Acronym.

[strikethrough]

1 hour ago, mariahscarry said:

Retailers who have carried Acronym for more than a decade such as Haven have stopped carrying the brand, this alone speaks volumes. 

Seeing Haven not pick up this season was definitely an eyebrow raising moment. I've found myself more and more feeling like the aesthetic of Acronym is diverging from what I am looking for in technical garments, despite the recent turn towards graphical elements being something that I didn't mind (reminds me of earlier-era Acronym, more specifically the louder 3A items back in early 10's). Coincidentally enough, the more straight-forward, practical, workwear inspired looks that Haven is doing with their in-house label seem to be what I'm more drawn to now.

After so many years of observing the various ebbs and flows of Acronym's design language, I think we all need to come to terms with the idea that the clothes will always reflect the ever-evolving tastes of the few handful of people behind their design. This time around, its studs and spikes, a couple of years from now, will be something entirely different. It is what it is.

[nathan_]

The designs use to scream thorough research and excellent execution, now they scream "look at me look at me look at me" and nothing else.

That's what streetwear has been all about for a few years now, disappointing but not really surprising that Acronym is following the money in this sense. I'm almost certain that there have been new additions to the design team who are... much younger.

[moneytalks]

J1WB-E is such an exciting jacket in theory but the sleeves look like complete ass. as an older acr enjoyer i don't even mind the spikes but the cuts just scream gen z cosplaying 00s style 
just style it a size up, why did they have to fuck with a perfect silo smh

[mariahscarry]

1 hour ago, nathan_ said:

The designs use to scream thorough research and excellent execution, now they scream "look at me look at me look at me" and nothing else.

That's what streetwear has been all about for a few years now, disappointing but not really surprising that Acronym is following the money in this sense. I'm almost certain that there have been new additions to the design team who are... much younger.

“Following the money” isn’t a bad thing, but it is when you decide to sabotage the integrity of the experimental technical design brand that you’ve…i’m assuming…worked so hard to build and accomplish? Acronym has always been “cool” and it was effortless, now it feels like they’re trying to be “cool” and the effort is falling very short from the customer base you built up for close to two decades to now abandon ship and try and force feed us this shit/ever-evolving taste designs that I can only hope that it’s obvious to E that he knows we aren’t here for it. 

 

Like no offense to E looking to evolve his brand, but why not just do it under a new brand name like most brands do, and then leave Acronym to its original DNA. CDG for example is very good at separating their brand identities. 

 

I can’t help but think that E could literally re-release 15’-17’ and do no harm. We’re past the point of caring about MiC, we’re over it. Time is of the fucking essence if you ask me. Holding onto these proven-successful designs to try new ideas seems like a large waste of time imo. 

[jeddyhsu]

i know e + team check up on sufu. would be interested in hearing their thought process. delusionally wishing they'd release newsletters or actual communication (outside of mailchimp drip campaigns) outside of e's ig comments too. 

[nathan_]

2 hours ago, mariahscarry said:

“Following the money” isn’t a bad thing.

If following the money were not a bad thing, due to the implications, I wouldn't be complaining about them following the money lol

[leg]

3 hours ago, mariahscarry said:

“Following the money” isn’t a bad thing

I doubt it has anything to do with money because, as you can see for yourself, the new products aren't selling well either. Haven, which carried the acronym for more than a decade, making the decision not to carry ACR anymore is very telling. I think the problem is that Errolson gave too much creative power to the wrong people without setting clear guidelines and may have become less involved in the process himself, as he did with the last seasons of Shadow Project. I'm not saying that his tastes haven't changed, but you should know your audience; even if you like wearing Balenciaga clown shoes, it doesn't mean that the people buying your jackets do. I'm 100% sure that if he had just taken the best items from the 2015-2017 season and simply re-released them as is at a reasonable price, people would be clearing the shelves. I still remember how buying a €1000 jacket with addition tape, allowing you to hide the logo, was a mind-blowing idea – that's what Acronym is all about, not 3M logos on the back or spikes on the head. He could've just looked at Visvim and followed what Hiroki is doing because he's been doing the same thing for 20 years and is still doing great. Haven still carries it, and his items are still selling out without much of a problem, even though they're as expensive as ACR.

[DeadHype]

Imo they made their promise come true with sorting out retail partners, seemingly they got a pretty strict policy if you want to keep the account as a retailer. 
So that’s maybe playing a role on havens end of stocking it too.

