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Sugar Cane Denim

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@Foxy2 What are the ones second from the right? Never seen any that look that orange…

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The far left look like the standard persimmon

I have a slew of fabrics & papers dyed with kakishibu, and none of them are that orange (unless the light is playing tricks, as it does…)

Edited by julian-wolf

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There are a couple of colour codes floating around for the SC40302:

-312 (mud)

-332 (dry grass)

-337 (persimmon)

-342 (green tea)

I’ve also seen additional codes like:

-021 (persimmon)

-092 (green/grass)

but I’m not sure that those last 2 codes are correct.

my guess would also be persimmon, but I’ll try to take proper pics in a decent light over the next few days.

Edited by Foxy2

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What’s  the color of the arcs on the 1st 2 from left ... are they green, as well?

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On 8/8/2020 at 3:59 PM, kiya said:

What is with the SE measurement dislike here?  We measure everything in-house and re-measure a product if we get a new production run in from the manufacturer.  We also state how the measurements are taken on our site, which is a fairly standard way of measuring things at tailors in the US (I do understand that in Japan some measure the waist differently).  Outside of this if we feel that we're getting more returns than usual on a particular product we make sure to remeasure and update the size chart for that product to make sure it's correct.  It's literally everything we can do to get our clients the most accurate measurements. 

 

Not trying to take away from this post or bash on anyone, maybe this belongs somewhere else, but almost everything I get from SE the measurements don’t match what is on your website. The Leroy’s that just came out are sz 32 measured on your webpage as 34. They actually measure 32”

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8 minutes ago, heyson said:

Not trying to take away from this post or bash on anyone, maybe this belongs somewhere else, but almost everything I get from SE the measurements don’t match what is on your website. The Leroy’s that just came out are sz 32 measured on your webpage as 34. They actually measure 32”

if that's the case, you can always reach out and we always work with you if the measurements are that off. are you measuring the waistband completely flat and getting a 32"? 

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5 minutes ago, youngofthesoonest said:

if that's the case, you can always reach out and we always work with you if the measurements are that off. are you measuring the waistband completely flat and getting a 32"? 

If I really flatten it and stretch it down I measure 16.5. I appreciate the help I have gotten from you guys in the past. I guess it’s just a matter of buying jeans online really

I want to order the Edo’s so maybe I’ll be inquiring more measurements soon

 

Edited by heyson

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2 minutes ago, heyson said:

If I really flatten it and stretch it down I measure 16.5. I appreciate the help I have gotten from you guys in the past. I guess it’s just a matter of buying jeans online really

I want to order the Edo’s so maybe I’ll be inquiring more measurements soon

 

yeah, we flatten it as much as possible and remove any slack on the waistband to get the measurement so it's still measuring 1" small, you should let us know and send it back to the SF store. Definitely let us know if you need us to measure a pair of the Edo jeans for you too. 

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@youngofthesoonest dude I can’t send the Leroy’s back! Haha even if they are a bit small. I will definitely reach out for help with the SC’s. Thank you man I appreciate it

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2 hours ago, julian-wolf said:

The far left look like the standard persimmon

I have a slew of fabrics & papers dyed with kakishibu, and none of them are that orange (unless the light is playing tricks, as it does…)

It was late afternoon sunlight when I took the pics - I’ll post more pics with other SC persimmon denim.

the only persimmon denim that came out strange was the second special release by Samurai, but I’ve only seen it in pictures...

2 hours ago, BrownMetallic said:

What’s  the color of the arcs on the 1st 2 from left ... are they green, as well?

These are in yellow/brown, all other colour ways (that I have) sport green threads.

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@youngofthesoonest if you’re pulling the waistband tight to remove all slack for your measurements maybe that’s what’s causing confusion? The How We Measure page on the SE site showed measurements being taken with the waistband lying naturally, front and back misaligned, which would always give a smaller number as compared to the standard method

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@Foxy2 Okay, the greys & persimmons have the bright green arcs ... so,  the 1st 2 could be the other colorways ... mud-dyed, green tea, etc.

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10 minutes ago, julian-wolf said:

@youngofthesoonest if you’re pulling the waistband tight to remove all slack for your measurements maybe that’s what’s causing confusion? The How We Measure page on the SE site showed measurements being taken with the waistband lying naturally, front and back misaligned, which would always give a smaller number as compared to the standard method

ok that's fair. We always figured people would pull it tight to get the true measurement esp since we deal with so much of the heavier stiffer denim that if you let it lay naturally, it'd be in the shape of a circle haha but that's good feedback. we'll retake the photos to make it more clear!

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Yeah, makes sense re: heavier denims not laying flat no matter what. For what it’s worth, I don’t think the method currently pictured is totally without merit—for higher-rise jeans in particular, measuring across just the back of the waistband will generally give a number that’s closer to the natural waist of the wearer, which could be especially useful for first-time customers. I keep track of both measurements for most of my collection. I guess that’s why I never questioned, in the past, whether those photos might be unintentionally misleading on your site—always figured it was a conscious decision.

