Levi's Vintage Clothing

[bbaquiran]

Moar pics...

[electrum]

Are any LVC products EXACT replicas of the original jean that they are suppose to represent? I mean have Levi's historians and designers actually studied the original composition of the materials and manufacturing processes in a detailed SCIENTIFIC way and REPLICATED those materials and manufacturing processes to produce LVC. It would be interesting to know if the ORIGINAL processes and materials such as cotton processing(organic, unbleaced, bleached?), composition of waxes/resins used to treat thread creating the rigid effect, different fabric weights, composition of metal alloys, composition of natural and synthetic dyes used in different eras, looming techniques, etc., are in fact the SAME used in LVC reproductions. Or is Levi's simply focused only on recreating an accurate representation of the original DESIGN using the same generic modern materials and manufacturing processes that everyone else uses in the industry to produce a low cost garment for maximized profits. Perhaps it is impossible to recreate an EXACT replica using modern technology and high labor costs. Thoughts anyone............

[Paul T]

Are any LVC products EXACT replicas of the original jean that they are suppose to represent? I mean have Levi's historians and designers actually studied the original composition of the materials and manufacturing processes in a detailed SCIENTIFIC way and REPLICATED those materials and manufacturing processes to produce LVC.... or is Levi's simply focused only on recreating an accurate representation of the original DESIGN using the same generic modern materials and manufacturing processes that everyone else uses in the industry to produce a low cost garment for maximized profits.

I am puzzled by this question, when you're the guy who complained that Levi's didn't make the 1901 in 14oz. We pointed out that they made them in 9oz, because that was the weight of the originals.

Again, if you look at the 501 thread, you'll notice how the denim of practically every LVC 501, up to the 1947, differs from its predecessors. Each is spec'd differently; practically every fabric wears differently. Today I soaked a pair of 1890 repros; i was surprised how the denim differs quite significantly from the 1901 repros; a different colour, a different texture, different selvage. The pockets are a different shape; the stitching is different; the shape is different (higher rise); the rivets are different (flat-topped on the earlier versions).

SO the answer to your question is yes, LVC are replicas of classic Levi's jeans, each based on originals that they have deconstructed, which are in some cases spookily exact . As you have seen above, with the 333, it's obvious that LVC go to extreme lengths to replicate a fabric of a long-forgotten, cheap jean... in fact, the kind of one-off quirky original that few Japanese companies would bother to touch, because they tend to favor contstantly repro-ing the same jeans. Which happened to be designed by Levi's.

Do LVC often fuck up? The answer is in this thread, again and again; errors on the 201 a few years ago, the 1901 this year, so, yes, quite often. Is the line subject to the whim of a large internaitonal company, who will be motivated one year, and not so much the next? Yes. Does all of their line display the loving attention to detail and superb fabrics of the best jeans from, say, Warehouse, Samurai or the best Sugar Cane? No, not all of it does. But much of it does. Over the next few years, there are several jeans by Japanese companies, like the ones mentioned above, that I plan to buy as projects. But if they weren't available, there are enough good, different 501, 201, 333 and other replicas available from LVC to last me, and anyone else, a lifetime.

[Paul T]

are the 333s available anywear? Looks great (as said at the first post), need to have!

Where are you?

Doshaburi have them, no idea if they are available mail order:

http://doshaburi.shop.multilingualcart.com/goods.php?lang_id=ja&goods_id=196

They're in stock in Cinch, London. I THINK they're pricey, £145, which will be $290. I would guess that in the US they will b 10 per cent cheaper, if available, due to taxes. PM me if you think I can help.

[mikedbt5]

Paul , kudos to you .

As an aside I would be interested in your opinion of the current season s501xx . I am ' retiring ' my current linep for various reaons (weightgain being one) 44s are appealing although I am considering sizing x2 on 47s . Gravitaitng between these and the 44 Lee 101 .

[radical_radish]

are the 333s available anywear? Looks great (as said at the first post), need to have!