And are there really people outside of the whole acronym bubble who think, yeah I just spent 1800$ on a raincoat while window shopping? 

Yeah, the bold graphic stuff might work for some people, I personally enjoy the understatement and streamlined designs more, imo the designs speak for their own on the older stuff, so no need for bold graphics or super oversized fits. On the other hand I enjoy pieces like the Leo print NG and the p30a-l, it really depends on how you blend it into fits. 
 

Let’s see how this season is going and who is still stocking by mid next year. I will definitely check out the j70-bu in person, would be also interesting to see how the fit of this develops with the wear of the material. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by DeadHype

[DeadHype]

Also, just rereleasing popular items seems like a dead end to me, they will loose their appeal if there is a over supply. Yet, they are doing so with the upcoming j36, just with a twist.
I think trying new stuff is necessary, it would make more sense to keep an eye on the details that worked well. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by DeadHype

[karakum]

19 minutes ago, leg said:

I doubt it has anything to do with money because, as you can see for yourself, the new products aren't selling well either. Haven, which carried the acronym for more than a decade, making the decision not to carry ACR anymore is very telling. I think the problem is that Errolson gave too much creative power to the wrong people without setting clear guidelines and may have become less involved in the process himself, as he did with the last seasons of Shadow Project. I'm not saying that his tastes haven't changed, but you should know your audience; even if you like wearing Balenciaga clown shoes, it doesn't mean that the people buying your jackets do. I'm 100% sure that if he had just taken the best items from the 2015-2017 season and simply re-released them as is at a reasonable price, people would be clearing the shelves. I still remember how buying a €1000 jacket with addition tape, allowing you to hide the logo, was a mind-blowing idea – that's what Acronym is all about, not 3M logos on the back or spikes on the head. He could've just looked at Visvim and followed what Hiroki is doing because he's been doing the same thing for 20 years and is still doing great. Haven still carries it, and his items are still selling out without much of a problem, even though they're as expensive as ACR.

Creative people, be it painters, musicians or fashion designers, don't want to do the same for 20 years on end. They always have this inherent need for evolving their style and taste.

You see this field of tension everywhere: consumers of creative work like music fans have asked artists for making the same thing they did years ago again because some part of their fanbase liked it. A very good example is the band Gorillaz in my opinion.

To people who don't know their legacy and have only heard a single, older album for example their inherent style of change might not be apparent yet and so when they hear a new album they are appalled because it's not like that album they liked 15 years ago. Its the same discussion everytime they release an album. Same as every season here, and I think its just this barrier between creatives and consumers of creative work. The former want to evolve their style, make new work and avoid creative stasis. But the latter want more of the same because that's what they enjoy consuming and in the end, you can't blame either one of them.

Add to that, that a large part of ACR's customers arent part of this vocal minority that we are here on SuFu or Instagram or Discord and it becomes even less clear what "the customers" actually want. And since we never truly know the amount of produced pieces it is tough to say when something is selling well or not. A P38-E that may have 15 pcs per size will obviously sell out instantly, but when a P15-DS that gets 60 pcs per size doesn't sell out that doesn't it sold well, it still might have sold 3-fold what the P38-E sold.

Edited November 20, 2023 by karakum

[leg]

6 hours ago, karakum said:

Add to that, that a large part of ACR's customers arent part of this vocal minority that we are here on SuFu or Instagram or Discord and it becomes even less clear what "the customers" actually want.

Those people are the core customers; if you respect them, they will stick with the brand and feed your hand forever. The other customers don't care; they may be into techwear today and gorpcore a year later. That's exactly what happened with all that #acrhive shit. Errolson thought this would last forever, hence increasing prices and quantities, but in reality, nobody cares about techwear anymore. But here we are, the SuFu still talking about it years later, and the other customers you're referring to moved on a long time ago and won't ever come back.

[DeadHype]

The thing is, can you operate acronym at the current scale just from the OG heads? 

Edited November 20, 2023 by DeadHype

[XLARGE]

I understand some people that are into the brand for decades are not feeling everything lately.
But I also do think for a lot of people it is important that the stuff is exclusive and hard to get.
I buy Acronym for a few years, but only a few items here and there.
I never was into the styles that were super slim fit and pants with a super low crotch.
Therefore the pants from the last few seasons were perfect to me, like the P44 and P46.
Also the wider versions of the J1's are way better for me then older fits.
The V91 and J91 are on daily roatation aswell and the Hoodies lately are nice, like the S34 and S31.
I started skateboarding 1990 and being a teenager of the 90's I really like baggier stuff and I'm kind of big.
But I always liked the technical aspect and well thought ideas flowing into the garments.

