Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[Flash]

Welcome to fucking sufu

[itsbenhere]

No one who has commented works for a denim store (other than kiya and danny), it's just huge fans of the culture and products who feel for people who are truly passionate about it like they are (and not for a company that merely sees it as a business opportunity).

 

To me the absolute best example of value is parties. Like, I'm obsessed with flat head (no shit) and I was able to meet Kobayashi-san (TWICE!) and his team and have him sign my stuff, and ask questions, etc, all because Self Edge LA existed and they had a reason to come to LA and hold an event where like-minded people could gather.

 

If the denimio's of the world prevail, then that'll never happen for me again, and that sucks. It'll be impossible to feel the stuff in person, and talk about it with others. Shopping exclusively online sucks, and self edge makes it fun, and that has a value. Obviously for those that live far away, that value is diminished, and kiya etc. have to make up for it by offering stellar advice and service.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Come to Berlin on June 30th and you can meet him a third time

[edmond]

Fuck you no one wants you here you lurker go to hell get butt fucked or watever your comment is not welcome go back being a lurker. Have a done a half a million dollrs worth of investment for denim? And try to sell them for a profit to make a living? If no shut the fuck up

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Honest question for you Ed:

What made you opening a denim store in this day and age?

 

The competition from the online shops was already strong; shops like Denimio and OD were already operating when you opened Signet.

[Cold Summer]

I'll always go out of the way to support my local stores if I can, because I have so much trouble with sizing virtually everything that it's always worth whatever extra price to be able to try it on. It's much trickier if there's nothing available where you live, and you're going to have to order online anyway.

 

The biggest problem I encounter is just selection, for example Chrome Yellow carries 3Sixteen but oftentimes not the item that I want to buy. But when you're dealing with a small store it's probably inevitable.

[edmond]

Serious answer . We want to try. And i can get my own jeans for wholesale price. And yeah i think its time

[OptimusPrime]

Fuck you no one wants you here you lurker go to hell get butt fucked or watever your comment is not welcome go back being a lurker. Have a done a half a million dollrs worth of investment for denim? And try to sell them for a profit to make a living? If no shut the fuck up

 

What a class act.

I keep seeing people on this forum call him a nice guy, contributed a lot etc. and this is what you get.

People continue to tolerate this sort of behavior from this dude for some reason, maybe he's fun to watch because he's a bit of a clown? Or is he more of a bully?

Is he allowed to get away with this sort of behavior because he's a forum sponsor?

Let's not forget this guy can be shady as hell, comes and goes as he pleases, eg. the Flat Head x RJB Signet collab/contest.

[stadsvandringar]

Sort of on/off topic, but one way the B&M stores in Japan are able to get and maintain customers is through in-store events, some of which have already been mentioned (like flat head at SE). One thing I haven't seen outside of Japan very much though, maybe with the exception of Visvim, is seasonal pre-order events. That is, the brand brings samples of the next collection six months or so it's released to a particular store (they often tour around to the different cities in Japan) and people can take a look, try it on and order it if it works for them. I would think some of the denim shops could benefit from that sort of thing, assuming the brands would be into the idea, it's feasible cost-wise and that sort of thing. It's a good way to avoid the internet somewhat and develop closer brand-store-customer relations.

[edmond]

Well i am megatron i will kill you prime i will!!!

[Flash]

What is shady about Ed ? Don't remember him taking deposits for the contest or asking for pre-orders

Ed is just ed ... I like him so do other people , you don't have to but that's your choice mate

[Cold Summer]

The pre-order thing is a great idea, but the logistics are tough, when I worked at Flat Head we were constantly shipping around these huge containers filled with samples. It's not too expensive inside Japan but the cost (and possible expenses related to taxes/tariffs/etc.) could make it very hard to do with overseas retailers.

 

On the other hand, I think this would be a great idea for domestic brands, eg. Rogue Territory, N&F, 3Sixteen, etc. in the US and Canada.

[Babyson]

Sort of on/off topic, but one way the B&M stores in Japan are able to get and maintain customers is through in-store events, some of which have already been mentioned (like flat head at SE). One thing I haven't seen outside of Japan very much though, maybe with the exception of Visvim, is seasonal pre-order events. That is, the brand brings samples of the next collection six months or so it's released to a particular store (they often tour around to the different cities in Japan) and people can take a look, try it on and order it if it works for them. I would think some of the denim shops could benefit from that sort of thing, assuming the brands would be into the idea, it's feasible cost-wise and that sort of thing. It's a good way to avoid the internet somewhat and develop closer brand-store-customer relations.

 

It's not just in-store events either.  Denimio has been killing it lately with the contests and collabs.  Its pretty insane. Their community outreach and presence is whats really winning over customers.  They do instagram picture contests, contests between brands, fade contests, make sick collabs like the 710DMO, etc.  Its not only the price; I bought the DMOs and had no intention of wearing them anytime soon and they definitely werent cheap.

[OptimusPrime]

What is shady about Ed ? Don't remember him taking deposits for the contest or asking for pre-orders

Ed is just ed ... I like him so do other people , you don't have to but that's your choice mate

 

This is exactly what I meant, this guy gets away with saying things that no one else can.

If it was anyone else, the post would have been neg repped to no end.

Did I say he took our deposits and ran?

You like him and it's your choice, make sure you buy your denim needs through him while you are at it mate.

[Flash]

You said he was shady ?? Why ?

If he carried something I wanted I'd have no problem buying from him

There I gave you a rep .. cheer up

[edmond]

I am megatron!!! Optimus prime you are dead !

[OptimusPrime]

Maybe shady is not the most accurate word to use?
He created a buzz and left a lot of interested users hanging, I expected better than that, that's all.
I also gave you a rep, calm down now

[Flash]

I'm cool as a cucumber mate , you just decided to spit the dummy out

[OptimusPrime]

ed, will you just calm down?