Also available here:

http://eu.levi.com/CollectionsLevisVintageClothingGuys/333000001/-333-Jean----

[electrum]

I am puzzled by this question, when you're the guy who complained that Levi's didn't make the 1901 in 14oz. We pointed out that they made them in 9oz, because that was the weight of the originals.

Again, if you look at the 501 thread, you'll notice how the denim of practically every LVC 501, up to the 1947, differs from its predecessors. Each is spec'd differently; practically every fabric wears differently. Today I soaked a pair of 1890 repros; i was surprised how the denim differs quite significantly from the 1901 repros; a different colour, a different texture, different selvage. The pockets are a different shape; the stitching is different; the shape is different (higher rise); the rivets are different (flat-topped on the earlier versions).

SO the answer to your question is yes, LVC are replicas of classic Levi's jeans, each based on originals that they have deconstructed, which are in some cases spookily exact . As you have seen above, with the 333, it's obvious that LVC go to extreme lengths to replicate a fabric of a long-forgotten, cheap jean... in fact, the kind of one-off quirky original that few Japanese companies would bother to touch, because they tend to favor contstantly repro-ing the same jeans. Which happened to be designed by Levi's.

Do LVC often fuck up? The answer is in this thread, again and again; errors on the 201 a few years ago, the 1901 this year, so, yes, quite often. Is the line subject to the whim of a large internaitonal company, who will be motivated one year, and not so much the next? Yes. Does all of their line display the loving attention to detail and superb fabrics of the best jeans from, say, Warehouse, Samurai or the best Sugar Cane? No, not all of it does. But much of it does. Over the next few years, there are several jeans by Japanese companies, like the ones mentioned above, that I plan to buy as projects. But if they weren't available, there are enough good, different 501, 201, 333 and other replicas available from LVC to last me, and anyone else, a lifetime.

Paul youshouldn't be 'puzzled' by my question. After all, I'm the same person who thought that the slubby texture on my '73's were defective snags. The same person who swore that I use to own a pair of '47 repos in the late '70's(who can forget that classic). The same person who thought my '33's where exact museum repros when they are missing the NRA tag. And yes, the same person who went on a wild goose chase for phantom 14oz. 1901, which incidentally Levi's still claims are real!! I'm a LVC newbie. As such, it's my birthright to ask puzzling questions and/or make rediculous comments. I'm willing to eat crow now and then as long as I learn something and I'm learning.

Anyway, the point of my post was to encourage some discussion about how the vault pieces were originally manufactured and what ingredients were originally used and (more importantly) how Levi's today manages to sucessfully duplicate something that cannot be duplicated exactly using modern technology and labor. It seems that the main topic of discussion throughout this forum is always about design issues, shrinkage, sizing or availability. I thought that since you and others on this board have direct contact w/Levi's historians and designers, perhaps you guys could compare in detail how Levi's creates LVC using modern materials and techniques to the materials and techniques of the past. One question I haveis; what waxes and/or resin were used to make the cotton yarn move freely through the looms that created the ultra rigid old denim and what does Levi's use today to make their rigid denim? All "rigid" LVC jeans I've purchased with the exception of my '33's where in no way rigid.

Thanks and sorrry for another one of my long-winded posts : )

[hysteric]

Paul youshouldn't be 'puzzled' by my question. After all, I'm the same person who thought that the slubby texture on my '73's were defective snags. The same person who swore that I use to own a pair of '47 repos in the late '70's(who can forget that classic). The same person who thought my '33's where exact museum repros when they are missing the NRA tag. And yes, the same person who went on a wild goose chase for phantom 14oz. 1901, which incidentally Levi's still claims are real!! I'm a LVC newbie. As such, it's my birthright to ask puzzling questions and/or make rediculous comments. I'm willing to eat crow now and then as long as I learn something and I'm learning.