What I'm trying to say is that people like me that don't look like the role model Acronym tech wear wearer are also liking the brand and the idea behind it, but rocking kind of a differnt style.

I especially dislike the fit pics of E rocking all this garbage high fashion shoes and jewellery.
I think that Kiddie girlfriend is the main reason for that, him being at fashion shows getting inspired from uncool brands.
I think E wants and trys to make Acronym bigger then it should be, and from what I see it's not working.
The stuff is to expensive for the average customer, retailers are sitting on the stuff and putting it on sale to get rid of it.

Get in where you fit in comes to mind.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by XLARGE

[nathan_]

 Heads up, monkey type time 😎

1 hour ago, XLARGE said:

I think E wants and trys to make Acronym bigger then it should be, and from what I see it's not working.

This right here.

Whether it's Hugh or whoever runs the brand now that he's living it up in Japanese strip clubs, kickin' it with Rod and flying between Paris & Korea every other month (not shitting on him, he built this success, he should enjoy it while he can), it's all about scale.

Talking about "artistic integrity" (lol), talking about OGs, talking about retailers, blah blah blah, get real lol.

Acronym tried scaling up production considerably and produced designs that lent themselves to scalability in what was offered to retailers and it simply did not work out very well (constant discounts, massive deadstock). You'd have to be too busy making out with that giant yellow poster of Hugh not to notice the dip in design quality.

There's no doubt in my mind that (especially since you can access their earnings through Germany's publicly accessible audits) is making more bank than ever, but with that scale comes disappointment fans, it's just a part of the growing pains, you can't please everyone & Acr is evidently trying to figure where they stand in all this. I'm sure we're in for a few more years of experimenting with marketing, community outreach, collaborative stuff, maybe a brick and mortar location, w/e. Brands always want to expand and we're witnessing that in real time here.

I'm not super keen on anything from next szn but I'm still excited to see what's coming beyond that and I do have to admit it's at least something new, surface level or not.

TL:DR capitalism, stop projecting.

 

[Dolphinski]

I just like that we get to have this same conversation every few years. Have we done the Johanna F Schneider bit yet?

[DeadHype]

Btw, any stotz pieces rumoured? 

[Ascoyne]

Not to forget they distribute through a new agency which probably also has its own interests.

3 hours ago, XLARGE said:

I especially dislike the fit pics of E rocking all this garbage high fashion shoes and jewellery.
I think that Kiddie girlfriend is the main reason for that, him being at fashion shows getting inspired from uncool brands.
I think E wants and trys to make Acronym bigger then it should be, and from what I see it's not working.

100% agree. No one should care about E's lifestyle though, but some images add a bitter feeling to Acronym's new style.

However, they seem to gave up on their no sale policy.

It's also interesting to witness that the probably strongest (from a "classic" Acronym pov) designs of each of the latest seasons are the ones that sell the slowest.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Ascoyne

[eidolarr]

8 hours ago, leg said:

He could've just looked at Visvim and followed what Hiroki is doing because he's been doing the same thing for 20 years and is still doing great. Haven still carries it, and his items are still selling out without much of a problem, even though they're as expensive as ACR.

Is visvim a fair comparison though? There will always be infinite appetite for nostalgic Americana with a narrative about quality craftsmanship behind it. OTOH, outside of techwear’s moment a few years ago, idk how much room there was to scale up production of the core pieces without blowing out market demand. Especially since in streetwear exclusivity is a concern.

Just dunno how viable the visvim “fill out your niche” strategy is for acronym, if they wanna grow they have to keep evolving. which seems to be what they’re trying to do, with um mixed results

edit also I know I’ve said this before but my sense is that keeping acronym prestigious is more valuable than cashing out rn. And as long as the core pieces are rare and sought after, they can release lots of duds trying to find the next hit, while always having the hooded j28 or the p24a in their back pocket when needed to drum up interest

Edited November 20, 2023 by eidolarr

[mariahscarry]

2 hours ago, Ascoyne said:

It's also interesting to witness that the probably strongest (from a "classic" Acronym pov) designs of each of the latest seasons are the ones that sell the slowest.

