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Acronym.

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7 minutes ago, Appleseed said:

What absolute bullshit. This is why architects (esp. the academic kind) get so little respect in the actual, built / owned world.

Thats kinda false imo.

Its a tool to get creative, when you are stuck and cant think of designing something, then sometimes you gotta create your own problems to solve.

Or when you have a certain idea that you want to realize, a number of problems will surely arise when you are trying to solve your own design idea.

If this mindset aint here, then we would have monotonous output everywhere, especially in the fashion industry IMO.

Why should there be designers in the first place?

We wouldn’t have come to modern design if designers didnt think that the absence ornaments and decorative attributes of architecture could be aesthetically pleasing. (Which there is some more thinking than just the aesthetics)

Not that the old designs are bad, but there certainly are advancements in design with “this kind” of thinking.

Regarding getting respect, sure some gets their respect in forms of prestigious awards etc. For what? For their groundbreaking ideas of what architecture and designs could be.

Even chefs who create groundbreaking dishes gets their james beard or michelin award and all that shit.

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A pocket inside of a pocket inside of a pocket

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, hooper said:

i just think this stuff looks cool

simple words but resonate, I am not sure what you guys thinking. but what are u expecting from a designer who stepped into fashion solely for the delusion that there are more girls in fashion than other creative industries? 

I treat the garments to satisfy myself or for the comfort OR you might say an extravagant display intended to attract a mate ("normal" ppl wouldn't know u paid $2k for a raincoat tho)

Edited by dreamboatjustsoul

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, piece keeper said:

That's why you get kids that say it's over-priced.  

Genuinely curious, what are the profit margins on ACR pieces (AKA how much does Errolson *or whoever also has a stake in the company* take home per J1A-GTKP sold)? I've heard speculators say that it's around 200 to 300% but that would mean it costs them around 400-500 to make a J1A. Is that even possible given the number of details on the jacket? How about operating costs (like the website, which has extremely compressed images that look terrible lol), customer service (maybe just Ian and some intern at the CZ factory), studio costs (Berlin ain't cheap), and lastly designing costs (Umit, Ian, and Errolson salaries)? 

I'm not a business-side expert, so it would interesting if anybody here could help try to break down the ACR business model, thanks.

Edited by Orientalq
spelling of name

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Don't forget about Michaela and Ken-tonio

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1 hour ago, Nebulae said:

All the most functional and most compelling acronym features lie in deep level revisions to conventional garment construction + patterncutting.

Deep pockets, KG fit block, mezzanine pockets, detached entry pockets, two-way pocket bags, parallel zippers @ CF closure, holster pockets, etc.

Flashy stuff like escape zip, magnetic tape, gravity pockets are largely whatever and more cumbersome than functional (btw, best application of escape zip is always on vehicular entry jackets lol)

Wearing my J36-S and feeling attacked

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1 hour ago, kenwiryadi said:

Thats kinda false imo.

Its a tool to get creative, when you are stuck and cant think of designing something, then sometimes you gotta create your own problems to solve.

Or when you have a certain idea that you want to realize, a number of problems will surely arise when you are trying to solve your own design idea.

If this mindset aint here, then we would have monotonous output everywhere, especially in the fashion industry IMO.

Why should there be designers in the first place?

We wouldn’t have come to modern design if designers didnt think that the absence ornaments and decorative attributes of architecture could be aesthetically pleasing. (Which there is some more thinking than just the aesthetics)

Not that the old designs are bad, but there certainly are advancements in design with “this kind” of thinking.

Regarding getting respect, sure some gets their respect in forms of prestigious awards etc. For what? For their groundbreaking ideas of what architecture and designs could be.

Even chefs who create groundbreaking dishes gets their james beard or michelin award and all that shit.

Am guessing there's a bit of a language barrier happening here. Creating problems that don't exist (so that you can then 'solve' them) is not pragmatic creativity. Designing in a vacuum is just masturbation (tho of course there's value to be mined from that process).

