Jump to content
Westbrook

Acronym.

Recommended Posts

I see. It seems to me you want some justification for paying for less for a rep that is 'equal' in quality to actual Acronym pieces. If acronym is currently out of your reach financially maybe you shouldn't be overly vocal on things you don't know about, eh? Such as construction, pricing, quality, iterative changes etc especially if you haven't tried it on hand to understand these things. And pricing complaints have been a thing since the very beginning of acr and that isn't gonna change going forward. No point trying to justify paying for what at the end of the day is fashion which is just a luxury. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, AvantSol said:

I see. It seems to me you want some justification for paying for less for a rep that is 'equal' in quality to actual Acronym pieces. If acronym is currently out of your reach financially maybe you shouldn't be overly vocal on things you don't know about, eh? Such as construction, pricing, quality, iterative changes etc especially if you haven't tried it on hand to understand these things. And pricing complaints have been a thing since the very beginning of acr and that isn't gonna change going forward. No point trying to justify paying for what at the end of the day is fashion which is just a luxury. 

Yeah pretty much. Maybe it's the Asian financial discipline in me that's holding me back from pulling the trigger. I have money set aside for a shell so it's not exactly out of reach but at the same time, I don't want to incentivize E's price hikes by buying an overpriced good. I won't buy a rep for obvious reasons but if its success convinces E to change then I might be more open to buying retail. Such a shame all the proof of concept in ACR is being locked away behind a price floor. If he still sold a J1A for 1400 (which he 100% still makes money on) I would have one in my hand right now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Orientalq said:

Yeah pretty much. Maybe it's the Asian financial discipline in me that's holding me back from pulling the trigger. I have money set aside for a shell so it's not exactly out of reach but at the same time, I don't want to incentivize E's price hikes by buying an overpriced good. I won't buy a rep for obvious reasons but if its success convinces E to change then I might be more open to buying retail. Such a shame all the proof of concept in ACR is being locked away behind a price floor. If he still sold a J1A for 1400 (which he 100% still makes money on) I would have one in my hand right now. 

Why would he lower the costs of J1A when it sells out at its current price point anyway?

At the end of the day, it's fine if you don't want to "incentivize E's price hikes". However, if you're really struggling to justify spending disposable income or going a little over the budget that you have, maybe ACRONYM isn't the right brand for you.

If you want a shell, you can buy one from anywhere. If you want an ACRONYM shell, why does it have to be the most hyped/iconic style? You can get other ACRONYM shells for the budget that you have or other brands for a lot lower.

Edited by jasonlao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, jasonlao said:

Why would he lower the costs of J1A when it sells out at its current price point anyway?

The same reason any company lowers prices. It sells out because (hint hint) the stock is super low (someone who knows umites personally told me this). E isn't lowering either because 1) he's saving face from when he tried justifying price hikes using half-lies or 2) he's trying to generate hype the same way Supreme does (I hate this so much).  Raise stock => less cost => lower prices => more stock sold and thus more total profit. Unless you're telling me ACR is dying so badly he needs to hike prices to gouge enthusiasts to save the brand. I doubt this given that he drives a McLaren.

As I said earlier, I have enough for whatever jacket he's making. He just needs to prove to me it's worth the price tag (either by quality, materials, design, or all of the above). I bought the CP4 because it was a unique design that did not have a competitive alternative. I'll be happy to do the same for a shell. That or if he lowered prices, which you said is unlikely. 

I like ACR for its design, gimmicks, and details. Not so much for exclusivity and branding (worst parts about fashion today IMO). 

BTW @AvantSol my friend has a J1A 2.2, which is why I'm familiar with the quality. It's def a grail jacket but not worth the 2k price tag IMO. 

Edited by Orientalq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

0D1BE98E-E990-4C82-B382-D2C272DE0C57.jpeg.095c1c5617c36cdc24769fd2d3ccf75c.jpeg

4 minutes ago, Orientalq said:

The same reason any company lowers prices. It sells out because (hint hint) the stock is super low (someone who knows personally umites told me this). E isn't lowering either because 1) he's saving face from when he tried justifying price hikes using half-lies or 2) he's trying to generate hype the same way Supreme does (I hate this so much).  Raise stock => less cost => lower prices => more stock sold and thus more total profit. Unless you're telling me ACR is dying so badly he needs to hike prices to gouge enthusiasts to save the brand. I doubt this given that he drives a McLaren.

As I said earlier, I have enough for whatever jacket he's making. He just needs to prove to me it's worth the price tag (either by quality, materials, design, or all of the above). I bought the CP4 because it was a unique design that did not have a competitive alternative. I'll be happy to do the same for a shell. That or if he lowered prices, which you said is unlikely. 

I like ACR for its design, gimmicks, and details. Not so much for exclusivity and branding (worst parts about fashion today IMO). 

