Levi's Vintage Clothing

[Joseph Hill]

$200+ for jeans is one thing, but $200+ for a G'damn shirt is where I draw the line I don't care where it's made or what it's made of that's just ridiculous -- talk about a vulgar display of consumerism jthat cuts the cake...jeeez. What shirt are you talking about??

LVC Canvas Duck Closed Front Jumper Oki Ni 256$, Cultizm 239$ (minus a bit for those in the know).

[rnrswitch]

Selvedge is everywhere. There is even a show on HBO called, "How to make it in America," where the characters try to start a selvedge jean line. Not a bad show though, somewhat interesting.

It is always good to stumble into a nice conversation about consumerism.

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

@Paul T:

depending your jacket, was it part of the great fall 2003 collection?

I once owned it but even L seemed a bit small for me, I´m 6´1" at 37pounds...

always thought it was made by scottish aeroleather company...

I wish I never had given it away for it´s such a great piece

[jake431]

Selvedge is everywhere. There is even a show on HBO called, "How to make it in America," where the characters try to start a selvedge jean line. Not a bad show though, somewhat interesting.

It is always good to stumble into a nice conversation about consumerism.

I watched the episode and was nerdy enough to think I don't think Jean Shop makes jeans out of LHT, which is what the roll was purported to be, and who it was supposed to have been for, originally.

[Dr_Heech]

LVC Canvas Duck Closed Front Jumper Oki Ni 256$, Cultizm 239$ (minus a bit for those in the know).

Saw that Duck shirt in Cinch and fell in love. The canvas is as good as the early 555 'duck family' complete with black ID line and an embossed label but with no 'print' on it. The cut is awesome, very much like the original, of which i've only seen photos, boxy but not too short. The buttons, like the canvas, are a thing of beauty. The only downside IMO were the rivets, which although are correct with the pat 1873 stamp, are not copper or flat topped, like the 555 stuff, but rather have a burnished finish similar to more modern 501's.

.

[roy6]

$200+ for jeans is one thing, but $200+ for a G'damn shirt is where I draw the line I don't care where it's made or what it's made of that's just ridiculous -- talk about a vulgar display of consumerism jthat cuts the cake...jeeez. What shirt are you talking about??

Not to single you out, electrum, cause I agree with pretty much everything you said, but it seemed like the best place to reply with quote from.

Another way to look at the pricing of LVC and other high end & good quality denim brands is to look back at the way clothing was purchased before consumerism really spread into the masses (in the western world in the '50s? Arguable, I know).

For instance, that cotton duck jumper was originally produced in, what, the early 1900s or thereabouts? I don't have a good grasp of how 1900 US dollars convert to modern currency, but I am willing to bet that one of these original jumpers cost a much larger percentage of a average persons income then than a low-end denim or duck jacket would proportionally cost today from Wallmart, or even a better garment, say from Cabellas or Carhart. People saved up, bought relatively expensive garments of good quality, and wore them 'til they fell apart.

Which is more consumerist (in the "bad" way)- that model or the modern one of buying relatively cheap garments and wearing them for a season or two then discarding or giving them away?

LVC practices a vintage pricing system.

One could subvert that policy by buying their stuff and then never wearing it.

[electrum]

LVC Canvas Duck Closed Front Jumper Oki Ni 256$, Cultizm 239$ (minus a bit for those in the know).

Kinda strange looking shirt IMO, I can't see anyone wearing that w/out looking like a Cossack east of the Urals on his way to the gallows. Probably of the untmost quality, but it's still just a shirt and for over $200 that's crazy.