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1 hour ago, BrownMetallic said:

@Foxy2 Okay, the greys & persimmons have the bright green arcs ... so,  the 1st 2 could be the other colorways ... mud-dyed, green tea, etc.

I don’t have any of the old catalogs or a good scan.
my guess:

1 & 2 - dry grass

3 - persimmon 

4 - green tea 

ADA338A3-7F0A-48AC-A4E9-9E73086854B3.jpeg.7f5675246b0e7703f7f7a5adcdf52c6c.jpeg

the mud colour way appears to be darker than green tea in the bad catalog scans I’ve seen.

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Wait, are those numbers left to right?! I’ve had that wrong this whole time; I always thought the grey (4) was mud and the green (2) was tea…shows what I know

Meanwhile, yeah, as mentioned above the only other persimmon jeans I’ve seen come out that orange are the heavyweight Samurais from a few years ago—makes me wonder if the lot 302 I bought and sold a couple years ago were actually dried grass, or whether they were just a different run—I’ll have to look back at the photos later today

The brown ones you have listed as dried grass (1) look much more similar to the persimmon lot 285, and to other 100% cotton persimmon-dyed fabrics that Nihon Menpu has put out in the past…go figure

Edited by julian-wolf

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I’ll get a proper camera out tomorrow and put them next to other SC persimmons.

if anybody has a good scan of the natural dyes for that model from an early catalog we might be able to verify which colour way used non-green threads...

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damn, this is seriously a treasure trove of rare sugar cane jeans that I haven't seen in a very long time. some of them I've never seen in person! Thanks for the photos @Foxy2

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I'm gonna put this here so I can say "I called it" ten years later...

Out of all the Japanese denim brands Sugar Cane is going to be the one where the rare and early models end up going for big money down the line.  No brand from Japan has really shown us that their older products are worth much more than retail, but it think that may change over the next few years with Sugar Cane leading the pack.  

The idea of the fashion "archive" may leak into Japanese denim and Sugar Cane's system of putting out new models in limited numbers which are still somewhat similar to the rest of their line is primed for collectability. 

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^ an excerpt from 00’s treatise on “Denim as Currency”, ca. 2020

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1 hour ago, kiya said:

I'm gonna put this here so I can say "I called it" ten years later...

Out of all the Japanese denim brands Sugar Cane is going to be the one where the rare and early models end up going for big money down the line.  No brand from Japan has really shown us that their older products are worth much more than retail, but it think that may change over the next few years with Sugar Cane leading the pack.  

The idea of the fashion "archive" may leak into Japanese denim and Sugar Cane's system of putting out new models in limited numbers which are still somewhat similar to the rest of their line is primed for collectability. 

I totally agree. And to tack onto this, no other brand has shown such a breadth of mastery of fabrics, dyes, fits and ingenuity over the life of the brand. It's truly incredible to see what they brought to the table era after era. 

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8 hours ago, kiya said:

I'm gonna put this here so I can say "I called it" ten years later...

Out of all the Japanese denim brands Sugar Cane is going to be the one where the rare and early models end up going for big money down the line.  No brand from Japan has really shown us that their older products are worth much more than retail, but it think that may change over the next few years with Sugar Cane leading the pack.  

The idea of the fashion "archive" may leak into Japanese denim and Sugar Cane's system of putting out new models in limited numbers which are still somewhat similar to the rest of their line is primed for collectability. 

Have a look at what old Denime jeans from Orizzonti and Shins era go for on the market and that already since Hayashi-san left Denime.

You constantly see 6-figures asking prices on Yahoo for deadstock pairs (not that many would pay that) but for a deadstock pair of XX, 66XX or the special models you have to pay well over retail.

So yeah this is already a thing and I agree with Sugarcane it's the same. 

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Warehouse too, the anniversary pairs were fetching 40-60,000¥ 8yrs ago.. probably more nowadays, not to mention the sub-brands 

I watched 2 pairs of deadstock Western River W501XX sell on Yahoo back in 2016, the size 27 sold for 76k and the size 29 sold for 90k...

 

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Ive been thinking about repro arcs recently.. as vintage Levi's move ever further away from my price bracket into the realms of nouveau riche bragging tokens and in the meantime LVC become increasingly shite what am i actually trying to emulate by picking arcs?.. i appreciate that some WH arcs are primed for the picking and look terrible in their own right but to pick something like Deer Hunters, Ground Alls, ect ect i would now consider sacrelegious, they're as lovely in their own right as a collectable pair of rare Japanese denim as what you're/they're trying to imitate.

Edited by Double 0 Soul

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I get the Warehouse arc thing - an easy cheat I suppose - but other than that I’ve never really understood the arc thing. I totally agree Neal, jeans are made for what they are and any peculiarities they have define them. 

Maybe in time rare Japanese denim will become more valuable than what inspired them ... from a quality point of view they’re a great option

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If you're picking the arcs to fool yourself that's fair enough but nobody in the real world is going to think that you're walking down the street wearing 12 grands worth of vintage Levi's, 99% of peeps who see the Levi-esque arcs would assume you're wearing highstreet Levi's or LVC ...so you buy high quality made in Japan denim and pick the arcs to make them look like low quality made in Turkey denim :D

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