BTW @AvantSol my friend has a J1A 2.2, which is why I'm familiar with the quality. It's def a grail jacket but not worth the 2k price tag IMO. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Orientalq said:

The same reason any company lowers prices. It sells out because (hint hint) the stock is super low (someone who knows personally umites told me this). E isn't lowering either because 1) he's saving face from when he tried justifying price hikes using half-lies or 2) he's trying to generate hype the same way Supreme does (I hate this so much).  Raise stock => less cost => lower prices => more stock sold and thus more total profit. Unless you're telling me ACR is dying so badly he needs to hike prices to gouge enthusiasts to save the brand. I doubt this given that he drives a McLaren.

As I said earlier, I have enough for whatever jacket he's making. He just needs to prove to me it's worth the price tag (either by quality, materials, design, or all of the above). I bought the CP4 because it was a unique design that did not have a competitive alternative. I'll be happy to do the same for a shell. That or if he lowered prices, which you said is unlikely. 

I like ACR for its design, gimmicks, and details. Not so much for exclusivity and branding (worst parts about fashion today IMO). 

BTW @AvantSol my friend has a J1A 2.2, which is why I'm familiar with the quality. It's def a grail jacket but not worth the 2k price tag IMO. 

He doesn't need to prove shit to you and you will never understand with that thick skull of yours. He has proven that his timeless designs are worth it over the past 15 years. The quality, materials, and design are all great.

The true worth of an ACRONYM piece is subjective, and you'll never know unless you give it a shot. But don't knock on the materials, quality, or design if you haven't owned one yourself. Just because your friend owns one doesn't mean anything. His experience with a piece is not guaranteed to be the same experience that you will have.

If you don't think it's worth it, then stop talking about the J1A price / lack of unique design / lack of quality or materials and go cop Riot Division or something

Edited by jasonlao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, hentaiyarou69 said:

On the topic of sizing, 5'10 75kg, size M for both J68 and P31

J68 is a bit roomy (could fit a Acronym x COEVO hoodie inside) but fits well 

PXL_20201031_162530297.MP~2.jpg

goddamn making me regret raf p31a 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, jasonlao said:

He doesn't need to prove shit to you 

with that thick skull of yours. 

"need" is used here in a conditional sense, not a "HE MUST DO THIS OR ELSE" kind of way, sorry if it came out wrong. Calling me stubborn despite having explained my case AND responding to yours with a sound argument is not working here. 

I agree with the design, materials, etc. It's timeless, no doubt. Compared to Arcteryx (or even tilak)? Harder to prove especially with the huge gap despite the materials and basic functionality. " gimmick"(not just my words) aspects like Ezip and Gpockets have rare use cases and are not 100% provable to be worth said price gap. 

It's especially because ACR experience is so varied that I have doubts over its value. I own a CP4, it's cool and as gimmicky as other pieces and the quality is fine. Of course, the J1A and CP4 are different animals but having seen and felt a J1A first hand it doesn't really "beat", so to speak, other pieces like Arcteryx or ACG by that big of a margin. That plus the "investor bias" that happens due to the jackets being so expensive being taken into consideration makes the case even harder to prove. 

I don't need to buy Riot Division when ACG exists/existed. I'm just making my voice heard that there are people like me (whether you believe me or not is up to you) that are willing to buy ACR at the right price or value.

Edited by Orientalq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, markdjr said:

This is some of the dumbest shit I've seen in the 649 pages of this thread.  No fucking kidding there are people like you who would buy ACR if it were cheaper.  There is no need to prove worth to you or anyone, this is simple economics.  There is a price for these goods and people choose to buy them or not.  You are a person who is choosing not to buy them and are making that declaration on a fan page comprised of people who have chosen to buy.  ACR is a luxury brand, always has been, that is the reality of the situation.  It doesn't matter how many pockets this shit has or how good the tailoring is, it is still just a jacket, or pant or whatever.  Go buy a used gore tex jacket off of ebay and save your money, no big deal, stay warm, stay dry and shut the fuck up.  

If you knew simple economics you would know setting stock to extreme lows at a high price is NOT the way to meet price equilibrium. I can guarantee you J1A at sub-1600 with double the stock would still sell out (and thus more profit). 

I am on this fan page because I like the design (aka I'm a fan) and some ACR used to be priced fairly pre-hype. "Go buy something else and shut the fuck up" is gatekeeping at its finest despite the fact that I have also bought ACR. I would rather speak out and have a chance of any hint of this getting into E's ears than not. 

Liking Acronym and being price-sensitive are not mutually exclusive.

Edited by Orientalq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Orientalq said:

I would rather speak out and have a chance of any hint of this getting into E's ears than not. 

You don’t though, breh, so stop.

17 minutes ago, Orientalq said:

If you knew simple economics you would know setting stock to extreme lows at a high price is NOT the way to meet price equilibrium. 