[electrum]

....I don't have a good grasp of how 1900 US dollars convert to modern currency, but I am willing to bet that one of these original jumpers cost a much larger percentage of a average persons income then than a low-end denim or duck jacket would proportionally cost today from Wallmart, or even a better garment, say from Cabellas or Carhart....quote]

Using your then vs now inflation example to determine price as a guide, I bought an original deadstock Sears 1938 work shirt off of ebay a couple of yrs ago for 24 bucks. I located the same shirt in an original 1938 Sears catalog advertised for 58 cents. Using the US gov. online inflation calculator that same shirt in todays dollars would cost $8.82 or 1421.5% change. What then would the cost of that $230 cotton canvas shirt be in 1938 dollars? It would've been $15.12. So you see shirts didn't sell for such ridiciculous prices back then and they don't sell for that now if you want to look at it from your inflation adjusted point of view.

[ChuckO]

I think for working folks pre-1950's in the US clothes had a different place in their lives outside of just price. Most folks had a small number of shirts and a pair of pants they LIVED in and if they were lucky also had a nicer shirt /pants for church/important events. Plus in a lot of places you had to travel to get new clothes which wouldn't have been treated lightly. I would think you respected your clothes much like you would a hammer you needed. I suspect England/France/Germany/Italy was much the same.

I live in an 1927 farmhouse and let me tell you the closets aren't built for people who owned much of anything never mind much in the way of clothes.

[ChuckO]

Oh yes, might as well put my 47 fit pic on here. My waist size is 32, these were 34W, actual size was 33.

Very cool! Love that jacket. That's class.

[Paul T]

Kinda strange looking shirt IMO, I can't see anyone wearing that w/out looking like a Cossack east of the Urals on his way to the gallows. Probably of the untmost quality, but it's still just a shirt and for over $200 that's crazy.

Hahaha, you're making the idea of buying this shirt so crazy I'm finding myself drawn in, inexorably!

It's a valid subject for debate, because jeans suggest minimalism, rigour, and hard work, the antithesis of consumerism.

I am likely to buy that shirt because i know how much care went in to making that fabric and appreciate that aesthetic. I think it might make me look like a dork... weird... perhaps that is part of the appeal. ANd maybe looking like a cossack on his way to the gallows plays to my part-Slav heritage. Seriously, I look forward to being an old fella, in my 60s or 70s, cleaning the windows, in that shirt, it will be paint-splattered, faded and stained, and that will be cool.

[Happy Hooligan]

. Using the US gov. online inflation calculator that same shirt in todays dollars would cost $8.82 or 1421.5% change. What then would the cost of that $230 cotton canvas shirt be in 1938 dollars? It would've been $15.12. So you see shirts didn't sell for such ridiciculous prices back then and they don't sell for that now if you want to look at it from your inflation adjusted point of view.

$15.12 for a shirt is 1938 is very, very expensive! Today sure 15 bucks for a shirt is decent, but in 1938? Minimum wage in 1938 was .25 cents an hour!

A guy would have to work 61 hours to buy that shirt!

And a guy that makes .25 cents an hour wouldn't spend over a week of work a shirt...

here's a 1938 sears catalog with work shirts in it. $15.00 is just a tad off...

[ChuckO]

The thing is, that's still consumerism. You're purchasing a product that you feel is in line with your personal value system. Even if that value system is ostensibly in opposition to consumerism, that behavior is a form of consumption. In fact, purchasing products in order to construct or compliment identify is part of consumerism's definition.

Why not just accept it, maintain a healthy perspective in life and enjoy these jeans you really like?

I understand the insecurity, though: I stepped into the Soho Levis store this week, curious to see if LVC was back yet and noticed they are selling a non-LVC, non Big E 501 featuring selvedge denim. An employee came over to me and explained how great "salvage" denim was, while a sticker on the jeans instructed the buyer to cuff them so everyone can see how great your pants are.

Later I stopped by Gap and saw they've got some pretty mediocre jeans absolutely gaudy with selvedge details. The back pockets had visible selvedge lining on top. A big black sticker on the cuff said "SELVEDGE ----->".

The trendiness of selvedge is becoming a little embarrassing. I predict that within two years my students will be coming to class wearing their new, cardboard-stiff jeans inside out so the whole world can witness all thirty two inches of shuttle loom freshness.

I hope your right about your students. I'd love to see it hit big because the only way that would happen is for the old economies of scale bring the price down.

