Levi's Vintage Clothing

[colgems1966]

well i haven't bought a new pair of LVC in a year or more. previous to this i bought at least a dozen pair. what finished me was 1) the last price hike 2) the weird sizing games they play. just when you think you've got the size down they change it again. no thanks to a 2" over tag 1955 501. 3) the limited u.s. availability. i also wasn't too impressed with the interview i read of the new man in charge. "we're making poetry" (or something to that effect) come on! they're jeans man. more than a little pretentious. Levis to me shouldn't be about snob-appeal it runs contrary to what's left of the company's DNA. i don't know about others but i bought LVC because i appreciate the history and want a quality well made jean. i figure i'd rather go $180 (old prices) on a 501 i can be proud of, that fits and will last than $40 on cheap looking, egyptian made, ill-fitting potato sack. i'm not trying to be in, hip or cool i just want a quality 501 like i wore as a kid. i don't wear designer jeans. i wear 3 brands Levis, Lee and Wrangler. i got into this game buying true vintage, repros were scarce then and that's where i have returned. if i buy LVC it's used, i won't pay these current prices. and there is still vintage bargains to be had if you look. *****sorry for the rant but it should not be this much trouble, expense and size guessing to buying a pair of u.s. made selvage 501's. it's blasphemy

[dr.house]

well i haven't bought a new pair of LVC in a year or more. previous to this i bought at least a dozen pair. what finished me was 1) the last price hike 2) the weird sizing games they play. just when you think you've got the size down they change it again. no thanks to a 2" over tag 1955 501. 3) the limited u.s. availability. i also wasn't too impressed with the interview i read of the new man in charge. "we're making poetry" (or something to that effect) come on! they're jeans man. more than a little pretentious. Levis to me shouldn't be about snob-appeal it runs contrary to what's left of the company's DNA. i don't know about others but i bought LVC because i appreciate the history and want a quality well made jean. i figure i'd rather go $180 (old prices) on a 501 i can be proud of, that fits and will last than $40 on cheap looking, egyptian made, ill-fitting potato sack. i'm not trying to be in, hip or cool i just want a quality 501 like i wore as a kid. i don't wear designer jeans. i wear 3 brands Levis, Lee and Wrangler. i got into this game buying true vintage, repros were scarce then and that's where i have returned. if i buy LVC it's used, i won't pay these current prices. and there is still vintage bargains to be had if you look. *****sorry for the rant but it should not be this much trouble, expense and size guessing to buying a pair of u.s. made selvage 501's. it's blasphemy

I'm into LVC cuz' I prefer authenticity, and there is no other brand that's so close to the old originals (and I'm talking about jeans and other clothes as well). But hey, you can trustfully buy a pair of (american made) Sugar Canes like the 47s, 55s or 66 models. They're also pretty accurate repros, high end finished and made of awesome denim. Price range is below LVC meanwhile.

[fardin]

i second colgems, i thought it was very disapointing reading the interview with maurizio donadi. its clear that he is not really looking to produce accurate models. and i cant understand that there isnt an lvc page to see the collection, specially now that they are producing more and more other stuff then just denim. and your right there are to many distressed models. on the other side there are now lvc stores opening, so thats a nice change, maybe they carry the whole range. still i think that mr donadis aproach is a bit esoteric and not historic, and isnt that what lvc is all about ? why is it possible for lee to produce historic models without all this bla bla? levis should have given lvc to japan and not to some italian guy that worked for armani benetton or diesel. allthough i remember an interview some month ago with lynn saying that they spend a lot of time in the archives for research.

[dr.house]

I don't see anything wrong in Maurizio Donadis philosophy. LVC is the collectors item of the future. Exactly this point came to my mind as I bought my first pair. I couldn't find anything in the interview about not being accurate to the historical items...More than that: "We look at fabrics and washes with a microscope."

Levis made and crafted is another interpretation (and another thread). Talking LVC we've gotta wait for the promised blog which means all of us can have more or less influence of what LVC might be in the future.