That’s not how Veblen goods operate under “simple economics”, but go off chief.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Acronym has never been purely about profit, let alone price equilibrium, I believe Errolson has said this specifically in past interviews.  Increased production is not the goal, even though it is clearly your goal.  The fact that you think ACR was fairly priced at one point and now is not shows how out of touch you are. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, appolez said:

That’s not how Veblen goods operate under “simple economics”, but go off chief.

Veblen goods like Rolls Royces shouldn't go out of stock (at the speed the J1A does). It's clear he's doing this to build/show hype much like how Yeezy's go out of stock. The difference is that his stock is so low that it barely services the demand. Why aren't Rolls Royce Phantoms priced at 3 million? Higher prices mean more demand, right? It's because of stock. They need to sell at a fair price, and yes, if that price allows for the Veblen good to sell more at a higher price, great. But there is no indication that the J1A wouldn't sell out at 1600 with double the stock. It's the same reason the J1A isn't sold for 3k instead of 2k. 

 

42 minutes ago, markdjr said:

 The fact that you think ACR was fairly priced at one point and now is not shows how out of touch you are. 

Not really, others have pointed out how inexpensive ACR has been compared to now. The price hikes have been noticeable. Example: J48-SS @ 627 euros in 2015 vs @ 1512 euros today. 

Increased production is not the goal, which means E is intentionally suffocating supply to gouge enthusiasts for the sake of hype, (or if he is talking about sustainability, but we all know the amount of waste Acr produces is meaningless compared to fast fashion, and such a stock increase would not bring them anywhere close to said phenomenon. Why not instead take proceeds from more stock and really put where his mouth is by investing in new sustainability projects?) Also, more stock = more employees = more profit = better wages. 

Edited by Orientalq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like you've got it all figured out, might as well start your own clothing line and show him how its done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, markdjr said:

Sounds like you've got it all figured out, might as well start your own clothing line and show him how its done.

I'm going to get so much hate for this here, but this is enfin leve manifest. Especially with enfin going as far as replacing ACR for some retailers.

But I haven't purchased enfin because I don't support copycats (or reps) either... I buy ACG because I want to support E going mainstream.

I want to see a middleground where ACR reverts the price gouging over the years but stays at a high price (hence why I said J1A at 1500-1600 USD not 1200 or lower which is also profitable). I just don't buy the low stock theory of hype and luxury. 

Edited by Orientalq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What’s your end goal? If you’ve such a strong critique of how they operate, then just write them an email. Or send the man himself a DM. 

As you lurk here you’ll know you’re not the first to have a point of view on the ACRONYM business model, yet you’ve just haphazardly presented the same lazy critique with an assured confidence that yours is the superior take on things.

Read the room a bit more next time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sounds like you have ideas which would make Acronym succeed more

Quote

I can guarantee you J1A at sub-1600 with double the stock would still sell out (and thus more profit). 

I understand that you have critiques. It appears to me that you believe that the direction Acronym is currently taking is incorrect, that if they continue on this path they will be less successful because other people (Replica Makers) will show that it can be done cheaper for the "exact product". If this continues then they would go out of business. This doesn't appear to be the case based on their current offerings.

Quote

he's trying to generate hype the same way Supreme does (I hate this so much). 

I don't know if Errolsons ever said that or thats his intention or if they are just a small company that doesn't scale easily. You may be right or wrong. Not enough information.

Quote

He just needs to prove to me it's worth the price tag

I think this is the most important line. He has already proved to you the individual that it is not worth it, which is why you haven't bought it yet even though you are financially capable to. He's proved to other individuals that it is worth it, which is why they own it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This argument is as old as luxury goods itself. You can easily substitute "Acronym" for "Rolex" in this whole discussion, and even the most experienced watch enthusiasts won't tell the difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

aight so does the melange p9-ch get sick fades or nah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking back now.. E made the price hike at the best possible timing in SS18. If customers had an issue with it, we wouldn't have seen the P10's, P24's, S8-DS (think it cost €600 for a tank top), etc sell out so quickly. E was savvy, or cunning if you prefer, in setting the prices closer to resell prices and tested the market and came away a winner.

It's been so ingrained in our heads and wallets now that pants will at least cost €1,000 if made in EU and we don't even complain any more. Not to mention I think Acronym is actually decently priced compared to Visvim, Off-White, Prada, or other heritage luxury brands. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Orientalq said:

I'm going to get so much hate for this here, but this is enfin leve manifest. Especially with enfin going as far as replacing ACR for some retailers.

But I haven't purchased enfin because I don't support copycats (or reps) either... I buy ACG because I want to support E going mainstream.

I want to see a middleground where ACR reverts the price gouging over the years but stays at a high price (hence why I said J1A at 1500-1600 USD not 1200 or lower which is also profitable). I just don't buy the low stock theory of hype and luxury. 