I don't personally do it to be an elitist regular Levi's just aren't denim jeans and don't have what makes denim jeans great. I'm a big fan of ubiquity when it's because people realize somethings good. Here's to a bright future for selvedge!

[ChuckO]

The other thing is your students are one of the first generations with no exposure to just about anything authentic. A 20 year at this point has been brought up on highly processed food and post-selvedge jeans, post-gas crisis cars. All their music is music that's based on other commercial music as opposed to most pre-1990 music that had some relationship to America's roots music.

[WhiskeySD]

The other thing is your students are one of the first generations with no exposure to just about anything authentic. A 20 year at this point has been brought up on highly processed food and post-selvedge jeans, post-gas crisis cars. All their music is music that's based on other commercial music as opposed to most pre-1990 music that had some relationship to America's roots music.

well..that's just depressing

[ThisSunday]

Xpost from WAYWT

LVC 33s

[ChuckO]

well..that's just depressing

Yea you think about these kids that have been brought up with cable TV and game consoles and parents monitoring their every move. Stuck in front of TV's with a pile of snacks. Scary stuff.

[jstavrin]

My thoughts selvage's increase in popularity: I think it's blown way out of proportion on this board. I live in LA, and while I do see more dudes wearing APCs than I used to, selvage really isn't all that prevalent. It'll come and go like anything else.

I haven't worn LVC in awhile, but this is still probably my favorite thread on superfuture. I always enjoy these discussions (more in reference to the consumerism talk rather than my comment).

[ChuckO]

I agree. Selvedge going huge seems unlikely. I think a number of things work against it from the consumerism element (the vast majority of people are just cycling thru trends) to the ballooning of the American waist line.

I think the lack of stylishness has it's roots in America's weight problems. You can hit areas here on the east coast where you'd think you were in Russia or some other iron curtain country with very stocky guys in bad jeans and black leather car coats and van dyke beards looking like thugs from the Russian mob.

Hopefully selvedge will find a enough of an audience to be available in the long term.

One thing though nobody is marketing it in the US well.

[electrum]

Hahaha........maybe looking like a cossack on his way to the gallows plays to my part-Slav heritage. Seriously, I look forward to being an old fella, in my 60s or 70s, cleaning the windows, in that shirt, it will be paint-splattered, faded and stained, and that will be cool.

I'm of Polish/Czech heritage so the Cossack analogy wasn't intended as a bad thing just my way of describing its uniqueness -- figured someone would get a chuckle out of that. I've got to admit it is a pretty cool shirt even though maybe not for all tastes. If the shirt has your blessing as well as the good doctor's, then it must be a phenomenal garment, after all you guys have never steered us wrong on this board. Still think 200 is too much too pay for any shirt, but that's just me. I might get myself one if I'm lcky to find one @ a discount.

[RRLselvageDenim]

@ Jstavrin -I live in Hollywood most of what I see in terms of personal style is a bunch of Ed hardy, True Religion, Affliction, that belong in the ugly jeans thread. The crap is so pervasive, it's repulsive. Every now and again, I go into Mister Freedom, Craft LA, Chucks Vintage, and American Rag Cie on La Brea and RRL on Melrose and i'm reassured. So I digress, forgive me.

[roy6]

recomputed now vs. then cost computation for LVC duck closed front jumper:

Wholesale cost of 1 doz. closed front denim jumpers in 1908: $8.75 USD (assuming similar price to duck version)

Wholesale cost of 1 denim closed front denim jumper in 1908: $0.73

Retail cost of 1 DCFJ in 1908 assuming 50% markup: approx. $1.00

Conversion of $1.00 USD 1908 to 2008 dollars using nominal GDP per capita method: $139.61

Cost of LVC repro closed front cotton duck jumper in 2010 (via Cultizm): $200

Cost of LVC repro after Probable 30% off end of season sale at Cultizm: $140.00

So if you wait for the sale, the average 2010 US citizen can buy this repro for almost exactly the same portion of his income as an average 1908 US citizen could buy the original. Less $.39. Plus shipping.