We all know how the story ends, megatron will never win...

[Niro]

[FeloniousMonk]

Soooo shifting topics somewhat, but talking about those cost frictions for brick-and-mortar stores.

 

Kiya, or any of the other US denim makers/sellers on this forum:

Have you looked into how the Trans-Pacific Partnership would change your costs if it's passed and goes into effect? It looks like textile tariffs between the US and Japan would change, possibly by a lot, which should certainly make Japanese-milled fabric cheaper for any US jeans makers. But I don't know if there's a change in the tariffs for finished garments somewhere in the agreement or how much impact it would really have.

 

Just curious, and the thread suggested that this could be a respectable part of the cost difference between Japanese retail and US retail for the same jeans. I.e. it's not just $5 of tariffs in the price of jeans that are $300 in the US and $220 in Japan...

[Maynard Friedman]

As a minimum you also have to factor in additional transport/logistics/handling costs to get those jeans from Japan to the US plus currency exchange costs. There may be additional local taxes too.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Maynard Friedman

[Broark]

Damn, some of y'all need to step away from the keyboard and grab a drink.

There's nothing sketchy about Ed, I have a pair of FC jeans he organized for the forum and they're great.

Kiya is a really nice dude, I don't like when people try and take pot shots. Unwarranted ones at that.

Take your money where you want, that's how you make your vote.

And if you don't like it go back to reddit.

[dwilson123]

IMO, if you need rules changed and lobbying done for your business to stay profitable and relevant that means you either have a flawed business strategy or someone has simply found a better way of doing the business you're doing.  I hate it when giant telecom companies lobby the US Government to stay relevant and I have the same feeling about even small companies like retailers who carry Japanese brands strong arming those brands because someone has found a better way of selling their products.  The market should be open to competition.  Let the people buying decide what they value.

[setterman]

Honest question for you Ed:

What made you opening a denim store in this day and age?

 

The competition from the online shops was already strong; shops like Denimio and OD were already operating when you opened Signet.

 

Same reason SE has expanded to multiple stores, and other new shops have joined the fray in the US.  You have a shop in an area with a large enough population and foot traffic, you'll make up for sales lost to online only stores.    

[Maynard Friedman]

It is relevant if there are tariffs and/or subsidies on the other side, such as the Chinese offloading cheap steel to the UK, possibly at prices below cost to drive that industry out of business. The next thing, you're dependent on those imports (as you have no comparable industry of your own) and, surprise, surprise, the prices have now increased.

I'm not saying that's valid in this case but in some cases it certainly is.

[OptimusPrime]

It's not rocket science.  If you go into a store and try something on and like it, or you pester that store online or via email with questions about a product, you buy from them.  If you know what you want through online research and comparison, buy from whomever you're comfortable doing business with.  

 

Every business faces competition from online vendors, no reason premium denim will be any different.  That's why (at least in the US) those that open store fronts to sell premium denim do so in areas with hundreds of thousands to millions of potential customers within a 30 mile circle of them to draw from.  If you can't run a niche business in a market of that size, it's time to rethink your business model or the product you're selling.   

 

I think setterman has hit the nail on the head in his post.

 

Both forms of retail have their places in the market and should be able to co-exist peacefully.

There will always be customers that want to try on before they buy and there will be those that know what they want.

These online stores plus the Rakuten shops are Japanese companies selling Japanese products.

They may be late to selling in the international market but does that mean they don't have the right to take part in this business?

If you take into account that most of them have to overcome the language barrier in order to operate the business, you'd see running an online business has its challenges too and how valuable they are to the consumers.

Yet all I see is these American retailers trying to stop them from doing so.

If the situation were reversed, wouldn't they try to get a piece of the action too?

White's and Wesco boots sell for a ton of money per pair in Japan, why not sell them direct to Japan at the US retail plus free shipping if you can?

 

Every time I see these so called B&M stores try something to hinder my purchase options as a consumer, I feel like supporting their competition even more.

Consumers are savvy in this day and age, but there is nothing new in trying to shop around.

[Maynard Friedman]

I'm not sure how they're hindering your purchase options - how are they stopping you buying directly from Japan?

I think some brands have tried this (e.g. Real McCoy) but any savvy internet shopper knows there are ways around this.

The B&M stores are generally also online stores so if anything they are embracing the opportunities of additional delivery channels. For me, living in the UK, Self Edge may as well only be an online shop and it has made that option very easy for me.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Maynard Friedman

[dwilson123]

I'm not sure how they're hindering your purchase options - how are they stopping you buying directly from Japan?

I think some brands have tried this (e.g. Real McCoy) but any savvy internet shopper knows there are ways around this.

The B&M stores are generally also online stores so if anything they are embracing the opportunities of additional delivery channels. For me, living in the UK, Self Edge may as well only be an online shop and it has made that option very easy for me.

 

I think the issue is "Where does it end?"  If you're fine and dandy conceding Denimio because they make no bones about their overseas shipping strategy why is the line drawn at buying directly from Klax-On or another Japanese retailer on Rakuten?

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Same reason SE has expanded to multiple stores, and other new shops have joined the fray in the US.  You have a shop in an area with a large enough population and foot traffic, you'll make up for sales lost to online only stores.    

 

If this would be the entire case, there wouldn't have been a reason for Ed/Signet to complain about Denimio selling Full Count at Japanese retail with free shipping. And Full Count reacted and thus prices at Denimio went up for Full Count. And apparently Kiya knows more when he already said that Full Count won't supply Denimio anymore.

 

So Signet was hurting significantly. And hence my question about why he opened up a store in the first place. An ass hole could say "Well, Ed...you were too late and didn't make a good business plan and now you complain because you fucked it up."