Levi's Vintage Clothing

[Dr_Heech]

THe Type 1 came out well before the red tab was introduced, I think, but early examples are rare; it looks as if the cheaper version, the 206, was more popular. I haven't checked, but I think Levi's aren't sure when it first appeared, due to lost records. But it certinaly predated the introduciton of the red tab in 1936/7.

Nearly all the RType 1 I've seen have the tab, probably because it really became popular in the late 30s - I don't think I've seen an old one in the flesh without the red tab, but I've seen plenty of archive photos of them. I can't remember what year the LVC version replicates, I would presume it's 1937.

Dr Heech will correct me if I'm wrong. Where are you Doctor? Hope all's well.

Hi Paul,

The earliest record of the first pleated blouse (506xx + it's cheaper cousin, the 213) seems to be around the 1890's. In Lynn's book, there is an early handbill dated 1899 which has pics of it (p.27) and there's also a photo of a trade fair with a display of levis garments mentioning 'riveted blouses' from 1898 (p.30).

Your right, early examples are rare (I've only ever seen one pre-'36 model in the flesh) but there is a photo in the Lightining DENIM book #9 (taken from Marvin's vast collection) and interestingly (in the same book) a chap named Iishi who has several 213's dating back to c. 1910. Will try to dig em out. Very busy at mo. plus broadband has been playin up.

The term 'type one' (+ type two, type three..etc) was given to the 506/213 by denim dealers in the eighties.

The LVC one is supposed to be a repro of the 1936/7 model, as you said, when the whole 'cowboy/dude ranch' trend took off in the mid-late thirties.

Things are 'difficult' at present, but getting better ( thanks for askin, mate)

Had a great time in London. Visited Rokit, interstate, classics and of course, Cinch.

.

[chris_n]

the '47s are very rewarding. I have another pair deadstock for after my eternals get a good 1.5-2 years on them.

rest of pics here: http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showpost.php?p=2073654&postcount=17818

[thomass]

i love what you've done with your '47s chris_n.

[roy6]

you know how to cuff roy.( did i understand it right that you dont want me to call you roy6,mr.shirt-tucker?)

You understand correctly, my friend.

[Paul T]

I think most of the raw LVCa are now US made cone denim.

The new LVC schtick is all about made in the US. All the denim is made by Cone in N Carolina, all the dry and many of the other pieces, I believe the shirts, jackets etc, are made in the US in a non-Levi factory, probably Caitac or Denim-Tech in California. Sadly, Levi's closed the last of its own factories, Valencia St and San Antonio, around 2003.

SOme of the laundry work is Italy and Turkey - some of the washed pieces are made in Turkey too, and odd bits of denim, I think for the washed range, comes from Orta, again in Turkey.

Dr, great to see you again. And of course I should have said 213 for the jacket - that's what a cheap Wolf blass plonk will do for ya. I think Levi's earliest 213 is from 1905 or so, without a pocekt flap. Good luck with yer hassles. What did you think of the new-look Cinch?

Yes, Roy, that's some good cuffin!

[fardin]

nice to see you back dr. hope everything is fine.

i wonder when lvc is going to make an early version of the 213?

hellers cafe has nice version of an early neustadter jacket ( boss of the road)

[Shorty Long]

I wish Levi would go ahead and move all production of LVC to the U.S. I'm not sure how feasible this would be considering they're officially HQ'd in Europe, but if labels like Engineered Garments can do it, I don't see why Levi couldn't as well.

For the Spring '10 line, it appears as if all but one of the raw jeans models are US-made, but I haven't come across any other pieces. Based on the few pictures I've seen of labels on tops (t's, sweats, etc.), production appears to still be in Portugal. I'm assuming the same is true for the Sunset chambray, but I'm not certain (I'll know for sure tomorrow).

The raw type-I jacket is made in Turkey, and I'm still awaiting word on where the closed front jumper was made.

I'm sure many don't care about such details, but it matters to some of us.

The new LVC schtick is all about made in the US. All the denim is made by Cone in N Carolina, all the dry and many of the other pieces, I believe the shirts, jackets etc, are made in the US in a non-Levi factory, probably Caitac or Denim-Tech in California. Sadly, Levi's closed the last of its own factories, Valencia St and San Antonio, around 2003.