[ChuckO]

@ Jstavrin -I live in Hollywood most of what I see in terms of personal style is a bunch of Ed hardy, True Religion, Affliction, that belong in the ugly jeans thread. The crap is so pervasive, it's repulsive. Every now and again, I go into Mister Freedom, Craft LA, Chucks Vintage, and American Rag Cie on La Brea and RRL on Melrose and i'm reassured. So I digress, forgive me.

From that description I imagine most people in LA dressed like their waiting for their call to audition for the next Rob Zombie film but settling for a segment on "LA Ink" instead.

[Dr_Heech]

I'm of Polish/Czech heritage so the Cossack analogy wasn't intended as a bad thing just my way of describing its uniqueness -- figured someone would get a chuckle out of that. I've got to admit it is a pretty cool shirt even though maybe not for all tastes. If the shirt has your blessing as well as the good doctor's, then it must be a phenomenal garment, after all you guys have never steered us wrong on this board. Still think 200 is too much too pay for any shirt, but that's just me. I might get myself one if I'm lcky to find one @ a discount.

Electrum,

Dont get me wrong, the shirt is a thing of beauty..etc, but at £150 there's no way I'd buy one. I just feel I've been a little negative of Lvc of late and was trying to find something good about my visit to Cinch to post here as I'm hoping (fingers crossed) that this XX team are gonna turn things around with Lvc. There are many (obvious) areas where Lvc let themselves' down when you have their entire range in front of you, but I'm just an old(er) denim geek with a sort of OCD with details, so that's just my bag.

Btw, the new 1944's are awesome - the patch is the first correct patch I've seen on Lvc (identical almost to the originals) - thick and embossed, and the pocket arcs ..etc are spot on.

Lastly, really like your 201's, they are the new batch(?) - especially like the R/H drop on the pocket arcs. The ones at cinch are 2007 stock, or at least the few pairs I've looked at. Do they have two colours of thread on the back pockets as I couldn't tell from the pics you posted a while back??

.

[jstavrin]

@ Jstavrin -I live in Hollywood most of what I see in terms of personal style is a bunch of Ed hardy, True Religion, Affliction, that belong in the ugly jeans thread. The crap is so pervasive, it's repulsive. Every now and again, I go into Mister Freedom, Craft LA, Chucks Vintage, and American Rag Cie on La Brea and RRL on Melrose and i'm reassured. So I digress, forgive me.

LA Superfuture Denim meet-up? There's a lot of us around here.

[chris_n]

holler at dat. i'm gonna be at the getty tomorrow for the rembrandt and panorama exhibits

[jstavrin]

Not to keep cluttering up this thread, but you'll be like five minutes away from my apartment. Bar meet-up forthcoming?

[roy6]

Good point, but the rampant consumerism is more about the Japanese jeans - they're more expensive and give more bragging rights.

THanks Crownzip - that's the LVC Blue Black, the 30s motorocycle jacket, made by Lewis Leathers IIRC, from the 2003 season.It is a lovely, very flattering cut, but very trim. Mine's a medium (I always wear small in, say, Gap sizing).

Roy here has one, too, you probabyl overlooked the jacket as his room is so disgracefully untidy. (But his hair looks good, I admit).

I walk in shame.

The blue-black is really beautiful. Of all the LVC leather jackets, the Aero made ones really stand out, and this is one of the best of those.

Like Sympathyforthedenim said, these are seriously undersized, and cut very short at the cuffs and hem as well.

Some photos sans bedroom clutter, to soothe Paul's delicate sensibilities:

[Paul T]

A work of photographic beauty, ROy! Your style shines through all the better in a simple setting...

I need ot get mine completely relined, unfortunatley. One day I'll own more tham one jacket that isn't ripped to shreds or mouldy inside...

[crownzip]

Thanks for the photos roy6. The jacket looks like it was kind of modeled after the old Hercules or Monarch work jackets from the 30's and 40's.