Levi's Vintage Clothing

[Flash]

except for the guys at the Bureau and me i dont think ive ever seen somebody else wearing LVC's or japanese denim in belfast

[LpotRs]

I havent posted in ages and had scaled down to one pair of 1967 505 non selvage and a pair of 1947s . Washed (1947s were hot soaked) them a week or so ago and the results are as follows . Both been worn on and off over the last 8-10 months , mostly the 505s to my work . Photos arent great but theres a bloody gale blowing in Belfast today so pics arent easy to take !

Do you mind if I ask how you date the 505's as '67? I have a similar pair with big E, selvage, v-stitch, #6 on the top brass-colour button, a Talon 42 zip, yellow and orange stitching and single stitch rear pockets, which leads me, through research on this site, to make them possibly 67's. Did the 505's do away with selvage in the 60's, possibly making mine earlier? Thanks in advance

[mikedbt5]

except for the guys at the Bureau and me i dont think ive ever seen somebody else wearing LVC's or japanese denim in belfast

I dont hang around the city centre too much now , would have boozed around the Spaniard , John Hewitt or Duke of York upto a year or two ago .If anywhere now it would be around my friends retro clothes shop - Bang in Church Lane or Mike Hunt at the In Shops . You are right , though I do see some people wearing Nudie selvage (usually Urban Outfitters staff) Once seen a guy wearing a pair of Lee cowboy 101bs and did a double take , didnt speak to him though . Cheers , Mike .

[mikedbt5]

Do you mind if I ask how you date the 505's as '67? I have a similar pair with big E, selvage, v-stitch, #6 on the top brass-colour button, a Talon 42 zip, yellow and orange stitching and single stitch rear pockets, which leads me, through research on this site, to make them possibly 67's. Did the 505's do away with selvage in the 60's, possibly making mine earlier? Thanks in advance

The jeans in the pic are Levi "products with roots" 1967 505 reproductions . The term 1967 really just refers to a generic jean from that era . However Levis did make selvage and non selvage 505s in the late 1960s and there probably was a crossover period . Paul T might be able to enlighten you further . Regards , Mike

[Flash]

was the guy wearing the 101b's chinese and realy small because its probibly my girlfriends brother,id call into mikes now and then

[mikedbt5]

was the guy wearing the 101b's chinese and realy small because its probibly my girlfriends brother,id call into mikes now and then

Cant remember if the guy was chinese or not . Mike is a mate , a really good guy , known him 4 or 5 years now . He picks up the odd piece of LVC or original big E , I have sold some stuff for / to him in the past .

[blacap]

lovin the color of my 47.

[dr.house]

lovin the color of my 47.

Yeah, amazing colour, but they can't beat the colour of my favourite jean, my 44's (and sorry for quoting myself guyz ):

You won't get it from this pic (50% wet), but they've got a real distinctive, greyish dark blue.

[Mifune]

Thickest denim I have ever held, wish I still had it so I could send a piece off to cone. The pocket bags were the same weight.

Mike,

Some of us wish you could have sent it to Cone too! And it is something a lot of us are curious about, the real weight of the denim used in the past.

Up until the early 1970s men wore tailored city clothes that were made from very heavy wool 16-20 ozs. worsted were the norm. The advent of lightweight worsted and flannel cloth is actually a pretty recent as the propagation of central heating in offices drove men to seek lighter cloth for their work day clothes. So, if city clothes were this heavy, how is it that work clothes, according to Levis, were made of such lightweight denim? It doesn’t make sense and your comment about this heavyweight cloth adds another poker into the fire, along with the testimony of some of us older guys who remember Levis jeans being much more robust.

Any insight into this is appreciated.

[Paul T]

Mike,

Some of us wish you could have sent it to Cone too! ...if city clothes were this heavy, how is it that work clothes, according to Levis, were made of such lightweight denim?....

Cone have records specifiying the weight of the denim. This was always a big deal; fabric and denim was specified by weight in the 1890s and 1910s as it is today.

There are issues around weight specs on very early fabric - I have been told there have been inaccuracies to do with linear-

/square yards for the very early jeans, which might have been more like 10oz than 9oz, as Levi's specify. But there are no, mythical, super-heavy Levi's that have been airbrushed out of history. THey were traditionally 12.5ox pre soak, 14oz after.

[Mifune]

Cone have records specifiying the weight of the denim. This was always a big deal; fabric and denim was specified by weight in the 1890s and 1910s as it is today.