Anyway, the point of my post was to encourage some discussion about how the vault pieces were originally manufactured and what ingredients were originally used and (more importantly) how Levi's today manages to sucessfully duplicate something that cannot be duplicated exactly using modern technology and labor. It seems that the main topic of discussion throughout this forum is always about design issues, shrinkage, sizing or availability. I thought that since you and others on this board have direct contact w/Levi's historians and designers, perhaps you guys could compare in detail how Levi's creates LVC using modern materials and techniques to the materials and techniques of the past. One question I haveis; what waxes and/or resin were used to make the cotton yarn move freely through the looms that created the ultra rigid old denim and what does Levi's use today to make their rigid denim? All "rigid" LVC jeans I've purchased with the exception of my '33's where in no way rigid.

Thanks and sorrry for another one of my long-winded posts : )

jesus you take the term rigid to literally, go buy yourself some starch, generally denim under 14 oz's is pretty soft due to its thinness, and 201's,37's,55's ,47's all seemed pretty "rigid" to me

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

electrum is right about the stiffness of the denim, if you ever had original vintage levis your hand, in my case a pair of 646s, 606s you feel the difference... but all in all I prefer LVCs for their good price and quality, no jeans can reach my 2005 S501xx, no!

[Paul T]

Paul , kudos to you .

As an aside I would be interested in your opinion of the current season s501xx . I am ' retiring ' my current linep for various reaons (weightgain being one) 44s are appealing although I am considering sizing x2 on 47s . Gravitaitng between these and the 44 Lee 101 .

Personally, if I'd just come from a period of trying a lot of LVC, I'd go for the Lees, they are great repros, especially at japanese prices (the Edwin, Real McCoy and Warehouse versions are all excellent, search in the Lee thread for more info). One of the reason i'm trying a lot of LVC is because I'm coming from 8-9 years of mainly wearing Lee, because they were the best repros once the originals dried up, before LVC really got going. But for the current LVC, the 44, 47 and 55 all look great to me.

.. if you ever had original vintage levis your hand, in my case a pair of 646s, 606s you feel the difference... )

Those are Sanforized jeans I believe, and definitely feel stiffer. Sanofrizing involves running the fabric through rollers to stabilize it, which makes the denim feel stiffer and more crisp (and starch or other sizing is perhaps added more often to sanforized jeans) . I've fondled a pair of tagged original 55s, and they didn't feel much different to the current LVC 55 repros.

There is variation from model to model and year to year, though, but I would guess that most of it is simply the amount of starch they've retained, which probably even depends on things like atmospheric factors. Of course the earlier models simply feel less stiff because they're thinner fabric, altho' I'm wearing a pair of 1890s which still feel pretty rigid after a soak, very little difference in crispness from, say, a pair of Samurais.

The Edwin-made Lee (and the previous Euro reissues) do retain that lovely stiff, crisp feel, again because they're Sanforized, well worth checking out.

...what waxes and/or resin were used to make the cotton yarn move freely through the looms that created the ultra rigid old denim and what does Levi's use today to make their rigid denim?

As far as I know, Cone (and the Japanese companies who, in general, make the lighter weight denim) still use mainly starch, which can be added before looming. Look at the later stages of the 'Selvage, setting the record straight' thread, which has great info on this and other subjects from ringring, takashi, neilfuji and others.

Oh and, contrary to the legend about ultra-rigid old denim, my understanding is that it's Sanforized, OE or wideloom denim, that's probably the most 'stiff'. A soak in starch, available even from supermarkets like Sainsbury's, will add that stiffness you're yearning for.

[mikedbt5]

Thanks ,. Thought these might interest you , see belw . If Levis were to repro any jean of my choice this would be the one !!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-LEVI-big-E-LEVIS-JEANS-REDLINE-1954-MINT-34x32_W0QQitemZ170228909589QQihZ007QQcategoryZ52392QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[erbs]

Thanks ,. Thought these might interest you , see belw . If Levis were to repro any jean of my choice this would be the one !!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-LEVI-big-E-LEVIS-JEANS-REDLINE-1954-MINT-34x32_W0QQitemZ170228909589QQihZ007QQcategoryZ52392QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

These are wonderful. I think that there is a '54 repro in the Japanese LVC collection, but it would be great to have one made in the USA.

