Shoes that look better with age...

[Duke Mantee]

4 hours ago, julian-wolf said:

@Duke Mantee That’s good info, thanks. So, when people market leather as “horse butt”, is that generally from the rump (incl. shell), or from the actual butt (which I guess would be part of the front, assuming horses are described in similar terms to other stock)?

The butt is what you’d immediately think it is - so really anything south from (and including) the strip. Remember the diagrams are only indicative, those areas can be bigger, smaller or even (within reason) in a different position … just depends in the beast from which the hide was obtained.

I think terminology can be confusing because we don’t fully understand the industry and processes, and worse the corner of the internet we inhabit often has a dreadful tendency to cherry-pick or misuse information (‘raw denim’ - which to a thread probably isn’t; ‘great leather’ - because there’s a strong grain or texture which was probably machine made ; and so on).

Edited July 11, 2022 by Duke Mantee

[julian-wolf]

40 minutes ago, Duke Mantee said:

The butt is what you’d immediately think it is - so really anything south from (and including) the strip.

This is not what I’d immediately think—I think of pork butt as being just above the shoulder, and beef butt as being from the loin, neither of which are really in that section, and I guess I’d assumed that horse would follow a similar trend—but that might be more regional than I’d realized, or just more context-dependent

When I think of the back end of livestock, “rump” is the first term that comes to mind

Edited July 11, 2022 by julian-wolf

[chicote]

Thanks for this discussion up here guys ^^ this is all really enlightening to understand the differences in terminology between different animal-product processing industries.

Here are a couple photos of my flat head engineers which use a tea core chromexcel.

I’ve had them six months and have worn them somewhat regularly in that time. Conditioned once after a couple weeks and then left pretty well alone since then per the advice of you all here.

I like how the leather is aging, there’s a lot of wear on my inner left boot from my motorcycle and some wrinkling forming on the inner shafts of both boots, maybe from engine heat? Not sure. But they’re coming along nicely.

For those of you more familiar with chromexcel, at what point does this leather start to really dry out / need conditioning? I don’t want to baby these boots really but also want the leather to last, and know keeping some oil in the leather is important for that.

 

 

[tod]

4 hours ago, chicote said:

Thanks for this discussion up here guys ^^ this is all really enlightening to understand the differences in terminology between different animal-product processing industries.

Here are a couple photos of my flat head engineers which use a tea core chromexcel.

 

I’ve had them six months and have worn them somewhat regularly in that time. Conditioned once after a couple weeks and then left pretty well alone since then per the advice of you all here.

 

I like how the leather is aging, there’s a lot of wear on my inner left boot from my motorcycle and some wrinkling forming on the inner shafts of both boots, maybe from engine heat? Not sure. But they’re coming along nicely.

For those of you more familiar with chromexcel, at what point does this leather start to really dry out / need conditioning? I don’t want to baby these boots really but also want the leather to last, and know keeping some oil in the leather is important for that.

 

 

My experience with CXL is not so much that it dries out but gets scraped up as your boots are getting, which look great btw! I trust the leather experts who say that most of us condition our boots far more than they need to be. I would say to treat them if you want to rub away some of the scuffing, but otherwise there’s probably no need to.

Edited July 12, 2022 by tod

[mlwdp]

I personally think I baby mine by using Saphir just once on them.  Got rid of the scrapes etc on them by using it.

Edited July 12, 2022 by mlwdp

[HGS]

@chicote chromexcel (like shell) is a pretty low maintenance leather.  also like shell even just a vigorous brushing can do a lot to restore it.  I would put cream on my chromexcel boots just a few times a year.