There are issues around weight specs on very early fabric - I have been told there have been inaccuracies to do with linear-

/square yards for the very early jeans, which might have been more like 10oz than 9oz, as Levi's specify. But there are no, mythical, super-heavy Levi's that have been airbrushed out of history. THey were traditionally 12.5ox pre soak, 14oz after.

Hi Paul

It seems amazing when you think that work clothes in the UK and Europe in general, corderoy, covert cloth, cavalry twill and whipcords weighed in the 20-32 ozs+ range.

The denim Mike has described is from another brand. How heavy would you guess that denim you felt was Mike?

[Sansome1877]

Hi Paul

It seems amazing when you think that work clothes in the UK and Europe in general, corderoy, covert cloth, cavalry twill and whipcords weighed in the 20-32 ozs+ range.

The denim Mike has described is from another brand. How heavy would you guess that denim you felt was Mike?

Felt like canvas, Im trying to think of something I could compare it to. 14 oz ?

I will try and get ahold of the guy who bought it, i'll see if I could trade him something for a piece of it. Or maybe i'll try to track down another?

[Maynard Friedman]

Mike,

Some of us wish you could have sent it to Cone too! And it is something a lot of us are curious about, the real weight of the denim used in the past.

Up until the early 1970s men wore tailored city clothes that were made from very heavy wool 16-20 ozs. worsted were the norm. The advent of lightweight worsted and flannel cloth is actually a pretty recent as the propagation of central heating in offices drove men to seek lighter cloth for their work day clothes. So, if city clothes were this heavy, how is it that work clothes, according to Levis, were made of such lightweight denim? It doesn’t make sense and your comment about this heavyweight cloth adds another poker into the fire, along with the testimony of some of us older guys who remember Levis jeans being much more robust.

Any insight into this is appreciated.

If the jeans were intended to be worn as overalls, over normal clothes then presumably they wouldn't have needed to be so heavy. Not that I know anything but just a thought...

[Sansome1877]

If the jeans were intended to be worn as overalls, over normal clothes then presumably they wouldn't have needed to be so heavy. Not that I know anything but just a thought...

Something of interest 4 of the companies that competed with Levi, I have found some of the first pants made were a light weight 2 by one fabric. I have what I believe to be a pant by Levi that was made in early 1873, it also is made of a light weight 2 by one fabric.

[Shryke]

I've put some pictures of LVC A/W10 on our shop blog, not sure if you've seen any of this yet? I don't really follow the denim forum here.

http://atoo-online.blogspot.com/

[rnrswitch]

Something of interest 4 of the companies that competed with Levi, I have found some of the first pants made were a light weight 2 by one fabric. I have what I believe to be a pant by Levi that was made in early 1873, it also is made of a light weight 2 by one fabric. I have at any given time 30 to 40 pounds of 1870's and 80's denim. Any one want a little scrap?

You should not tempt people around here. You will get a million PMs and people will ask and ask and ask and never give.

[Shorty Long]

interesting...

I've put some pictures of LVC A/W10 on our shop blog, not sure if you've seen any of this yet? I don't really follow the denim forum here.

http://atoo-online.blogspot.com/

ACL has a story up about a new feature at the Levi Flagship in SF

http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2010/07/04/step-inside-the-levis-tailor-shop/#more-16182

I particularly enjoyed the comment about Pointer Brand...

[Sansome1877]

Something of interest 4 of the companies that competed with Levi, I have found some of the first pants made were a light weight 2 by one fabric. I have what I believe to be a pant by Levi that was made in early 1873, it also is made of a light weight 2 by one fabric /QUOTE]

Good advice Thanks

[roy6]

The Oldest Oldest? No, it has the patch on the right and the pre-2 horse patch (the original jean, that is). But I don't know about the watch pocket.

I've only seen the raised watch pocket on the Nevada workpant. Have you seen it on the XX?

I've re-read your early post, and it seems to reflect pretty much exactly what i thought was the case until the discovery of the jeans posted above, what they say are the ealriest XX, with the patch on the right.

Lynn could be wrong - one thing I would say is that she's very good at stating when she simply thinks something is the case, as opposed to knows it is the case.

Edit: Here's another photo of the Oldest Oldest, lifted from a book.

I have a feeling these jeans are in a recent Japanese book, does anyone have more photos?

I've been away a few days, and haven't had time to really read all of these posts, but if you still want more images of this jean I have some (back, front & lots of details) from a Japanese mag from the '90s. If you still want them, let me know and I can take better images for posting tomorrow.

