Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[DhaDha]

not trying to break a good streak here but there was a thread dedicated to personal grails just a few months back where people were doing exactly just this, what happened to that thread? 

 

on another note, how do people feel about 'retiring' a pair of jeans just after they reached a point where they are beginning to look like the kind of distressed designer jeans some particular subset of people shove $300+ for? i always find it kind of weird that the jeans get retired right where they are presumably, at least in the popular perception, at their most aesthetical. sometimes it seems most people in raw denim community just wear jeans to get sick fades, and to wear the most pair as possible,  and not to wear jeans with sick fades.

Edited December 23, 2015 by DhaDha

[chicote]

I often get that impression too. I'd imagine it's a product of the same avenue of thought that makes us want to frame our 'perfectly' worn (but still functional) jeans, or to meticulously document their evolutions, so that we can point at one specific time period and say, "there was the golden age of this specific pair."

To me, the aesthetic quality of worn jeans follows a sort of curvilinear pattern. They're not much to look at out of the box, honestly, and while the first hints of fading, torn threads, etc. are nice, they're still not much to speak of. At some point, the jeans hit a high point on this bell curve—maybe when the indigo has been worn out of the thighs, or the knees begin to go, or the overall color reaches some nice shade of blue—where exactly this is is surely different for everyone. From that point on, however, the pleasure one derives from looking at the jeans might decrease as they get progressively more worn; eventually, they're once again not much to speak of, just a mess of darned and frayed fabric.

One notable example might be Cander's Samurais from last DWC... if my memory serves me correctly, I saw them as having reached "grail" status around 14-16 months in—and then getting progressively more dirty and destroyed in the final months of the contest. By the time the contest finished I didn't find them all that nice looking. Though it was certainly impressive that they'd been so thrashed, to me they had long since passed their high point.

Maybe this all leads to a question then.. since I've been writing this I've been thinking of how to describe where this "grail" point is for me. Wherever it is, I don't have a pair that has gotten there yet. But I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts or descriptions if they know exactly where they'd like their jeans to get to. Maybe we're rotating through jeans so often because we're most pleased by our jeans' appearance rather early on in their lives. Maybe we realize, at some point, that the jeans we've been wearing aren't going to reach the ideal pair we have in our heads. Or maybe we're all just lazy and quick to let consumerism seduce us into new jeans before we feel we're truly ready.

Edited December 23, 2015 by chicote

[Maynard Friedman]

Sometimes people retire them because they are falling apart and need repairs every time they're worn, not because they don't want to wear them any longer. It is paradoxical that when they reach the point of perfection they become almost unwearable.

[Cold Summer]

For me, I'll retire a pair from everyday wear when they reach the desired level of fading - but I don't stop wearing them altogether. To me, once they've reached their ideal state, it makes sense to wear them a little more sparingly, so that they last longer. 

[itsbenhere]

It's funny that you guys are talking about this, just this morning I was thinking about it. My plan is to have 3 pairs of jeans: One super beat, one medium-wash, and one dark and crispy.

 

The only "problem" I have right now are that my 3005 are a perfect medium-wash, but I was planning on beating them to death. I think that almost all jeans can look great after they've been worn to oblivion (provided you like the look in the first place), and fresh jeans all pretty much look the same too, but when they've been worn for about a year is what separates the men from the boys.

 

[cmboland]

It's funny that you guys are talking about this, just this morning I was thinking about it. My plan is to have 3 pairs of jeans: One super beat, one medium-wash, and one dark and crispy.

The only "problem" I have right now are that my 3005 are a perfect medium-wash, but I was planning on beating them to death. I think that almost all jeans can look great after they've been worn to oblivion (provided you like the look in the first place), and fresh jeans all pretty much look the same too, but when they've been worn for about a year is what separates the men from the boys.

Can we take a moment to find out wth kind of car you're in

[1fookntitefd]

^ lexus?

[VivaMarlon]

^ lexus?

Was my guess as well.

[itsbenhere]

Does the car look weird or something? It's just an old infiniti.. haha

[cmboland]

Does the car look weird or something? It's just an old infiniti.. haha

Well i drive a shitty 10 year old stratus so figured wood interior spikes interest.

[BrownMetallic]

For me, I'll retire a pair from everyday wear when they reach the desired level of fading - but I don't stop wearing them altogether. To me, once they've reached their ideal state, it makes sense to wear them a little more sparingly, so that they last longer.

Exactly my POV.

