’s when I came to Sufu (I was a lurker for a time before that). It was 2020 maybe? Late joiner in that sense. But anyways, I couldn’t not wear jeans during Covid just because you couldn’t go anywhere. As a freelancer, when not out in the field and working from a home studio quite often - I’ve always equated putting on real pants with going to work, silly as that is. I still put them on when I get out of bed to write at 5:30 am. This has been the case for me forever. I could never get real work done in “soft” clothes like sweatpants - save that for physical training. In 2020, it seemed like this was maybe the last place left in the world where people dared to put on real pants, so I finally had to join. 

[Mtvare]

It's funny to hear talk of putting on "real pants" to work (and not manual labour), where the real pants are jeans. Until the last thirty or forty years people would have been saying the same thing about putting on a suit. For that matter, there are still plenty of blogs around now where men will tell you that jeans are inappropriate for anything other than leisure, or even that men over thirty (or forty, or whatever arbitrary number they pick) should only wear chinos and "slacks" (does that term sound just as comical to other Brits?). I find them really entertaining actually. 

I find it interesting the way that trends have shifted over the last twenty years so that jeans have shifted a place up the formality scale, and leisure wear (in the UK, read "tracksuits") has come in to fill the place they vacated. The people who sneered at young people or perceived commoners for wearing jeans forty years ago are now sneering at young people or perceived commoners for wearing trackies.

(None of this is a comment on anyone here,  just some thoughts inspired by the discussion.)

[Double 0 Soul]

What would one consider a trackie in 2025?.. i haven't seen a Daley Thompson or Goldie Lookin Chain-esque trackie for years.. it's mainly sweatpants / drawstring pants.. yuppie types have been dressing them up for the office for some time.. worn with lofas, sports jacket.. knitwear and such, they can cost a small fortune, (£1000+) but if you saw a crackhead wearing them you would assume £20 from Sports Direct..

2 hours ago, MJF9 said:

I wear what I wear because I like it. That's always been the case… from being a young lad with a very keen interest in clothes and how they fit and feel.... and there's no sign of that stopping.  I couldn't give a shit who likes it or doesn't, nor where I get fit ideas from –

Tell us more of these fit ideas.. isn't it just denimz.. sweats, tees, jackets and pumps like the rest of us?

2 hours ago, MJF9 said:

Mavis on checkout 9 hasn’t got a scoobies.

You don't know that for sure.. she could be normcoreing like a mofo.. "i had one of them 2009 era denimheads at my checkout today".. she'll be saying on the middle-isle WhatsApp group..

When i go to the Tesco near work, i'm so threadbare that security clock me instantly and assume i'm either homeless or a shoplifter.. little do they know, i'm cultivating a sufu accredited WH jacket

2 hours ago, MJF9 said:

Ahhhh so this is why it’s called the General Nonsense thread!

Long live Sufu! 

Viva La Nonsense!

[Mtvare]

"Sweatpants" is a relatively recent Americanism for what I've always called tracksuit bottoms, whether of polyester or similar (Daley Thompson-style) or cotton jersey (sweatpants). Anyway,  sweatpants is what I'm talking about. 

[tg76]

back when i went to work..

students used to ask me why I was allowed to wear track pants, wasn't I meant to dress like a teacher

I was wearing my baggy Byborre Miffy pants, best answer I could come up with was "actually they are pyjamas" 

 

[Double 0 Soul]

8 hours ago, Mtvare said:

"Sweatpants" is a relatively recent Americanism for what I've always called tracksuit bottoms, whether of polyester or similar (Daley Thompson-style) or cotton jersey (sweatpants). Anyway,  sweatpants is what I'm talking about. 

Got ya' i used to call the cotton jersey type 'jog bottoms' or 'joggers'.. the Daley types trackies and lets not forget the shell suit for an air of sophistication

[Double 0 Soul]

These are cool.. they're called 'vials' cost close to a grand and they do absolutely fk all

Flex your sneaker game here..

RTFKT

RTFKT

Edited January 30 by Double 0 Soul

[Cold Summer]

17 hours ago, Mtvare said:

It's funny to hear talk of putting on "real pants" to work (and not manual labour), where the real pants are jeans. Until the last thirty or forty years people would have been saying the same thing about putting on a suit. For that matter, there are still plenty of blogs around now where men will tell you that jeans are inappropriate for anything other than leisure, or even that men over thirty (or forty, or whatever arbitrary number they pick) should only wear chinos and "slacks" (does that term sound just as comical to other Brits?). I find them really entertaining actually. 