[Dr_Heech]

We've been through this several times before.

Reproduction of raw Levis jeans (501's in particular).

Despite some folks at Lvc still having a passion for the originals, the minute the Valencia street factory closed (and later the San Antonio factory) the 'accuracy' became more diluted as there are fewer people with the knowledge worked in the places where these garments were being made.

Some Valencia street produced models were inaccurate (or just rubbish) but most weren't.

This has changed since 2003, and certainly much worse since 2007.

There are few accurate Lvc raw's left

Apart from the 1880 knappave's (probably), the 20's 201's, the 33's and the 55's the rest of the current line-up are mere shadows of the originals.

Collectors items of the future...Hahaha!

Shame.

.

[colgems1966]

i just don't understand them. Levis is unique with just a few other companies in having a deep heritage to draw from. i took a look at the made & crafted link a member posted. nice stuff but it might as well have been RRL or old navy for that matter. everybody is doing "vintage inspired" workwear these days. Levis is one of a few companies who could say "here is a repro of our 1953 501xx" and have it be as close as possible to an original. Japanese companies pull this off with ease, look at Lee japan i have the 37,42,44,&52 101's they're all better made and IMO more accurate than their Levis counterparts. they are very difficult to tell from the originals (esp the 44's) it shouldn't be so difficult. produce an accurate raw line, keep the sizes consistent, and have a website showing the models, features & details and where to buy them. also Levis probably has enough customers and market share to get the economies of scale to push the price down to $150 for raw denim, which i think is a fair price. at that price point i believe people would buy more and you would draw in more on the fence buyers and people willing to try them out.

[dr.house]

Collectors items of the future...Hahaha!

Shame.

.

No shame. Why do many ppl want a 555 stamped 501 necessarily?

Let's talk about this in let's say 10 years...

I don't think there is any interest at Levis to sell their heritage line to the masses, they know best that there are only a handful of customers (like us) around the world (who are willing to pay their prices).

[Dr_Heech]

i just don't understand them. Levis is unique with just a few other companies in having a deep heritage to draw from. i took a look at the made & crafted link a member posted. nice stuff but it might as well have been RRL or old navy for that matter. everybody is doing "vintage inspired" workwear these days. Levis is one of a few companies who could say "here is a repro of our 1953 501xx" and have it be as close as possible to an original. Japanese companies pull this off with ease, look at Lee japan i have the 37,42,44,&52 101's they're all better made and IMO more accurate than their Levis counterparts. they are very difficult to tell from the originals (esp the 44's) it shouldn't be so difficult. produce an accurate raw line, keep the sizes consistent, and have a website showing the models, features & details and where to buy them. also Levis probably has enough customers and market share to get the economies of scale to push the price down to $150 for raw denim, which i think is a fair price. at that price point i believe people would buy more and you would draw in more on the fence buyers and people willing to try them out.

The bottom line is that Levis are a business and want to make money.

Look at the years of sizing errors, it's just there to make you buy three or four pairs, until you get the fit you want.

Lvc, engineered, signature, made and crafted...it doesn't matter, they all allude to the originals (even Lvc has become a byword for 'inspired by..' as accuracy becomes less important).

At least Sugarcane, flathead and warehouse, which although are not accurate (for legal reasons amongst others) also allude to originals.

But features such as pocket-bag fabric, thick copper rivets, polycore, rather than polycotton like on Lvc, are features Lvc cant even be bothered to attempt.

But I 100% agree on lee being head and shoulders above levis, just a shame they aren't allowed to put the early (levi's type) arcs on their pre-44 models.

.

[Dr_Heech]

No shame. Why do many ppl want a 555 stamped 501 necessarily?

Let's talk about this in let's say 10 years...

I don't think there is any interest at Levis to sell their heritage line to the masses, they know best that there are only a handful of customers (like us) around the world (who are willing to pay their prices).

If you have a pair of 555 55's and physically compare them to any other 55's from 2003 onwards, you will see for yourself.

