Roy. (expurgated edition)

[Duke Mantee]

1 hour ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Hey.. at least you've finally acknowledged my northerness..

 

It’d be narrow minded if me not to give you some latitude

[julian-wolf]

I've been pretty dissuaded by the hype on recent releases—and, even more so, by the burgeoning post-retail market—but Roy's jeans remain some of my favorites that I've ever worn. His patterning is about as good as it gets, at least for me. The jeans stay up with or without a belt even through pretty big size fluctuations (I'm generally around 2" bigger in the winter than in the summer, and his are some of the only jeans for which this doesn't really seem to matter). The fabrics he uses also tend to fade beautifully and last forever.

I'm not expecting to get a chance to wear any of these new ones (really, I'm still not even expecting any to go up for sale), but if the opportunity did pop up I'd be more than glad to make the most of it.

[julian-wolf]

All the activity in this thread reminds me that I still need to post up some initial impressions of my new Foreman Pants…

[Jared_Lee]

All this thread activity reminded me to wear mine today, @julian-wolf. Would love to read your thoughts on them.

[Jared_Lee]

As far as the hype goes, I don't care. At all. If someone is making something the way I want it made and I can't easily find it done that way elsewhere, I will make effort to buy it - either because there's no hype and it's obscure and difficult to track down or because it's super hyped and I need to be on the computer at 9:15 am San Fernando porno time to cop. At its worst, it's just not that complicated. 

I love my Roys. I'm not thrilled with the fit on my Ooes, but the fabric is lovely. I also love my big, bad, bully, western-market-price-gouging Full Counts. They each offer something desirable that the other does not and cannot easily be found in other jeans elsewhere.

As for pattern, if you haven't handled them and tried them on, you cannot speak to pattern. Measurement charts can give you a good idea of general dimension, but cannot tell the story of how the subtlety of pattern will affect the fit. The BS Straight is a perfect example. It has identical measurements to my Roy jeans, but fits completely differently due to the front rise being drawn out flat and straight and the seat seam pulling a strong curve along my butt. The Roy has the same measurement FR and BR, but the front curves earlier and rear sags lower.

[Fooleo]

I was a bit late to the Roy party having only ever owned his 2nd to last(?) SE R01 release, his usual signature back pocket shape isn't my favorite. I am super happy with the pair I got which has "test-lot" (standard 501 shape) details though, and can attest that the craftsmanship lives up to the hype. If Japanese repro brands aim for perfection in re-creating the stitching style of vintage Levi's (sloppy or otherwise), Roy is almost the opposite in his pursuit of perfection through overall evenness/cleanliness & consistency. The clamshell overlocking stitch for the fly gives it almost a luxurious feeling for a pair of jeans that is hard to describe. Would have liked to try out the black seed denim at some point since I dig the concept, but am totally content with my XX20s. Super bummed to hear about @shredwin_206 experience though, I was excited at the prospect of him making more pairs in the future but that really rubs me the wrong way  

Edited April 26, 2023 by Fooleo

[reallypeacedoff]

Weird because I bought his first SE-DUCKs when they came out, I blew the crotch out the third time wearing them. He DM me, got them sent to his shop, sewed and riveted them, and returned them with a cool chain stitched "Sorry" denim 'handkerchief' free of charge. Until recently I wasn't a huge fan of large rises, but with some extra weight, I appreciated his fits (since that model) way more now. Unfortunately, I grew out of those since they were the slimmest of any fits he had ever done. I wish I could get my hands on a larger pair, that tan DUCK was some of the nicest I have seen. I have the RT Slim Tapered XX Experimental Denim that I bought in 2020, I love the fit, and they are coming along nicely. If a pair does drop on eBay or Grailed though, it always seems like someone is gouging. 

[JohnM]

I have almost every model Roy made starting with the Kinda Specials.  Nothing is sewn quite like them (i.e., perfectly), but the cuts do vary significantly from model to model.  For the most part, the various (mostly Cone) denims are tightly woven and feel like they'll last for years.

Roy is a bright, interesting, independent guy who puts everything into his work and is unafraid to tell you what he thinks.  This can be jarring, but once I survived the initial barrage, I thought, 'damn, he's probably right, maybe I can learn something here.'  How many people do we know (for better or worse) whose comments are kinda special, as in unfiltered?