Used to raze them to the ground, but then I realized, when I asked myself the question__ What's the purpose of constantly working on them to fade ?! .... Ans: To achieve a personal "Grail" .... If that's the case, why would I debase a grail?

So, my denim philosophy has shifted from pure consumption to preservation. I don't "retire" my jeans, I elevate them to Leisure Wear.

Afterall, with precious time & work invested in them, I should be able to reap the Fruit Of The [narrow] Loom ;)

Edited December 23, 2015 by BrownMetallic

[itsbenhere]

^^ that car is actually 13 years old, it's pretty weird how much I love it.

BM, I completely agree with you!

[tvshooter]

i'll echo what BrownMetallic and Cold Summer said, but I'll add this-  Some of my grail pairs are 4+ years old.  My body just isn't the same. That and I do believe that jeans (after washing) continually shrink.  Some stretch out a little more than others but for the most part there is some level of shrinkage.  personally, i tend to stick to one or two pairs at a time, but I do like to throw on the beat/grail pair on weekends. (nobody notices)  just can't wear them like that to work anymore.

[Rightyow77]

I read the term "grail" metaphorically. It is the ideal aesthetic state that we all strive for in a pair of jeans, perhaps in all things. We long to "own" part of that perfectness, that intangible plutonic object disappearing into the horizon the moment it brushes our imagination. The material manifestation of life's bliss that is a beautifully beat up pair of cotton jawnz, encapsulates the ethos of the human condition; change. But to some, at least in my case it is the pursuit of that "ideal" and the evolving paradigm of "sick fades" that stoke the fires of my obsession. Grail jeans are much like the human experience a complex and dynamic thing...

 

Hahahhah no but in all seriousness I retire my jeans once they are no longer wearable, like beat down to the ground. Dead.

 

But I honestly like your mode of thought Ben..

Justifies me blowing my hard earned money of several pairs.

[Iron Horse]

Well i drive a shitty 10 year old stratus so figured wood interior spikes interest.

 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Iron Horse

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I wish everyone of you Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Season's Greetings, etc!

[BrownMetallic]

i'll echo what BrownMetallic and Cold Summer said, but I'll add this- Some of my grail pairs are 4+ years old. My body just isn't the same. That and I do believe that jeans (after washing) continually shrink. Some stretch out a little more than others but for the most part there is some level of shrinkage. personally, i tend to stick to one or two pairs at a time, but I do like to throw on the beat/grail pair on weekends. (nobody notices) just can't wear them like that to work anymore.

.

Agree on both__ anatomical "changes" that occur as one gets older & the residual shrinkage from dormancy ... IMO, starch gives structure & firmness/hold => the absence of it allows the cotton fiber to react freely to ambient condition, eg, [lack of constant] tension, temperature, dampness, etc. When jawns are stored/unworn for a long time, the yarns contract >> w/c cause the weave to contract & tighten up.

I know peeps say, "but, u can always stretch them out!".

'Just don't have the energy nor interest for that__ when I'm done working on a pair, I'm done ... I just want to be able to wear them w/o the struggle or further ado ... Or maybe cuz I'm just getting too old 😕

Sizing down to see what I can get away with, is a thing of the past__ Future-sizing w/c is a SU1 from "spot on" is my new thing now.

Edited December 25, 2015 by BrownMetallic

[bradl]

This definitely is filed under the blunders category. I don't expect anyone to watch it, as I won't but this SOP RGT cult thing is just ridiculous. In this video the dude from snake oil provision goes over his pet peeves and store ettiqute.

I was chatting with someone at a shop today and he brought this up and told me a few of the points of the video and I was pretty surprised. A couple of them are, don't ever talk about brands we don't carry, even if you're trying to help someone with a fit. This stems from someone asking how they fit compared to apc and someone on the comment chain (instagram) helping them out. That dude from sop freaked out at them and deleted their string of comments, seems pretty childish. Another point was a customer should never know more about the products in the store than the person working there...

I guess I might just have a pre disposition to not like them as I am sick of all these rgt/mia pod boys on instagram posting the same outfits over and over again

[knucks]

LOL this is hilarious. Also considering what 'snakeoil' is defined as. LOLOLOLOL.

[bradl]

It perfectly describes the mentality of their clientele, and how they sell stuff.

[itsbenhere]

I liked how he talked about how important it is to greet someone when they walk in, super true.

 

It seems super hard to be this guy though, maybe it's just me, but it seems like he tries wayyyyy too hard to be cool.

[cmboland]

It perfectly describes the mentality of their clientele, and how they sell stuff.