But as you point out in your third line, there are always problems to solve (even if they're not sexy or fun).

Point being: contemporary architectural education loves to foster ego over practical skill, but that shit catches up and'll humble you real fast in professional practice. Academia lives on an island - we all know the saying about those who can 'do,' and those who 'can't do,' yes?

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1 hour ago, piece keeper said:

"The pattern-making and articulation is what really sets ACR apart, but these are technical details that are largely "invisible" to the naked eye, and even more so to the consumer that has no idea about garment construction to begin with."

"I guarantee most people don't even understand half the words he used (ThatSlapz), let alone why changes to them make a garment better, worse, or different. The devil is in the details for any hobby--garments are no different."

I'll quote these two parts.

The pattern-making and articulation does NOT set acronym apart, there are actually many brands that execute exactly what ACR achieves. And almost all designs used by ACR are not original, they are inspired by past military/workwear garments which continue to inspire many other brands as well. So to say it "sets ACR apart" is naive. And also to say it's naked to the eye is obviously apparent, isn't that why we're all on this page in the first place? is because we share the same eye for technical attention that E does.

Something I didn't put in my first post, but you basically just highlighted it perfectly for me to touch on, is that the J1E has no new innovation(Hat excluded but...LOL). It's literally an update where E is attempting to just expand further on where the J1A design fails. And that being said, it's still the same pockets/zippers/systems maybe arranged in a more accessible and convenient way, but that somehow took almost 20 years to finally figure out? and oh also costs over $2,000...

My statement is this, I'll pay $600 for any recycled ACR piece any fucking day, new fabrics, new colors, new bags, the detail is unparalleled. E could literally start a membership service for $2,000 a year where i'm guaranteed a couple pieces and I would sign up immediately.  But with $1,000-$2,000 pricing, I want some new innovation, I really don't think that's too much to ask. I guess i'm just asking for more than the normal consumer.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Nebulae said:

All the most functional and most compelling acronym features lie in deep level revisions to conventional garment construction + patterncutting.

Deep pockets, KG fit block, mezzanine pockets, detached entry pockets, two-way pocket bags, parallel zippers @ CF closure, holster pockets, etc.

Flashy stuff like escape zip, magnetic tape, gravity pockets are largely whatever and more cumbersome than functional (btw, best application of escape zip is always on vehicular entry jackets lol)

Second this.

The brand or the Acrnm client actually being providing well balanced mixture of military wear/sportswear/human dynamics/materials/modern menswear/workwear into a overall nice ready to wear seriously and yeah the down side are some puffy brand images (dang it’s sure expensive)and the owners’ social networking showing off of all those lovely gals, that also part of it.

For me the brand it’s still a style thing and it’s no DARPA at all right?

Edited by Xu Jianfeng

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12 minutes ago, mariahscarry said:

I'll quote these two parts.

The pattern-making and articulation does NOT set acronym apart, there are actually many brands that execute exactly what ACR achieves. And almost all designs used by ACR are not original, they are inspired by past military/workwear garments which continue to inspire many other brands as well. So to say it "sets ACR apart" is naive. And also to say it's naked to the eye is obviously apparent, isn't that why we're all on this page in the first place? is because we share the same eye for technical attention that E does.

Something I didn't put in my first post, but you basically just highlighted it perfectly for me to touch on, is that the J1E has no new innovation(Hat excluded but...LOL). It's literally an update where E is attempting to just expand further on where the J1A design fails. And that being said, it's still the same pockets/zippers/systems maybe arranged in a more accessible and convenient way, but that somehow took almost 20 years to finally figure out? and oh also costs over $2,000...

Which brands do you feel also execute on what ACR achieves with pattern-making and articulation? Genuinely curious because these sound like brands I would be interested in.