SOme of the laundry work is Italy and Turkey - some of the washed pieces are made in Turkey too, and odd bits of denim, I think for the washed range, comes from Orta, again in Turkey.

Dr, great to see you again. And of course I should have said 213 for the jacket - that's what a cheap Wolf blass plonk will do for ya. I think Levi's earliest 213 is from 1905 or so, without a pocekt flap. Good luck with yer hassles. What did you think of the new-look Cinch?

Yes, Roy, that's some good cuffin!

[ThomasK]

I wish Levi would go ahead and move all production of LVC to the U.S.

I'm sure many don't care about such details, but it matters to some of us.

Signed.

But it looks like many customers enjoy the pre distressed denim.the FW 10 collection contains a lot pre-distressed garments, i think.

There are lots of potential customers that just don't know about LVC, maybe this will change a bit as LVC will be available in the US again.

Before they completely stop to produce raw jeans theay should try to make them in Turkey

[Rivet Head]

I would really like to see LVC available again in th US and not just in L.A./New York. Most of it's already made in the US, why should we as consumers have to re-import something from EU?

[ChuckO]

I think the problem is Levi only does LVC for fairly esoteric business reasons. The money they can make on it is a rounding error in the grand scheme of their business but they feel like they need to be in this market for heritage reasons and probably most important is to try and stay relevant in the "hipster" market for brand reasons. Basically so kids see someone they respect wearing LVC and go buy the most expensive Levi model they can afford.

That opinions based on general business principles not any inside knowledge of Levi.

[Shorty Long]

FYI...I'm unloading an authentic vintage Levi Longhorn wool shirt on ebay

http://shop.ebay.com/eddiemetasovich/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

[Shorty Long]

On the Duck Closed Front jumper in this season's collection...

It's made in Turkey.

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

somehow i don´t understand the hole, where it´s made discussion, i mean, do you think that old long bearded guys who faught in the ww2 are working in the us factory, or couldn´t it be that the same poor people from mexico or vietnam sew the pieces together to minimum of money... thinking of engineered garments i will hope that lvc won´t become that expensive for denim always was a democratic piece of clothes!

[Shorty Long]

This is why it interests me:

- heritage/history

- worker rights (although that could be up for debate)

- quality (once again...up for debate)

- environment (things like exporting US cotton to another country to produce garments that will be re-imported into the US blow my mind)

[Dr_Heech]

Dr, great to see you again. And of course I should have said 213 for the jacket - that's what a cheap Wolf blass plonk will do for ya. I think Levi's earliest 213 is from 1905 or so, without a pocekt flap. Good luck with yer hassles. What did you think of the new-look Cinch?

Thanks Paul (btw, the '206' could be a new mid range jacket LOL !)

Yeah, the 213 in your book is the earliest one they have in LS&co's vault, but this Iishi chap has one too (plus two others!) -

Plus heres a couple of pix of pre-1936 506's (both from different Lightining mags) -

Apologies for the quality of the photos but it's the best I can do with my camera. Should invest in a decent one: maybe one day when I stop spending £ on denim!

.

[Dr_Heech]

nice to see you back dr. hope everything is fine.

i wonder when lvc is going to make an early version of the 213?

hellers cafe has nice version of an early neustadter jacket ( boss of the road)

Thanks Fardin, you are always full of facinating info on up and coming repros from the old makers.

I would love to see an early, turn of the century 506xx, with the pale yellow/light copper stitching and no pocket flap.

I love the Valencia made S506xx, but the red tag kind of makes me want Lvc to make an early version, say circa 1899.

.

[Shorty Long]

Farinelli's out of DC now has some rigid 501s for sale...

http://www.shopfarinellis.com/ms-90-2-lvc.aspx

[Paul T]

This is why it interests me:

- heritage/history

- worker rights (although that could be up for debate)

- quality (once again...up for debate)

- environment (things like exporting US cotton to another country to produce garments that will be re-imported into the US blow my mind)

I agree. TO some extent, though, that bird has flown. I think it was a near-crime for the old Levi's MD, Phil Marineau, to close Valencia St; there is some truth to the fact that contract garment workers in California (not necessarily in the plants mentioned) do not necessarily enjoy better conditions than Turkey. I am more pleased that the jumper has Cone fabric , than upset it's made in Turkey.