[Shorty Long]

Never seen these before...seem to be Japan exclusive.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Levis-1880-Nevada-jeans-501-big-E-Rigid-Special-Levis_W0QQitemZ330243049153QQihZ014QQcategoryZ156949QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Charlie Delta]

^Someone beat you to it...

Thought I share this rather costly pair images on this thread...

Anyone needs leather suspenders?

[Shorty Long]

oops...many apologies

[Shorty Long]

Does anyone have any info for the Fall '08 collection??

[Charlie Delta]

I have and I'll try to get my lazy ass in gear and scan the catalogue this week.

[Paul T]

I've updated the visual guide, added photos of the 1890 jeans (which I'm wearing for the first time this weekend), and added better photos of the 1901 jeans, now washed. I'll add photos of the 1955 once I've soaked my new pair... which I bought actual size, but which will still not be too tight, until they've had a hot wash at least.

DO take a look thru the thread folks & let me know if anything's not clear, I suspect a couple of facts are out of date (like the lack of a raw Nevada, which has just appeared in this thread...)

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=34010

[modual]

Paul as you appear to be the resident lvc expert could you post up what sizes you wear for the various models. I think this would help novices like me when selecting what size to buy online as lvc semms to be so hit and miss. I'm specifically interested in 501 1937 , 1944 , 1947, 1955 and 1967 505 and 201. Also could you specify whether you're wearing them high on the waist or lower on the hips. Help appreciated

[Dick Danger]

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

Paul T, these 1890s are really really nice, the dark denim, the unique flat rivets... but there´s no chance at all to get em anywhere in a small size, is there!?

[Paul T]

Paul T, these 1890s are really really nice, the dark denim, the unique flat rivets... but there´s no chance at all to get em anywhere in a small size, is there!?

I just happened to see these on Yoox in a weak moment; $100 for a 32/32. They seem to have none in now but it might be worth keeping an eye on them. THanks to Skeese for spotting them.

At a time when you could only get the 1894, I really wanted the Nevada. Now it's all Nevada replicas I really like these, particularly the small pockets. They make great lounging-around-in-the-summer jeans. They feel distinctly heavier than the 1901 although they're spec'd as the same weight - maybe that's simply the size or starch left after the half-hour bath I took in them. Reminder to self: must clean bath-tub.

[mickolakis]

I have a pair of the cotton duck Levi's Waist Overalls and over the years they've lost a couple of buttons on the fly, as the buttons are very sharp and tend to cut through the thread.

Does anyone have any idea where I might be able to get replacement buttons, I had a trawl trhough Levi's customer service pages but couldn't really find anything.

Thanks

[Charlie Delta]

I don't know where you are located, but some Levi's flagship stores might be able to put new buttons in for you.

But if I were you I would just reinforce the fabric and sew some new buttons on myself. More in style with the pants...

[lenn]

I have a pair of the cotton duck Levi's Waist Overalls and over the years they've lost a couple of buttons on the fly, as the buttons are very sharp and tend to cut through the thread.

Does anyone have any idea where I might be able to get replacement buttons, I had a trawl trhough Levi's customer service pages but couldn't really find anything.

Thanks

please post some pics of those pants!

[Charlie Delta]

Yah, and that too!

[Skeese]

I just happened to see these on Yoox in a weak moment; $100 for a 32/32. They seem to have none in now but it might be worth keeping an eye on them. THanks to Skeese for spotting them.

I didn't get those since i wasn't sure about the size, but they went in an instant.

[simontuntelder]

Weren't you looking for this, Cotton Duck? http://cgi.ebay.fr/Levis-BIG-E-LVC-First-Jeans-Jacket-1870-Size-46_W0QQitemZ150259295027QQihZ005QQcategoryZ3002QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Charlie Delta]

O mine got!

[horriblyjollyjinx]

Weren't you looking for this, Cotton Duck? http://cgi.ebay.fr/Levis-BIG-E-LVC-First-Jeans-Jacket-1870-Size-46_W0QQitemZ150259295027QQihZ005QQcategoryZ3002QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

they have one of these at SOLO I think.

Last chance for questions to Levi's by the way.