[Duke Mantee]

10 hours ago, julian-wolf said:

This is not what I’d immediately think—I think of pork butt as being just above the shoulder, and beef butt as being from the loin, neither of which are really in that section, and I guess I’d assumed that horse would follow a similar trend—but that might be more regional than I’d realized, or just more context-dependent

When I think of the back end of livestock, “rump” is the first term that comes to mind

Ah - so your confusion is rooted in the American misuse of ‘butt’ - which comes from the butt (or barrel) used to store meat  

Edited July 12, 2022 by Duke Mantee

[Duke Mantee]

10 hours ago, chicote said:

For those of you more familiar with chromexcel, at what point does this leather start to really dry out / need conditioning? I don’t want to baby these boots really but also want the leather to last, and know keeping some oil in the leather is important for that.

CXL is stuffed with oils and waxes to a much higher degree than a veg tanned leather so arguably it’ll take longer to dry out, but I’d still put a bit of conditioner on those boots. It’s not going to change how great they look - a little bit more sheen for a while until the conditioner soaks in, but shouldn’t really affect the colour.

I think @mlwdp mentioned Saphir (which is very good) but most leather conditioners/dressing that are made natural materials (tallows, beeswax etc) from will be more than adequate … I use Sedgwick leather feed because I can get it easily and it’s great stuff

[Jared_Lee]

I agree with @Duke Mantee. Give em a quick wipe down with a wet rag, a brushing and add just a little conditioner. It'll spruce em up, feed the leather, but not overdo it. They look great, @chicote!

[sensy]

Tender Sidings Boot

Definitely my favorite summer time boot. 

 

 

[indigoeagle]

Is anybody eyeing these?
Two Monkey boots- a project by the Jelado founder and I think a previous Red Wings Japan MD.
Hmm, US 10 seems to be the biggest size.

https://jelado.com/products/two-monkeys-sportifblack-tm72924

[mlwdp]

They look like those boots offered by White’s boots Japan.

[MJF9]

^^ the coat, easy pants and waist pullover (novel design) caught my eye

[Hopethisoneisnttaken]

These came in today. Feel really great. I’m looking forward to wearing them. 

[indigoeagle]

1 hour ago, Hopethisoneisnttaken said:

These came in today. Feel really great. I’m looking forward to wearing them. 

 

 

They look very nice.

 

What are they? Clinch? Bridge Brothers?

[Hopethisoneisnttaken]

8 hours ago, indigoeagle said:

They look very nice.

 

What are they? Clinch? Bridge Brothers?

Thank you! 
they are Brother Bridge “Henry”. The black dyed version. 

[bartlebyyphonics]

that's a hella-yes @Hopethisoneisnttaken... very nice! 

[mlwdp]

They’re finished!

Spec:

Black Chromexcel 

Leather lining 

Vintage triple stitching 

Dr Sole sole

Roller buckles by http://hukurokuju.com/

[mlwdp]

Clinch is working with Black Sign on a collab.

[julian-wolf]

Passed through Spokane this morning on the way back from a couple weeks in Alberta (more on that later)

Had a seriously great chicken-fried steak for breakfast at a roadside diner and somehow ended up leaving town with an order in for a pair of JK boots to use in the backcountry…not sure how that happened

Should be ready in around a month; will post thorough pics & opinions—but, for now, I can say with certainty that I’m really, really excited

[nick682]

On 8/12/2022 at 8:48 PM, julian-wolf said:

Passed through Spokane this morning on the way back from a couple weeks in Alberta (more on that later)

Had a seriously great chicken-fried steak for breakfast at a roadside diner and somehow ended up leaving town with an order in for a pair of JK boots to use in the backcountry…not sure how that happened

Should be ready in around a month; will post thorough pics & opinions—but, for now, I can say with certainty that I’m really, really excited

Which pair did you get? I've been considering ordering a pair, but can't decide which. 