[Flash]

7 hours ago, Jared_Lee said:

As far as the hype goes, I don't care. At all. If someone is making something the way I want it made and I can't easily find it done that way elsewhere, I will make effort to buy it - either because there's no hype and it's obscure and difficult to track down or because it's super hyped and I need to be on the computer at 9:15 am San Fernando porno time to cop. At its worst, it's just not that complicated. 

I love my Roys. I'm not thrilled with the fit on my Ooes, but the fabric is lovely. I also love my big, bad, bully, western-market-price-gouging Full Counts. They each offer something desirable that the other does not and cannot easily be found in other jeans elsewhere.

As for pattern, if you haven't handled them and tried them on, you cannot speak to pattern. Measurement charts can give you a good idea of general dimension, but cannot tell the story of how the subtlety of pattern will affect the fit. The BS Straight is a perfect example. It has identical measurements to my Roy jeans, but fits completely differently due to the front rise being drawn out flat and straight and the seat seam pulling a strong curve along my butt. The Roy has the same measurement FR and BR, but the front curves earlier and rear sags lower.

I'm not talking about fit when I mentioned the pattern , what I mean is the the actual design of the jeans ... the big bro ( i think that's right ) comes to mind , the cinch just looks out of place. There are other similar design ideas related to how how some of his patterns were designed that I'm not a fan of but I think I have better explained what I meant by pattern and there's no need to start a list.

[Double 0 Soul]

What does Roy do for a living now? With his propensity to be rude with unfiltered comments it’s not like he can ever work in a public facing role.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Double 0 Soul

[chicote]

I know nothing concrete about Roy as a person, have only gotten the chance to wear a pair of his jeans in the context of a world tour (it was the big bro 2s which, who knows what happened w those??), so don’t really have any skin in the game here, but from my distance I see Roy as someone who’s obsessively devoted to his craft, perhaps to a greater extent than most other craftspeople nowadays, to the point where things like socializing, marketing, building his “brand” in that way might feel wholly outside of his field of interest, expertise or even capability. I mean, working alone in an empty warehouse every day, surrounded by dozens of ancient machines that you might as well be the world’s foremost expert on repairing, or at least hardly ever come across someone who understands them the way you do, plus already having a strange and eccentric line of work… if he wasn’t already an antisocial person at the start of this career, I could see how quickly this lifestyle would make him one. I have a lot of respect for Roy just because of the image I have in my mind of him as someone who’s wholly passionate about what he does, and not in it, at least on the surface, for fame or wealth or personal glory. If he has an ego about his work, I greatly prefer his quiet way of showing it to the self-obsessed peacocks we see all over the internet nowadays, even if his interactions with people might not be as polished as what we are used to.

[indigoeagle]

Looks like he can go all the way on Levis repros in Japan with impunity.

Arcs and red tab over there are fine, I think.

[Double 0 Soul]

2 hours ago, chicote said:

I mean, working alone in an empty warehouse every day, surrounded by dozens of ancient machines that you might as well be the world’s foremost expert on repairing, or at least hardly ever come across someone who understands them the way you do, plus already having a strange and eccentric line of work… if he wasn’t already an antisocial person at the start of this career, I could see how quickly this lifestyle would make him one. 

If this excuses rudeness.. then you’re all a bunch of fucking cnuts!! 

[shredwin_206]

No excuses for why he can’t be a decent human being. I’ll just leave it at that. 
his interaction with me really rubbed me the wrong way and I sold every piece of Roy clothing I had after that. 

[Double 0 Soul]

Shut up Edwin! 

If socialising, marketing and building his brand are outside his capabilities how/why is he on Instagram?

 

[Talan]

I don't own any of Roy's pieces, but it seems to me that everyone is entitled to act any way they please. And everyone else is entitled to react in any way possible. Compassion seems more appropriate to me than condemnation. After all, no one chooses anything; we are all conditioned from the outside.

By the way, I am very sympathetic to Roy's Japanese project. I don't know the true reasons for what's going on, I hope Roy is on another amazing journey. I can't know what the end result will be, I would like to be able to obtain some unique piece in the end. But, if not, that's fine too. 
 

[Talan]

5 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Shut up Edwin! 

If socialising, marketing and building his brand are outside his capabilities how/why is he on Instagram?