Regarding the J1E, what you mention about updating every feature of the jacket was the point of the jacket.  If they were going to do something entirely different and "innovate," they wouldn't have used their very first jacket as a starting point.  The J1 was their idea of what Acronym should be when they started, and their commitment to it demonstrates they still believe it is.  

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@mariahscarry if you don't think the J1e adds any type of innovation, then I'm sorry to say you don't have the "eye for technical attention" you think you do. 

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I'm just now seeing product release photos of the J1-E featuring Errolson floating about the web. Are these leaks? Don't recall them being published via official channels. 

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24 minutes ago, AvantSol said:

@mariahscarry if you don't think the J1e adds any type of innovation, then I'm sorry to say you don't have the "eye for technical attention" you think you do. 

I'm an interior designer at Lamborghini..

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Oof

Roasted right before our eyes

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2 hours ago, mariahscarry said:

I'll quote these two parts.

The pattern-making and articulation does NOT set acronym apart, there are actually many brands that execute exactly what ACR achieves. And almost all designs used by ACR are not original, they are inspired by past military/workwear garments which continue to inspire many other brands as well. So to say it "sets ACR apart" is naive. And also to say it's naked to the eye is obviously apparent, isn't that why we're all on this page in the first place? is because we share the same eye for technical attention that E does.

It's silly to say that because a design isn't original means it's not set apart. You gonna tell me the car seats you maybe work on don't set it apart from a Honda Civic's just because they're both car seats?  An Acronym BDU is going to be way different than a military standard issue BDU. C'mon now.

And yeah when I refer to "others" I generally mean people not on sufu...obviously people here are more in-tune with garments but I'm more referring to the average HB reader.

2 hours ago, mariahscarry said:

Something I didn't put in my first post, but you basically just highlighted it perfectly for me to touch on, is that the J1E has no new innovation(Hat excluded but...LOL). It's literally an update where E is attempting to just expand further on where the J1A design fails. And that being said, it's still the same pockets/zippers/systems maybe arranged in a more accessible and convenient way, but that somehow took almost 20 years to finally figure out? and oh also costs over $2,000...

Often innovation is iterative, and rarely a huge jump. I think most designers worth their salt understand this. Plus, the fact that it took 20 years discounts every other J1 in between...and sometimes you have to wait for other industries to innovate as well, e.g. the QuickFree zipper seems like it came out ~2018? And saying "took almost 20 years to finally figure out" is facile--you can say "finally" for anything with the benefit of hindsight.

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Can you change HTS code for orders shipped via DHL after it's been cleared from customs? Just got slapped with a 27.9% DHL invoice for P10 shipped from Coevo. zzzzz If not, I'll just bite the bullet

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2 hours ago, Flipflop214 said:

lol, no one gets a Lambo for its interior cmon breh

To be fair Lambo interior design is pretty spot on... You have to be pretty good at design (and Italian..?) to work for Lamborghini so fundamentally there's little to doubt him here for. 

That said Errolson is definitely not going all out and "innovating" everything for the sake of heritage. It's been a big foundation for Acronym design in general. The last thing we need is another test mechanic like SOLARPOWERTECHSUSTAINABLESIGNALING® only for it to go out of fashion. The goal is to make something that lasts (at least that's what he's preaching with all that "not buying ACR is more ACR than ACR nonsense").

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, mariahscarry said:

I'm an interior designer at Lamborghini..

Oh yeah? Where is Centro Stile based? 

Edited by drgitlin

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1 hour ago, drgitlin said:

Oh yeah? Where is Centro Stile based? 

you tell me about an ambush? i ambush you with a cup of coffee! 

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For an even more direct comparison, a Tilak (acrnm’s old manufacturer) gtx jacket is $400.

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12 hours ago, piece keeper said:

The pattern-making and articulation is what really sets ACR apart, but these are technical details that are largely "invisible" to the naked eye, and even more so to the consumer that has no idea about garment construction to begin with. That's why you get kids that say it's over-priced.  