Bruh if u put all that “knowledge” to good use and get a job as an, idk, economist, u might be able to afford acrnm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, kobebean said:

multi 68 looks better on the sling than on body :ph34r:

 

On 10/30/2020 at 6:37 PM, mikon_nikon said:

J68-PL-MULTI arrived. unsure if the novelty of the colour blocking will wear off but I can immediately see myself getting a lot of wear out of this jacket. as discussed above, the Alpha Green is much more of a grey-green than the (true?) colour of the P10s. I was kind of expecting that from the photos though.  

@hentaiyarou69, does your collar zip on the J68 Multi appear olive as well? I'm assuming jacket shown on mothersite pics were a prototype?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, iamundying said:

 

@hentaiyarou69, does your collar zip on the J68 Multi appear olive as well? I'm assuming jacket shown on mothersite pics were a prototype?

Can confirm it's olive. Looks much better than black imho

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, moneytalks said:

Bruh if u put all that “knowledge” to good use and get a job as an, idk, economist, u might be able to afford acrnm

As I said in my conversation with @jasonlao I have enough for whatever the right price is. I'm not broke, I'm just more price sensitive. It's like that for any hobby. Someone people think spending 2k on a jacket is acceptable, some people don't. I happen to think J1A at 2k is pushing it when it has sold for less before. 

 

8 hours ago, mikon_nikon said:

What’s your end goal? If you’ve such a strong critique of how they operate, then just write them an email. Or send the man himself a DM. 

As you lurk here you’ll know you’re not the first to have a point of view on the ACRONYM business model, yet you’ve just haphazardly presented the same lazy critique with an assured confidence that yours is the superior take on things.

Read the room a bit more next time. 

I have told E and he always replies with "you're not in the industry" which means nothing to me. It's clear he has a been on the hype craze especially with his love affair with hypebeast. Hence why I talked to people who are in the industry close to ACR who agree that price hikes are more marketing than logistics.  

I'm not the first but I won't be the last either. So what, because someone has complained about the business model months, or even years, back means that you can't talk about the same topic again? "Stop giving your lazy critique of capitalism, Marx did it before! Read the room!" Also with the news of an infamously skilled replica manufacturer taking on ACR you don't think it's fair to put that into context of pricing? 

In response to "lazy critique" I really don't see how my rhetoric or its contents are lazy or half-assed. Please elaborate. I also haven't projected any "sense of superiority" over any of the members on this forum. I haven't claimed to have had the "superior take" in any of this. In fact I have made it clear that my viewpoint is more rare especially in an enthusiast space. Dissent is fair game. I'll take as many neg reps as it takes to keep the ongoing topic of price, especially if there is a contextual reason to do so.

I seriously don't get the "shut up" attitude some have here. If someone has a viewpoint I disagree with, I would start a discussion, not shut him up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, iamundying said:

Looking back now.. E made the price hike at the best possible timing in SS18. If customers had an issue with it, we wouldn't have seen the P10's, P24's, S8-DS (think it cost €600 for a tank top), etc sell out so quickly. E was savvy, or cunning if you prefer, in setting the prices closer to resell prices and tested the market and came away a winner.

It's hard to make a judgment as to the success of something based on selling out. You can only tell if something is failing (J1L, sunglasses, for example). This is because ACR and other retailers do not show exact stock. It's very possible the P10s, P24s were made at low stock, low enough to sell out to enthusiasts who aren't price sensitive but not enough to meet the real demand.

We need more information to make a judgment as to whether price hikes were "a winner" or not. Especially with E's display on Twitter regarding price hikes, its probable that he is saving face/not trying to look greedy with his contradictory claims of " euro wages" when he has moved some production to China.

Stock transparency would be very well appreciated if E would be willing to lose some face in favor of feedback. That said ACR's formula has been a well-kept secret (for better or worse) so it's a tough prospect. 

Edited by Orientalq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Orientalq said:

I seriously don't get the "shut up" attitude some have here. If someone has a viewpoint I disagree with, I would start a discussion, not shut him up.

If you want to start a discussion, start your own thread, it's a discussion that has gone on for a long time regarding luxury brands in general, not just ACR, feel free to continue the discussion on your own thread.  This thread is over 10 years old and has been sustained by people who passionately support the brand, not question and complain about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, markdjr said:

If you want to start a discussion, start your own thread

Last I read I was the only one talking specifically about ACR pricing model AND giving possible solutions. If you think this thread is all roses go to the first page of the thread and you'll find complaints about exclusivity and pricing. This is a systemic problem and it won't go away because you're tired of hearing about it. Sorry you don't get your monopoly on this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, hoju said:

People, people, please. 

Who’s everyone voting for?

 

B0B04D59-6B03-444E-BB40-6761E49A15ED.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now