 

I know people who are not socialising, marketing and build brands and have IG.

[Double 0 Soul]

Surely it was his ‘Roy’ brand instagram account which Edwin was banned from? unless Edwin has been trolling Roy’s personal life?

I dunno.. I’ve never used it, it’s beyond my field of interest too

[Double 0 Soul]

10 minutes ago, Talan said:

I don't own any of Roy's pieces, but it seems to me that everyone is entitled to act any way they please. And everyone else is entitled to react in any way possible
 

I don’t disagree.. if you’re a cnut to people you’ve got to expect a backlash 

[Talan]

2 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

I don’t disagree.. if you’re a cnut to people you’ve got to expect a backlash 

If you don't want anything from others, there's nothing to expect. After all, it's all out of control. Everything is out of control. Why bother?

[Maynard Friedman]

I don’t know why Roy’s getting so much flak here. He made good products, seems to be articulate and has a sense of humour. One person had a negative exchange with him, possibly because Roy saw his products as artisanal and didn’t think they should be abused. 

It’s the customer’s choice what they do with their own clothing BUT if Roy sells direct, then I suppose he can choose who he sells to (unless it’s in breach of regulations relating to discriminatory practices I imagine!). I think Roy knows his brand well and that a rude email wouldn’t damage it or create a backlash, others have had good experiences with him. His business principles seem sound, unlike WH Ranch (pay now and wait 10 years) or CSF (jump through these hoops and sign a dodgy agreement not to resell your jeans). NOTE: I’ve just picked these brands from hearsay on the forum and have no direct experience of either.

EDIT: I totally understand @shredwin_206’s annoyance and would probably feel the same way if it was me but I also understand why Roy might have felt like he did (although I don’t believe that justified his response) and don’t think it makes him a bad person. I’m such a fence-sitter. Ouch! Those splinters… 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Maynard Friedman

[Double 0 Soul]

Ha! 

We’re backing ourselves so far into a principled corner.. they’ll only be Warehouse or Denime to choose from soon 

[beautiful_FrEaK]

18 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Ha! 

We’re backing ourselves so far into a principled corner.. they’ll only be Warehouse or Denime to choose from soon 

That's fine by me

[shredwin_206]

21 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Ha! 

We’re backing ourselves so far into a principled corner.. they’ll only be Warehouse or Denime to choose from soon 

Freewheelers is always king though  

[Double 0 Soul]

3 minutes ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

That's fine by me

The prices will go up!

I wouldn’t say he’s ‘coming in for flak’ @Maynard Friedman he’s just getting a friendly elbow in the ribs for his lack of people skills.. I’m sure he’d just tell me to fuck off which would be fine and understandable.

Y’know, it’s the Roy thread, most contributors love him unconditionally.. me giving him a bit of hassle isn’t going to change their opinion.

[Jared_Lee]

One thing to consider as well is neurodivergence. It's complete speculation, but the behaviors described by @chicote aren't necessarily as simple as "an artist's genius" or whatever. It's not about giving a pass for poor behavior to a person because of their creative eccentricity. It's about considering that those eccentric behaviors may be part of a bigger picture neurodivergence that can absolutely prevent one from behaving in social settings according to neurotypical standards. This may not be the case at all, but often we dismiss neurodivergent people incapable of socializing according to neurotypical standards as assholes, discompassionate, self involved, cold, etc. when the person is none of those things.

[JohnM]

Roy can be direct and fearless in saying exactly what's on his mind.  But he's not self righteous or arrogant -- he knows his flaws and will readily admit them.  I don't know him that well but he lives near me and we've had a few exchanges over the years.  His intelligence, commitment to what he's doing, insight, and good humor make our (limited) exchanges worthwhile, despite the darts.  Of course, I may be a glutton for punishment ...

[Double 0 Soul]

To sum things up we’ve got..

1) neurodivergent 

2) tortured genius.. or

3) rude

Well this has been fun! ..we should make it a regular feature of the forum.. ‘the Sufu pseudo-psychiatrism thread’ we could dissect the personality of a different denim brand owner every week..

I’m sure they’d love it! 

[chicote]

We could start by dissecting forum members first 

[Maynard Friedman]

Perhaps Roy (and not Rupert Murdoch) was the inspiration behind Logan Roy?