[julian-wolf]

@nick682 Not sure on the style, I can try and find the receipt and get back to you. Chatted with the guy running the shop for a while and felt like we landed on a really good middle ground. It’s their standard construction, but with a single-piece sole + heel (no heel stacks) and with no screws in the sole. The heel is also around a half inch lower, which is generally my preference. Overall, should be a good bit lighter than their work boots. It’s based on a new line that they introduced recently specifically for trekking (my primary use case), but the new line has a midsole that tapers down at the ball of the foot in order to offer more flexibility, and I prefer a stiffer sole so I went for the standard full midsole. Light tan leather (I think they called it mocha?) with rough-out lowers and smooth-out uppers, and a full 10” height. The try-on pair was extremely comfortable.

Edited August 16, 2022 by julian-wolf

[Broark]

Pre-ordered these from Yuketen back in May and they're finally here.
Hex-eye boat shoes with Cortina lug sole. Leather is pebble grain Chromexcel. I love how over the top the sole is.
Wore them yesterday and they're very comfortable, think they'll get a lot of year-round wear.

[Jared_Lee]

Those look great, @Broark! I'm excited to see them worked into your outfits. 

[Broark]

Thanks Jared, they’re quite beefy. 
Think they’ll pair well with my new FW fatigues.

[julian-wolf]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:41 PM, julian-wolf said:

White's Hikers got a real workout over the past couple of days. Soaked through, dried by the fire (before it got too hot), and right back on my feet. So far they're still holding up okay. Post-conditioning photos to come.

Didn't get around to conditioning these until this afternoon, but here they are now:

They're still holding up alright. The stitching connecting the quarters to the vamps has needed to be fixed in two different locations, but no other real issues. The tongues twist way over to the sides, which is sort of a bummer. It's also sort of a bummer that the tongues aren't gusseted, since it means that these are really only water resistant down to like 3 or 4 inches, which isn't very useful.

The biggest issue is that they've never fit me quite right. For whatever reason, they sized me as a 10.5 E for these. I've since been resized, for other White's, as a 10.5 D, and those fit much better. Go figure. I can make them work okay with a leather insole, but it would be nice not to need to deal with all that.

[julian-wolf]

To the above points…I've been on a bit of a hiking boot buying spree this past year. One pair that I'd had my eyes on for a long time is the Rannoch boots from Hoggs of Fife. They're 7" veldtschoen country boots made in the Cheaney factory in Northampton. They're not intended for trekking (obviously), but, all the same, they seemed like they would fit my use case well. They're extremely well priced to begin with, but a couple of months ago I found a good deal on a pair in my size and gave them a go.

They came with me on my recent trip to Alberta, and were worn for both hikes (see other thread). I like them a lot.

They treated me well through some pretty serious stream crossings, and the stitching and welting appear to be fairly watertight, which, along with the fully gusseted tongue, is a big plus. That said, they're still made of leather—so, over the course of two full days hiking through rain and hail in Banff, they got pretty thoroughly soaked through, and they didn't really see a chance to dry out fully for a good chunk of the whole trip. They were still very comfortable, even when wet, but I mention this whole episode to highlight the extent to which they were really put through the wringer.

Here they are after ~10 days of heavy use:

 

and Here they are after a thorough cleaning and conditioning this afternoon:

 

I'm looking forward to beating the hell out of these over the next few years. When they eventually need a resole, I'll probably transition them to street shoes. Great functionality aside, I like the aesthetic quite a bit.

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

@julian-wolf I'm just curious about your choice of tools so to speak - what's it most motivated by?

Do you find these old school leather boots (I'm referring to both pairs, above - I know only one is specifically a hiker) better than what say, Solomon or Keen or Vasque or (whatever, choose your maker) are making? I have a pair of Solomon hikers and while I don't love how they look and they don't develop a nice patina they've been way better for me over the long run from a pure use standpoint. You're definitely putting in more use at a time than I am these days - but mine have seen a lot of use over time. 

[julian-wolf]

@AlientoyWorkmachine I go back and forth on that. For years, I hiked in trail runners, which are great for many reasons. Overall, though, I find that I prefer reliable ankle support—partially because rolling my ankle once on a long trek was more than enough, and partially because I find that I take in more of my surroundings rather than just looking at the ground (incidentally, the same primary reason that I prefer hiking with poles)—which brings the conversation to boots.