The closure of Taylor Togs was sad, too; from what I've heard, it wasn't thru lack of work, more the costs loaded on to the plant thru things like health insurance and pensions. THat's the downside of capitalism.

And thanks for the info, Shorty!

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

i fully understand your points shorty, just thought that "us made" does not necessarily mean that quality is better than turkey or italy made jeans... but

thats globalisation...

[Paul T]

I doubt that anyone here takes that away from this board.

I agree with you. But this board is split between people who wear their jeans, and those who accumulate more and more, for whom dropping the $$$ and displaying a hoard they will never wear is part of the thrill.

As for me, dropping $$$ is something I actively avoid. ...

[crownzip]

Hey Paul,

Great looking '47's and leather work jacket. You look like you could be an extra right out of ON THE WATERFRONT. Who is the maker of the jacket?

Oh yes, might as well put my 47 fit pic on here. My waist size is 32, these were 34W, actual size was 33.

[Rivet Head]

I agree with you. But this board is split between people who wear their jeans, and those who accumulate more and more, for whom dropping the $$$ and displaying a hoard they will never wear is part of the thrill.

As for me, dropping $$$ is something I actively avoid. ...

Don't bash the hoarders, they keep LVC in business...

[electrum]

Yeah, I see your point Paul. Although, I can see some people having the desire to get that nxt cool model. That's where the historic aspect gets in the way everyone who appreciates Levi's history will want the '89, '01, '15, '20, '33, and on and on. Then it becomes a collection of clothing rather than useful clothing and I don't see anything wrong with that. Like I said, people like to collect certain things and jeans are just as interesting as the nxt. I don't consider that consumerism.

[Paul T]

Don't bash the hoarders, they keep LVC in business...

Good point, but the rampant consumerism is more about the Japanese jeans - they're more expensive and give more bragging rights.

THanks Crownzip - that's the LVC Blue Black, the 30s motorocycle jacket, made by Lewis Leathers IIRC, from the 2003 season.It is a lovely, very flattering cut, but very trim. Mine's a medium (I always wear small in, say, Gap sizing).

Roy here has one, too, you probabyl overlooked the jacket as his room is so disgracefully untidy. (But his hair looks good, I admit).

[Joseph Hill]

I agree. TO some extent, though, that bird has flown. I think it was a near-crime for the old Levi's MD, Phil Marineau, to close Valencia St; there is some truth to the fact that contract garment workers in California (not necessarily in the plants mentioned) do not necessarily enjoy better conditions than Turkey. I am more pleased that the jumper has Cone fabric , than upset it's made in Turkey.

The closure of Taylor Togs was sad, too; from what I've heard, it wasn't thru lack of work, more the costs loaded on to the plant thru things like health insurance and pensions. THat's the downside of capitalism.

And thanks for the info, Shorty!

When Levis started, the robber barons were shouting "The business of business is business!" They were not in it for heritage, health and welfare of their workers, or safety and satisfaction of their customers, only that they were able to amass wealth. It nearly destroyed the country. Then two or three more times, we did it again. Watching out for your own countrys (or state, or town) ability to continue to produce real, tangible goods is what will keep you from ruin. I've got nothing against foreign goods, or foreign workers, but decisions like product purchases should always have at least some consideration for the larger ramifications. I used to like Doc Martins, but they shiped production to China, do the Chinese make a better boot? No, they just don't want to pay the English worker a living wage. I was in the Filson factory showroom, and was mortified when from ten feet away, something wasn't right with a shirt on the rack, then feeling the garment before I even saw the made in Mexico tag confirmed it was crap (still 80$ though). Turning around you can look through the factory window and see the sewing of the goods still made (and made fantastically) in Seattle and it's all Chinese faces. It's not the race of the people that makes the difference in the value or quality of the good, but the circumstances under which they are made. I swore off Levis when they shipped production overseas, and didn't give them a second thought until I learned about LVC a couple of months ago (some great promotion they've been doing). I'll buy their US stitched goods, even if it's got Japanese denim, because they went with the Japanese for quality, not because they were the dirt cheapest. I'd really like that duck jumper and a 1936 jacket in raw, and I'd pay the price if it meant someone here was making a living wage with the benifits that someone who lives by labor deserves, but the day I pay 200+$ for a shirt stitched in Turkey, someone is gonna be throwing snowballs at the devil.