I have a pair of 2010 cone 55's, and some of the details are just plain amateur compared to the 555's (and I'm not just talking about the denim)

In 10 years time there will be even fewer people (like us) interested in Lvc.

And by then it will be just another thriving second-hand market (which Levis cant tap into) as no-one is gonna pay more than the ridiculously crazy current prices!

.

[GregoryH]

anyone else excited about the spring '11 collection?

I'm drooling over that indigo vintage style sweatshirt...but having a hard time rationalizing the $159 price tag when I could buy a buzz rickson for the same price...

someone help me make up my mind!

[roy6]

I agree LVC has become diluted from what it once was. Recent disappointments like the drop in materials and inaccurate cut of the new Sunset shirt (I put up pics a while back) and the introduction of ambiguously labeled imaginary vintage pieces into the main line (last season- the hunting jacket, shawl collar coat, shawl collar sweater, two leather buco jackets, a myriad of Ts, shirts, belts & bags) have watered down the old LVC mission statement of "producing exact replicas of historical garments from our archives".

I was beginning to think I would only be collecting pieces from 1996-2009, but there still seems to be one or two pieces in each season that I really like, like the 1912 Sunset henley which just showed up.

Now the only thing that sets LVC apart from other brands producing non-repro repros like RRL or Mr. Freedom is that occasionally LVC will put out an item which looks great and might or might not be an accurate historical repro. That and the generally lower quality and erratic sizing.

[Dr_Heech]

anyone else excited about the spring '11 collection?

I'm drooling over that indigo vintage style sweatshirt...but having a hard time rationalizing the $159 price tag when I could buy a buzz rickson for the same price...

someone help me make up my mind!

No problem GregoryH,

I've seen that sweat first hand. It's not worth half the asking price.

Buzz gives you 100% satisfaction guaranteed !

.

[tropicalbird]

If you have a pair of 555 55's and physically compare them to any other 55's from 2003 onwards, you will see for yourself.

I have a pair of 2010 cone 55's, and some of the details are just plain amateur compared to the 555's (and I'm not just talking about the denim)

Please specify or better yet pictures, since many of us don't have that kind of resources.

In 10 years time there will be even fewer people (like us) interested in Lvc.

And by then it will be just another thriving second-hand market (which Levis cant tap into) as no-one is gonna pay more than the ridiculously crazy current prices!

Will the world end in 10 years?

[Dr_Heech]

I agree LVC has become diluted from what it once was. Recent disappointments like the drop in materials and inaccurate cut of the new Sunset shirt (I put up pics a while back) and the introduction of ambiguously labeled imaginary vintage pieces into the main line (last season- the hunting jacket, shawl collar coat, shawl collar sweater, two leather buco jackets, a myriad of Ts, shirts, belts & bags) have watered down the old LVC mission statement of "producing exact replicas of historical garments from our archives".

I was beginning to think I would only be collecting pieces from 1996-2009, but there still seems to be one or two pieces in each season that I really like, like the 1912 Sunset henley which just showed up.

Now the only thing that sets LVC apart from other brands producing non-repro repros like RRL or Mr. Freedom is that occasionally LVC will put out an item which looks great and might or might not be an accurate historical repro. That and the generally lower quality and erratic sizing.

I think this is what Lvc relies on. Most of us in this thread have had a good Lvc experience, and I too 'like' the odd piece (including the aforementioned 2010 blue sweat), but when you see them/feel them in the flesh, and especially take in the price, they fall way short.

I noticed you have that S1 2010 leather jacket posted earlier, and remember you saying way back when it came out how you thought it was inferior, but you bought it anyway.

Now you'll probably keep it for a while (maybe wear it, maybe not) but eventually the little voices will say 'sell...sell' .

Your ruff'n'ready will never say that to you !!

.