I find it interesting the way that trends have shifted over the last twenty years so that jeans have shifted a place up the formality scale, and leisure wear (in the UK, read "tracksuits") has come in to fill the place they vacated. The people who sneered at young people or perceived commoners for wearing jeans forty years ago are now sneering at young people or perceived commoners for wearing trackies.

(None of this is a comment on anyone here,  just some thoughts inspired by the discussion.)

Great points, the subject of the formality of jeans, or lack thereof, is a fascinating topic.

I think a crucial aspect of this is the color, detailing, and cut of a given pair. A dark, classic 501-type straight fit is extremely versatile and while I wouldn't say it really looks formal in any context, you can easily dress it up with a nice pair of shoes, a sport shirt, and jacket of some sort, so you look well put together on date night, at church, teaching the class, or whatever. A well-kept, naturally faded pair is almost as versatile.

Where things get a bit iffy is with obviously with torn-up or distressed jeans, but also, I'd argue, with a lot of mid-blue prewashed jeans. The average prewashed pair tends to have this very flat and processed sort of appearance and shapeless, floppy drape that has more of a pajama or leisure wear kind of quality to it. Even if you just wear a pair of TCB 50s or Sugar Cane 1947 and wash them once a week it's still going to look and fit way better than floppy mall jeans after a year. Personally, I can't stand leisure wear not because I'm opposed to being comfortable, but because I hate polyester and floppy shapeless clothing.

There's an interesting parallel between the rise of jeans and "work wear" as everyday casual clothing coinciding with a romanticizing of the rugged working man as an ideal in an increasingly urbanized and white-collar context post-World War II, and the rise of leisure wear as everyday casual clothing coinciding with "being in the gym/exercising/active" as an aspirational lifestyle when the norm is for middle and upper class people to be fat and sitting on their butts in front of a computer screen all day. Going around all day in Lululemon or whatever sends the message that you've Made It enough to enjoy the privilege of free time enough for exercising and sculpting your ideal physique. Most of this is happening on the subconscious level, but I think there's definitely something there. Other, related historical instance: when agrarian work was the norm, fair skin was the beauty ideal because it signaled you were above laboring in the sun all day, and when industrialism and the rise of white-collar work made indoor labor the norm, tanning because a status symbol because you had wealth and leisure time to relax on the beach and all that.

[ATWM]

Interesting the way this conversation has gone. In general, I don’t buy the concept of aging out of jeans. Aging out of particular ways to wear them or styles of fit, yes, yes.  

Yes, originally they were workwear, but we’re talking decades and decades since they leapt out of the factories and the mines and into the general population. I guess there are levels to this - and I suppose this is more specific to when and where I’ve grown up and lived - they’ve been the ultimate neutral and sort of signal flattener. They don’t really convey class or position on society one way or the other - but they do convey a basic sense of giving at least the tiniest of a shit in most cases - where sweats/tracks/pajamas are on much less stable territory here. They go at least as far in one direction as chinos or trousers do another direction. 

This might be a less popular opinion and really is just about my own sensibility but I find the attempts to formalize or “dress up” jeans to be misguided. A blazer with jeans - even dark jeans with tonal stitching - and dress shoes, for me, conveys a sense of a sort of conformist or an institutionalist who wants to be seen as a touch less serious in order to ingratiate themselves. If it’s a 5 pocket design, it should not be paired with a sport coat. I am painting with a broad brush here - but in the most basic sense, the gut reaction is to run the other direction - or to suggest putting on pants that don’t confuse the tone of the sport coat and probably the person wearing it. I think the only thing worse is sneakers with a sport coat and jeans, or those awful shoes that have dress style tops and fat rubber soles.

As always, exceptions exist, and in the heritage world there are things like sack coats and chore coats that confuse this sort of assertion even more. 

I apologize if I’ve offended anyone’s general sensibility - take a free shot at me. Or, even better, wear it well and be in the world proving me wrong. 

[Double 0 Soul]

5 minutes ago, ATWM said:

 This might be a less popular opinion and really is just about my own sensibility but I find the attempts to formalize or “dress up” jeans to be misguided. A blazer with jeans - even dark jeans with tonal stitching - and dress shoes, for me, conveys a sense of a sort of conformist or an institutionalist who wants to be seen as a touch less serious in order to ingratiate themselves. If it’s a 5 pocket design, it should not be paired with a sport coat. I am painting with a broad brush here - but in the most basic sense, the gut reaction is to run the other direction - or to suggest putting on pants that don’t confuse the tone of the sport coat and probably the person wearing it.