[Rivet Head]

That is a killer jacket Paul!

I have about 8 pairs of LVC, all but one style are different and were purchased over the last 8 - 10 years. Here they are in order of purchase:

1955 501xx Valencia

201xx Valencia with the leather patch - 2pair bought at TJ Maxx

1937 501xx

1947501xx

1927 501xx

1933 501xx

Knappave

I currently have the 1944 Buckleback jacket, but have owned the 1930's one a couple of times. I average about 1 pair a year...

[electrum]

$200+ for jeans is one thing, but $200+ for a G'damn shirt is where I draw the line I don't care where it's made or what it's made of that's just ridiculous -- talk about a vulgar display of consumerism jthat cuts the cake...jeeez. What shirt are you talking about??

[Dr_Heech]

What did you think of the new-look Cinch?

Sorry, forgot to answer that in my last post.

Thought the new look Cinch shop was great, will definately go up again soon. Nice easy layout, uncluttered, lots of wood, appropriate displays (no more gaudy/trendy shite) and especially loved the entire range hanging up on pegs for easy viewing.

Interestingly, could compare various models/details and mistakes ( I wont bore you all with the details!) - it's as good as it was when I first visited the place Xmas '99, and to anyone who hasn't visited the shop, my advice is to make time to go there. You wont be disappointed.

Didn't get to meet Dan until I was almost leaving, but the younger chap, Chris (I think) was very enthused and chatty. Talked about the models/details and mistakes..etc, and He was very informed and didn't take my comments as at all negative. Just enjoyed the banter.

Funnily enough, He thought I was you at first (Lol!) - must have looked like a sufu guru, or maybe it was the M-422 and '55's combo!?!

One or two models in particular caught my eye..........

.

[Dr_Heech]

BLM

FYI - Here's a pair of the 1st Blue synthetic indigo 1873 (stamped 822, rather than 555) I thought you had for comparison pix of your 1873 natties.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Levis-Levi-Denim-Vintage-W36-L38-BIG-E-1st-Blue-Jean_W0QQitemZ230439398035QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMode_nach_Jahrzehnten?hash=item35a7422a93

.

[Zazamoot]

I'm the only one who knows they cost me 200 bucks, so I don't feel like some pretty boy flaunting some pricey pussy pants that everyone else has because Brat Pitt was seen wearing them. That's what differentiates LVC from the rest -- you're not paying for a trendy fashion statement, you're paying for historic functional quality blue jeans. Foe me that's not consumerism, but rather pragmatism.

The thing is, that's still consumerism. You're purchasing a product that you feel is in line with your personal value system. Even if that value system is ostensibly in opposition to consumerism, that behavior is a form of consumption. In fact, purchasing products in order to construct or compliment identify is part of consumerism's definition.

Why not just accept it, maintain a healthy perspective in life and enjoy these jeans you really like?

I understand the insecurity, though: I stepped into the Soho Levis store this week, curious to see if LVC was back yet and noticed they are selling a non-LVC, non Big E 501 featuring selvedge denim. An employee came over to me and explained how great "salvage" denim was, while a sticker on the jeans instructed the buyer to cuff them so everyone can see how great your pants are.

Later I stopped by Gap and saw they've got some pretty mediocre jeans absolutely gaudy with selvedge details. The back pockets had visible selvedge lining on top. A big black sticker on the cuff said "SELVEDGE ----->".

The trendiness of selvedge is becoming a little embarrassing. I predict that within two years my students will be coming to class wearing their new, cardboard-stiff jeans inside out so the whole world can witness all thirty two inches of shuttle loom freshness.