[Paul T]

There have certainly been unforgiveable errors with LVC, that should be corrected. I think I differ somewhat from Dr H, though, in that I think there was some poor work a couple of years ago, and some great (but irritatingly inconsistent) product since then. The recent 1944 are better than ever. The duck items are a big improvement on the old LVC. Roy's cotton shirt doesn't have the nice detailing of the chambray - but actually the current chambray is pretty much the same I believe, with all the selvage detailing.

And my 555 1955 have incorrect yoke stitching, and a scrunched up pocket. The more recent ones from 2008/9 (that I've posted several times here) probably have better workmanship.

The only thing that really upsets me, personally, is the price rise. I think that upsets XX staff, too. At the new price, they need to get the details, rivets, stitching, pocket shape, right all the time, not just some of it.

As always, these things are subjective, and personal, I am sure I am not objective, but after the ROYs, I want to wear something from Warehouse for a year, my fave Japanese jeans alongside LVC. But after that I"m really looking forward to coming home to a pair of 1944 LVC.

[Dr_Heech]

Please specify or better yet pictures, since many of us don't have that kind of resources.

Haven't time at the mo, but will endeavour to sort something out when i get back from Oz in march. Or check back through this thread for some pre-'02/2004 comparisons.

.

[colgems1966]

anyone else excited about the spring '11 collection?

I'm drooling over that indigo vintage style sweatshirt...but having a hard time rationalizing the $159 price tag when I could buy a buzz rickson for the same price...

someone help me make up my mind!

given the choice. i'd go with the rickson. i've bought several BR pieces and while expensive; the quality and attention to detail is top notch.

[Dr_Heech]

@Paul

Sorry, my bad, I shouldn't rant on (where's electrum when you need him? jk)

Oh, and I forgot about the 44's.

Sorry to hear about your 555 55's btw.

.

[Paul T]

@Paul

Sorry, my bad, I shouldn't rant on (where's electrum when you need him? jk)

Oh, and I forgot about the 44's.

Sorry to hear about your 555 55's btw.

.

Actually, I love em, those kind of errors are quite authentic - have u checked out the nipper's 302?

I totally take your point. Affection, and disaffection, is a complex matter, I can totally understand why people feel disenchanted, even if I'm not. I still feel happy when I put on my duck jumper (even if I look like a twat in it)

[min2max]

Vintage + Authentic = Expensive. Be it a watch, a camera, a vehicule, a musical instrument..

Of course jeans are less complicated and expensive to reproduce than the above, but today hand crafted, made in usa, made in western europe, or made in japan is a luxury no matter the brand or item. There is a premium price to pay for that, and I don't see an opposite evolution in the future. Traditional factories and machinery such as loopwheelers and such are getting rare and are bound to dissapear completely… This is why prices are currently going up, that and inflation..

Also i don't think prices will be any cheaper in 10 years… its impossible to predict how popular LVC will be, but i think it's safe to say there will always be an interest in authentic levi's, since +100 years old models are still being reprod today, besides LVC will then become Vintage LVC !

As for pure authenticity issues, I'll leave that up to the experts…

[colgems1966]

authenticity is one thing, but a lot of what LVC wants you to pay for is marketing hype. esp. in recent years. i have no problem with the core line with exception of the sizing issues and recent price hike but a lot of their stuff has very questionable lineage and sometimes quality/ country of origin issues. it was never perfect but i liked where lvc was 10 yrs. ago better than now. sorry but i do not like the made & crafted line. others may feel different but i do not see the heritage or value. how is it any different from say RRL?

[colgems1966]

"how is it any different from say RRL" oh wait i forgot it's poetry. RRL is merely clothing.

[colgems1966]

btw whoever repped me, thank you.

[Maynard Friedman]

Made & Crafted is categorically not LVC and is intended to complement it, not replace it, so I don't understand the criticism. What's wrong with competing with companies like RRL too?

I love this thread, best on Sufu by a country mile imho.

I gave my 1915s an initial 60c wash and have worn them for a few days. They've stretched out nicely and are possibly the softest, most comfortable pair of jeans I own. This may be due to the lighter weight but I'm enjoying the Cone denim - first time I've worn it since the late 80s and my days of second-hand originals. Best of all, they only cost me 90€ with shipping!