Wait till mini-alien is a little older.. you'll see a lot of this^ biz at parents evening

[MJF9]

20 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Tell us more of these fit ideas.. isn't it just denimz.. sweats, tees, jackets and pumps like the rest of us?

Nowt more than the usual stuff that's discussed - cuff or no cuff, double cuff, single cuff, Tender cuff, cinch or no cinch (sounds like a gameshow)... yadda yadda yadda for all other fit components. So yeah the basic tennets of top, bottom and footwear are common, but it's all different right. All part of the fun in deciding what to wear with what and how imo.

Long live WAYWT and all other sources of inspo!

[Mtvare]

You wouldn't get me in a sport coat for love or money and I teach my classes in jeans and a T-shirt. One of the best things about the job.

[ATWM]

2 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Wait till mini-alien is a little older.. you'll see a lot of this^ biz at parents evening

I live a university town, I see a lot of it already haha. 

[oomslokop]

fit check. guess the drip. context: this was for a high society jaksel (south jakarta) wedding at our moma (tiny) where the dress code was strictly all black except for the bride who wore white. i was the witness for the bride. later on i went to a cocktail bar still in the same outfit. 

[Maynard Friedman]

3 hours ago, ATWM said:

I live a university town, I see a lot of it already haha. 

I didn’t realise university students still had parent-teacher meetings!

[MJF9]

Did they have even have them in your day? 😉

'Maynard has been absent from morning lecturers since the start of term'

'Don't worry, he'll be joining them soon as his maintenance grant is running out'

[MJF9]

Power to the Greenock ladies!

[Dr_Heech]

Big Happy Birthday to @Maynard Friedman - without a doubt the best moderator in the known denim world !

[Double 0 Soul]

Happy Birthday Martin! .. this'll make you laugh!

I was just watching Stranger Things with Sarah and the boy came home from school with a parcel, saying excitedly ‘I’ve just found this on the doorstep and it’s addressed to me” he doesn't ordinarily get post.

I had a look, it was delivered by RM but the house number was one digit out, the postcode was one letter out and the street name had a spelling mistake.. luckily it got to the right address because when he opened it.. it was a 3D printed butt plug

If it would have gone to the wrong address, we'd have to move house!

Three of his mates had the idea.. one of them made the packaging in iMedia at school.. i say packaging, it was printed paper wrapped around a box.. one of them 3D printed the plug and one of them posted it.

..the branding is brilliant! certainly on par with any other self respecting purveyors of butt products.

Hat's off to them!. it's a genius 21st century schoolboy prank .

They all pm'd him out of the group chat to say 'please don't be offended, it was just a joke' which was quite sweet.. we all thought it was hillarious, it's not everyday you see your son opening a box with a butt plug in it.

They'd even enclosed a phony receipt, the company address was '1 Oxford Street London' which i immediately googled with zero results before the kid said "it's the lads.. i'm going to fkin kill them!

My days.. i love teenagers, they're flipping hilarious!

Edited February 7 by Double 0 Soul

[Maynard Friedman]

Cheers Charlie and Neal. That’s a great present too, can you send it down to me when you’ve finished with it? Might want to give it a rinse first though.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

28 minutes ago, Dr_Heech said:

Big Happy Birthday to @Maynard Friedman - without a doubt the best moderator in the known denim world !

Pff...

But yes, happy birthday!!! @Maynard Friedman

[Broark]

Happy birthday @Maynard Friedman, now let's see a birthday fit pic!

[Maynard Friedman]

A birthday suit pic?  😳

[Broark]

2 minutes ago, Maynard Friedman said:

A birthday suit pic?  😳

[MJF9]

@Maynard Friedman Happy Birthday old chap... bet you've got a fking huge birthday cake to fit all those candles on 😁

[Maynard Friedman]

^ Sure have. Fire brigade are on standby!

[smoothsailor]

Happy birthday Martin, hope you have a good one

[JohnM]

Happy birthday Martin.  I didn't know your name was Martin or that you were a moderator -- a sure sign of a good moderator 😉 

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Happy birthday @Dr_Heech!

[Geeman]

Happy Birthday to both guys!