Yeah, because nobody wants to buy a fucking "The Next Generation" J28 with a $2,600 price tag!!!! Not to mention, the atrocious new subsystems and lack of proven old subsystems we loved so much. The fact that they literally abandoned the original 3D collar design for this stupid convertible collar on almost EVERY jacket design makes no sense at all. Sure, maybe throw the convertible collar and RainDrop subsystem on a new design. I won't buy it but then again....doesn't look like anyone else wants it either? But for them to have decided to throw it on something as coveted as the J28 is flat out mind blowing to me.

 

And again.....that price tag. I'm literally this close to pulling the trigger on a J28-WS on Grailed because I realized I can buy one cheaper than the retail price of the GT version on mothersite....

 

1 hour ago, eidolarr said:

if they wanna grow they have to keep evolving. 

And I strongly disagree with this take. Acronym has been "evolved" from the very inception of the brand. Nothing is "evolved" about some Hellraiser spikes LOFL.

[Ascoyne]

I wasn't referring to J28 and stuff, more to like new styles with a classic attitude like the J96, J103. They all are sitting while even the worst iteration of the P38 sells out within minutes.

[Flipflop214]

Acronym SuFu thread = free Customer  Focus Group for Acrnm.gmbh 

[brainerd666]

I’ll admit, I’m a bit old at this point and also fall prey to a bit of nostalgia from my youth clothing wise (I basically live in mil cargos nowadays), but E really has to let go of trying to ride the wave of mid/late 90’s rave/club gear. Shit was wack back then(and I was wearing it lol) and it still is. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by brainerd666

[alo1333]

IMO old acr still a THING

[eidolarr]

7 hours ago, mariahscarry said:

And I strongly disagree with this take. Acronym has been "evolved" from the very inception of the brand. Nothing is "evolved" about some Hellraiser spikes LOFL.

To clarify, I meant if he wants to be able to keep selling acronym at elevated prices, and to sell out even with the much increased production and stockists of today vs 2018, he needs to keep captivating the hypebeast crowd. since techwear’s moment in the sun is faded he needs to find something new to draw hype, to move volume. So he’s making bold moves that aren’t landing, with this crowd at least.

ofc I’m personally with you, I would much rather he stay niche, focus on the original vision and slow iteration, and sell smaller runs to the longtime fans. Like he was happy to do for 20 years. 🤷

[WillKhitie]

I think you call this a midlife crisis. 

[beepy]

The spikes are whatever. Actually can see the business logic that it gives them a broader appeal since they can work for the “cool guy future punk” aesthetic adjacent to acrnm and “archive” lil whoever people. Errolson wore some undercover spiked dress shoes in product shots years ago. That new j1 could pass as an undercover design, especially with those zippers.
He’s a designer, and at this point it looks like he’s doing what every other designer does and messing with aesthetics and ”staples”. But instead of different denim finishes and chesterfield coats it’s technical jackets and drop crotch pants.
You might not like this stuff, but 2025 could be completely different. Maybe you get a Akita jacket and red p10s. Or maybe it’s cyber dog.

[conqueror]

the exact same thing that happened with the vis fanbase a decade ago has finally dawned on the acronym fanbase. errolson (like hiroki) started out as a 'purist' designer; as the years have passed and their success/exposure increased, they have essentially become a capitalist at heart and a designer as a secondary function. nothing really wrong with this, but nerds on message boards won't be your primary concern when john mayer and his ilk can instantly fund your next vintage porsche by buying out your entire collection in one swoop.

the key difference between the two labels is visvim does/will always have significantly more long-term widespread appeal (both in niche fashion circles/subcultures + wealthy albeit uneducated mass-market clientele, noting the pricing for both prevent true mainstream saturation) than acronym based on their visual identity, garment patterns, and materials used; particularly in terms of crossover with more 'senior' and/or female consumers. this is why someone like errolson can't really afford to disregard his diehard followers entirely like hiroki can; they provide a crucial financial buffer as the height of acronym's popularity gradually fades away (noting the peak has already been reached and arguably occurred two years ago).

Edited November 21, 2023 by conqueror

[keynezk]

Well, what I heard, Haven didn't quit. Haven was cancelled.

[DeadHype]

Speaking of that, would be cool to see a new 3a-9ts

Edited November 21, 2023 by DeadHype

[mariahscarry]

4 hours ago, conqueror said:

(noting the peak has already been reached and arguably occurred two years ago).

Peak acr was fw21? lol