[blacap]

Yeah, amazing colour, but they can't beat the colour of my favourite jean, my 44's (and sorry for quoting myself guyz ):

You won't get it from this pic (50% wet), but they've got a real distinctive, greyish dark blue.

Yea dr.house, i have a pair of 44 waiting for me as well... will compare the 47 & 44 by then.

[Goominim]

Definitely, roy6. Do you have a scanner?

[dr.house]

interesting...

ACL has a story up about a new feature at the Levi Flagship in SF

http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2010/07/04/step-inside-the-levis-tailor-shop/#more-16182

I particularly enjoyed the comment about Pointer Brand...

Thanks much Shorty Long. If only I knew how to get those nice cards :confused:

[Sansome1877]

I would like more pictures, the cinch strap on the left, that holds the buckle on, looks modified. Any close up pictures of the label, looks to be completely washed out. Must be enough to say it had the old patch and not the two hoarse brand patch. This would take it out of the late 80's. Sure would like to know the date on the ad that shows the start of the two hoarse brand. Sure would like to know the first time linen sewn was mentioned? I will scan the 1879 price list in a few days and post it, no mention of linen thread on that. Paul T's Denim book on page 22, is a 1908 catalog that says XX linen sewn, the standard for 30 years. Page 15 in Paul's book, the Guarantee ticket. Looks like the 35 years was added to 1873, notice that linen thread and Amoskeag denim are gone. Look at the Images of America book page 21, Amoskeag and linen thread are on this Guarantee ticket. The archive should be able to cross reference this one, looks like they have a few turn of the century catalogs. If these are the only things you had to go by, XX started in 1878. The 1879 price list suggests that Levi had one style of pant, center patch,denim pocket bags and a watch pocket on the waist band. XX stood for extra heavy denim and extra sizes. Nevada tool pocket pant could be the oldest XX. I think the tool pocket was intended for a single jack chisel, I have a 1870's chisel and it fits in the tool pocket pretty good. Most people were right handed so it makes sense that it would be on the left side.

[Sansome1877]

These miners wore thick wool pants under the jeans, think this might be why jeans were called overalls. I have a half pair of 1870's wool pants with a cinch. I will post it in a few days.

[Paul T]

Very interesting all of this.. you're making me revert back to my earlier thinking, which is that the 'Nevada' style predates the 'XX' style.

THis all revolves around that pair with the patch on the right that the archives dates as 1879. Will contact them.

Roy6, those are a different pair, the ones posted earlier were purchased in 2003 and according to Lynn D were produced around the same time as the original Nevada pair, pretty much the earliest0known Levi's. I do have more detail shots of these, will look out when I've made deadline.

Mike, did you get my last email? I think the previous one from you has gone missing. I have deadline to hit lunchtime (UK), but v happy to post the spring bottom pics tonight. YOu must be due a sleep?

[Mifune]

These miners wore thick wool pants under the jeans, think this might be why jeans were called overalls. I have a half pair of 1870's wool pants with a cinch. I will post it in a few days.

Thanks Mike. That would explain things for the overalls. But do you think the 40s and 50s jeans were made of such lightweight cloth as well...including brands other than Levis? Paul has assured us that from a Levis point of view the evidence is incontrovertible. What about other makers? Did the evolution from overalls to pants continue with the same light cloth?

[Sansome1877]

I know history but I'm probably the wrong person to ask about denim weight. I send samples, to Ralph at Cone denim. I'll let him figure out the weight.

[ethandesu]

Hey all - a random for you, with a motive. I have had this LVC jacket for a few years, but never seem to wear it as I should. Its probably been on my back a dozen times in 5 or more years, but I can never seem to give it up.

My challange to you all - Convince me to wear it, or help me to sell it. It's a size Large, made in the USA LVC Climate Sealed jacket. Washed black cotton, light enough for Sydney where I live most of the year round.

desu

[Maynard Friedman]

Thanks Mike. That would explain things for the overalls. But do you think the 40s and 50s jeans were made of such lightweight cloth as well...including brands other than Levis? Paul has assured us that from a Levis point of view the evidence is incontrovertible. What about other makers? Did the evolution from overalls to pants continue with the same light cloth?

Surely there are still 40s and 50s jeans in existence to provide irrefutable evidence.

[Sansome1877]

3 in the morning here. I need to check my mail. I don't want to distract you but I am going to send you a picture of a line up of 1870's Levi cinch straps. I count 5 different types of cinch straps. The first three types are all non riveted. I will send the picture before I go to bed. Tell me what time on tuesday you want to talk. I'll tell you how I know these dates. Friended you on face book.