Unless you are a patternmaker, or someone with connections/ heavy experience in apparel manufacturing  -- justifying the price by garment construction is pure speculation. Believing the garment is actually extremely costly to be produced to rationalize the fact that it is expensive for you to buy.  

As @beepy mentioned, Tilak coats that were previously made in the same exact factory as ACR's with identical construction in many cases, and Poutnik's GTX line was/is still sub  $500.  Yes other factors affect price, but not so much that ACR's jackets should be anywhere close to 3-4X Tilak's 

Funfact -- most of acr's cropped pants over the years (p17, p23 , p25, p27) can be made in a small fraction of the time it takes to produce most of their jackets, but are still around the 1100-1200 mark. Simple patterns do not equal a proportionately lower priced product.  We are paying the large upcharge on the fact that it is Acronym, not the complex garment construction 

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Yes we are all paying a huge markup because it is ACRMN plain and simple. Just like Louis Vuitton for instance anything they do not sell in their stores they literally burn rather than markdown or put on sale so people will pay that insanely high markup. 
But there is that "exclusivity" no one touched on. I myself do like the fact that when I walk out of the house with a certain item on knowing I will more than likely be the only one I encounter wearing that item. I like that. 

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Construction/raw material price/living wages all have exactly zero to do with why an ACR piece is three to four times more expensive than comparable items.

The market supports these prices and after years of being niche, ACR is hype and E is (rightfully) making bank.

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28 minutes ago, owetoe540 said:

Just like Louis Vuitton

Sadly Acronym is not Louis Vuitton and current stock on their website says everything

21 minutes ago, Inkinsurgent said:

Construction/raw material price/living wages all have exactly zero to do with why an ACR

Apparently it's because Errolson is

But at the same time because he is Chinese

1387861097_Screenshot2020-05-12at14_54_53.png.4585b4179e82df2eb916ffd0b95e2299.png

Pricing mystery solved: He is Chinese!

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Man the conversation here reminds me when Visvim prices went bananas. Buy what you like folks as long as your wallet can support it. Cheers

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Yeah his own rationalisation isn't helping. I don't see what's so bad about going "i invested my life in this company, fashion is a fickle thing, make hay while the sun shines."

However: the price point they're at allows them certain affordances in construction that you otherwise wouldn't bother with. I think the acr aesthetic is very much about going beyond what other brands would see as a point of diminishing returns. There are small construction details even in a pair of P10 pants that really don't offer much from a practical perspective but very much emphasise what an ACR item projects. This is also a point where i feel Veilance and ACR diverged over the years: AV showcases their technical prowess through minimalism in features and construction, whereas ACR showcases theirs through maximalism. Maybe this is also what part of the "practical VS expensive" argument hinges on: regardless of whether you feel ACR features add actual purpose over more stripped down solutions, you can certainly see where the ideas, effort and innovation are applied. It really is more the fetishisation of purpose than actual purpose, and i mean that as a good thing.

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Yet there are lots and lots of posts on the internet asking for your "affordable" acrnm alternatives but simply none of them gets it quite on a level like the original. In the end you get something with a very unique design DNA and that is what enables such high price points for them and probably why most people buy it in the first place, with the "functionality" as added benefit.

Also the J1A is not a good example if you want to talk about "innovation" (meaning, completely new products) because it is reworked in iterations for 20 years now. Why not look at the current lineup instead? J82 and J84, very unique and new models, maybe with less "function" in terms of pockets etc. but still a very fresh design you won't find anywhere else. Speaking of functionality, the pockets on the (also new) P35-DS are really something else - you have like 11 of them and most are also really spacious, all of this without looking like a cargo pant at all.

And yes, J1L/J47 and P10 are all nothing new but then again, you can't re-invent the wheel on all models every season. Some people are also glad about re-iterations because they missed previous seasons and don't want to pay premium re-sell on used items.

 

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