I'm pretty over those Instagram accounts. I don't follow any of them but they pop up in droves on "explore" it's amazing how much they get circlejerked. You know... Bio says "denim, boots, SLUBFADERZZZ" all redwing all flannel...... I mean I like RGT but shit.

[dwilson123]

I have absolutely no opinion on RgT or SOP and I don't really see anything wrong with the video.  He's basically extolling small business values.  The customer should be welcomed and greeted.  Makes sense.  The store should have some ambient music.  Makes sense.  Employees should be knowledgeable about the products they carry.  Makes sense.  You should treat the employees with the same respect you want from yourself.  Makes sense.  Don't use a business as a show room for Amazon.com.  Makes sense.

 

I don't really have any beefs with the video.  In fact I agree with most of it.  The ONLY thing I think is silly is "Don't ask about brands we don't sell."  I don't really agree with that point.  If I am trying on a pair of RgT and I'm wondering how they compare in fit, quality and denim to say 3Sixteen I'm not sure what the problem is there.  Obviously the salesman should steer you towards RgT (its what they sell) but to take offense to it seems extremely odd.

 

-edit-

 

I also don't have an instagram account and I only use Twitter to follow Korean Starcraft players so maybe that also helps my opinion on the matter

Edited December 25, 2015 by dwilson123

[cmboland]

^well just go look at the accounts of those who participated in the rogue territory slub faders contest.

[dwilson123]

I also echo him on the "LOL $250 for jeans?!" shit.  Its just annoying and I could imagine if you work in a retail space with high-end mens clothing if it happens more often than one a blue moon it would be grating.  I'm going to have to deal with my wife's side of the family this weekend and the last time we met I was wearing an SNS Stark and her grandmother liked it and wanted to buy one for herself.  After tap dancing around it for a bit I had to bite the bullet and told her the brand is SNS and the model is stark cardigan.  I know for a fact I'm going to hear about my $300 sweater.  Its fucking annoying.  I didn't go to college to be an engineer to shop at Old Navy.

[bradl]

The part about asking about brands was the part I found ridiculous, just by what it is based on. It was some dude from Calgary he was pretty much calling out. But agree with Ben, just trys to hard.

Also dwilson I wouldn't have an opiniom on rgt if I didn't go on instagram. But it's so stupid there is a group of people that all dress the exact same, all wear the same boots, all like photography, all like abandoned areas, and all pose the exact same. It's seriously retarded.

[knucks]

I also echo him on the "LOL $250 for jeans?!" shit.  Its just annoying and I could imagine if you work in a retail space with high-end mens clothing if it happens more often than one a blue moon it would be grating.  I'm going to have to deal with my wife's side of the family this weekend and the last time we met I was wearing an SNS Stark and her grandmother liked it and wanted to buy one for herself.  After tap dancing around it for a bit I had to bite the bullet and told her the brand is SNS and the model is stark cardigan.  I know for a fact I'm going to hear about my $300 sweater.  Its fucking annoying.  I didn't go to college to be an engineer to shop at Old Navy.

Subtle "i make money" post bro. You too good for Old Navy?

Edited December 25, 2015 by knucks

[dwilson123]

Also dwilson I wouldn't have an opiniom on rgt if I didn't go on instagram. But it's so stupid there is a group of people that all dress the exact same, all wear the same boots, all like photography, all like abandoned areas, and all pose the exact same. It's seriously retarded.

 

I don't see how that is too dissimilar to any community.  Especially one where exposure is based upon consensus.  [note: I'm assuming Instagram bubbles stuff up via some like/share mechanism]  Being into a brand like RgT is a definitively "hipster" [note2: I hate that term] thing to be into and common hobbies for that culture is being into photography, coffee, food, boots, Americana ...  It just sounds like RgT sub culture has decided on their group consensus for whats best and people just jerk around that.  But that attitude isn't unique to RgT or anything because you see the same shit on Reddit (J Crew + SLUBZZZ + Red Wings), here, sneaker forums, steetwear forums ... I mean it just happens.

[dwilson123]

Subtle "i make money" post bro. You too good for Old Navy?

 

Even when I had to shop at Old Navy I hated it.  I wouldn't say I'm too good for it but I have zero interest ever shopping there again.  And when you query me about articles of clothing I own don't expect go run down to Khol's and pick it up and you can also leave the "You paid HOW much?!" at the door as well.

[knucks]

Looks like I'm never shopping at SnakeOil. This guy has a bad attitude. I agree with some stuff, not others.