[Shorty Long]

the 1915s is a great example of how LVC rocks it and shits the bed at the same time...

The work with Cone to produce this amazing denim...they get the cut right...many of the details...and then the fuck it up with a worthless cinch buckle and non-hammered rivets.

[colgems1966]

Made & Crafted is categorically not LVC and is intended to complement it, not replace it, so I don't understand the criticism. What's wrong with competing with companies like RRL too?

I love this thread, best on Sufu by a country mile imho.

I gave my 1915s an initial 60c wash and have worn them for a few days. They've stretched out nicely and are possibly the softest, most comfortable pair of jeans I own. This may be due to the lighter weight but I'm enjoying the Cone denim - first time I've worn it since the late 80s and my days of second-hand originals. Best of all, they only cost me 90€ with shipping!

well maybe it's me, but i see a blurring of the lines between LVC & made & crafted. also i see it as taking resources away from LVC. to me Levis has for years tried to be all things to all people. i wish they had focused more on their core business. personally i would have liked to seen them retire their historical lot #'s 501, 505 517 etc...for LVC use only and call the mass market offerings something else because i don't feel the mass market 501 is really a 501 at all when you look at the merits.

[jake431]

well maybe it's me, but i see a blurring of the lines between LVC & made & crafted. also i see it as taking resources away from LVC. to me Levis has for years tried to be all things to all people. i wish they had focused more on their core business. personally i would have liked to seen them retire their historical lot #'s 501, 505 517 etc...for LVC use only and call the mass market offerings something else because i don't feel the mass market 501 is really a 501 at all when you look at the merits.

Not sure I understand what you mean - were Levis to concentrate on their core business, LVC would cease to exist. Can you explain better?

[colgems1966]

core business = quality, u.s. made raw denim. it was the foundation of the company for well over 100 yrs. LVC may be an offshoot, but product wise it IS closest to their traditional offerings. levis has long dabbled in sportswear but the core businsee remained well into the 80's. now there are so many lines and variations it can't help but overwhelm their manpower and resources. for instance they have been trying to sell dockers for years but with no takers. although i thought they had something with the original cramerton cloth k-1's. i have a pair from 98' and they're great.

[BAerts]

Semi xpost:

Shots from the Imogene and Willie garage sale, yesterday.

LVC Samples

And my little score:

LVC Type III Sample

[roy6]

I think this is what Lvc relies on. Most of us in this thread have had a good Lvc experience, and I too 'like' the odd piece (including the aforementioned 2010 blue sweat), but when you see them/feel them in the flesh, and especially take in the price, they fall way short.

I noticed you have that S1 2010 leather jacket posted earlier, and remember you saying way back when it came out how you thought it was inferior, but you bought it anyway.

Now you'll probably keep it for a while (maybe wear it, maybe not) but eventually the little voices will say 'sell...sell' .

Your ruff'n'ready will never say that to you !!

.

I got the jacket for roughly 1/2 price on the Bay, so it was worth it just to have a complete collection. It isn't my favorite leather LVC. My standard uniform is dark jeans and a white T, so its nice for the jacket to have a little flair, you know? The 'Dryfarmed' is a kind of boring cut with almost generic vintage details, but the leather really does look great in person, though kind of yellowish and odd in pictures. You're right though- it doesn't compare favorably to the R'N'R.

I should also say that the new LVC strategy, of caring less about hard-core vintage enthusiasts and more about the upscale market, seems to be paying off for them. Unionmade had very brisk sales, I heard that Cinch did well, and I noticed that Barney's moved most of their stock before their sale.

Part of why I liked pre-Maurizio LVC was that they refused to conform to mainstream consumer preferences- jackets and shirts that were based on old, stretched out items that had a funky, decidedly non-modern fit. That could be irritating when you mis-sized, but when you happened to hit it just right it was pure gold. Post-Maurizio seems to be catering a lot more to modern tastes in fits. More convenience and less soul.