I’m sure that, if my goal was laying down as many miles as possible, some lightweight modern composite boot would be the right choice; there’s no comparison there. When weight isn’t a primary concern, though, I feel that leather hits the best middle-ground between water resistance and breathability. I like being able to walk through a few inches of water without getting wet, but I can’t stand how sweaty my feet get in GoreTex. Up ‘til this point, at least, I think I can reasonably justify my decisions in a way that would appeal to someone less interested in fancy clothes and boots.

Even within the category of leather hikers, though, there are plenty of reasonably cemented options that are much more modern, lighter weight, and likely somewhat more water resistant. My preference for this sort of old-style boot over those is purely aesthetic. I’m out in the backcountry to have the best time I can, after all, and a big part of having a good time, for me, is enjoying everything about my surroundings—not just the trees and the creeks and the mountains, but my boots & my clothes & my other gear as well. I’m convinced that I get more enjoyment out of a long hike wearing cool gear than I would wearing modern tech, and that’s worth a lot to me. Again, if I was interested in longer-term through hikes where every ounce really mattered, I’m sure my thoughts on that would change—but, when it comes down to it, that sort of thing really doesn’t appeal to me in the first place. Besides, I’m usually not the slowest person in my group anyway, so I might as well live it up a bit.

Edited August 20, 2022 by julian-wolf

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

2 hours ago, julian-wolf said:

@AlientoyWorkmachine I go back and forth on that. For years, I hiked in trail runners, which are great for many reasons. Overall, though, I find that I prefer reliable ankle support—partially because rolling my ankle once on a long trek was more than enough, and partially because I find that I take in more of my surroundings rather than just looking at the ground (incidentally, the same primary reason that I prefer hiking with poles)—which brings the conversation to boots.

I’m sure that, if my goal was laying down as many miles as possible, some lightweight modern composite boot would be the right choice; there’s no comparison there. When weight isn’t a primary concern, though, I feel that leather hits the best middle-ground between water resistance and breathability. I like being able to walk through a few inches of water without getting wet, but I can’t stand how sweaty my feet get in GoreTex. Up ‘til this point, at least, I think I can reasonably justify my decisions in a way that would appeal to someone less interested in fancy clothes and boots.

Even within the category of leather hikers, though, there are plenty of reasonably cemented options that are much more modern, lighter weight, and likely somewhat more water resistant. My preference for this sort of old-style boot over those is purely aesthetic. I’m out in the backcountry to have the best time I can, after all, and a big part of having a good time, for me, is enjoying everything about my surroundings—not just the trees and the creeks and the mountains, but my boots & my clothes & my other gear as well. I’m convinced that I get more enjoyment out of a long hike wearing cool gear than I would wearing modern tech, and that’s worth a lot to me. Again, if I was interested in longer-term through hikes where every ounce really mattered, I’m sure my thoughts on that would change—but, when it comes down to it, that sort of thing really doesn’t appeal to me in the first place. Besides, I’m usually not the slowest person in my group anyway, so I might as well live it up a bit.

Yea, my ankles are trashed after years of trail running and skateboarding injuries so I need that support, though I too prefer to hike in trail shoes (actually, my favorites have been minimalist trail shoes with a rock plate). Despite my preference I'll go for the boots more often than not....which isn't happening a lot right now anyways. 

I get your reasoning though. For me, the stacked heel is the one thing I have trouble getting around (though not an issue on a lot of leather hikers it seems), even for long urban strolls, they generally make my feet feel pretty rough after a few miles even. I've still got a few decent(ish) pairs of boots, but they hardly get wear anymore mostly for this reason. My pair is getting old though, finally, so I was considering at least looking for some leather options for next time, depending on the sole/insole designs.