Levi's Vintage Clothing

[Busted Seam]

The 1902 201 has mostly roundtop rivets - they're obvkously hand-applied and vary, some are float; the 1900s 501 mostly have the flat top. The 1920s 501 has round top.

Would be great if someone can post more photos, specially of the 201 watch pocket.

I wonder if they are actually a different design, or whether they way they were applied changed?

.

[vivaloschet]

Dis wan. http://www.marvins-jp.com/

HAWT DANG WHAT KICK ASS BLUE JEANS DER R DER.

Thank you very much.

[Dr_Heech]

The 1920s 501 has round top.

Looking at pictures of old Levi's, and from discussions with various vintage clothing dealers in the past, it seems that the flat top rivets were used on the 501 up until the late 1920's, then the round top rivet was introduced. (I think someone guesstamated that it was 1928)

It was around the same time the denim weight changed from 9oz to 10oz, and the redline on the selvedge seam was introduced by cone.

[fardin]

just check the marvin site, there some 1920s pairs and some other realy cool stuff, plus close ups. i like the 1890 201 and the ones from 1902

[Dr_Heech]

just check the marvin site, there some 1920s pairs and some other realy cool stuff, plus close ups. i like the 1890 201 and the ones from 1902

Fardin .. Hundred Buyer is another good site for old stuff - although to be honest, most of the 20's/30's 501's are sold. but there are still some good pics of them, last time I looked.

[Dr_Heech]

Actually, scrap that suggestion. Just been on the site and there is nothing like the amount of stock they used to have.

But Marvins is great !!

[fardin]

since i live in the denim desert here in ausria i would love to see some real vintage jeans. hope i will when i get to new york in august. maybe stock vintage or strongarm have some. but i guess the real place to go will be japan.

[airfrogusmc]

Looking at pictures of old Levi's, and from discussions with various vintage clothing dealers in the past, it seems that the flat top rivets were used on the 501 up until the late 1920's, then the round top rivet was introduced. (I think someone guesstamated that it was 1928)

It was around the same time the denim weight changed from 9oz to 10oz, and the redline on the selvedge seam was introduced by cone.

Thanks for the info Doc. I actually thought the round top was earlier.

[RRLselvageDenim]

Heads up

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180390972146&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

[Dr_Heech]

Thanks for the info Doc. I actually thought the round top was earlier.

AF,

You could be right, I'm only going on various bits of info gained from 'others' in the know over the years, plus trawling through thousands of pics..etc. I was also very privaledged to handle a pair from the first world war (what would now be considered as the 1901-1921 501), but cant remember the rivet details - long time ago.

I did ask Lynn Downey a while back but even she had to conclude that it was nigh impossible to define actual period due to so many crossover examples.

Those 1922 Lvc japan look really nice though, and those hammered style flat top rivets are just the cherry on the top!

Come on Lvc US, bring out a raw 22 ya bastaadz!!

[Dr_Heech]

since i live in the denim desert here in ausria i would love to see some real vintage jeans. hope i will when i get to new york in august. maybe stock vintage or strongarm have some. but i guess the real place to go will be japan.

Fardin, get some pics please!

[Busted Seam]

Email from Paul T:

"From the archives info, Lynn Downey believes the change in the look of the rivets comes in the 20s, as Dr Heech suspected. The rivet desgin stayed the same, but they switched from using manual to machine application. That's also why the rivets on some of the earlier jeans look much like the later ones, as it simply depended on how uch pressure they used.

If your early jeans feature the wrong rivets, simply bash them with a hammer.

Please also ask Dr Heech to stop asking such difficutl questions! I haven't had chance to look at the waistband question, but the later design of the two he posted IIRC involves a chainstitch at the waistband - I believe these appeared around 1920, so I think the later desgin came in roughly the same time as the chainstitched hems.

Please also ask Dr Heech, if he's in the UK, what the fuck time does he go to bed? I look at SuFu when I start work around 5am and he's often posted before I get up!"

[crownzip]

hi fardin,

when you come to NYC send me an email. it'd be cool to meet up and talk denim. in addition to stock and strongarm there are a couple of other places to check out.

since i live in the denim desert here in ausria i would love to see some real vintage jeans. hope i will when i get to new york in august. maybe stock vintage or strongarm have some. but i guess the real place to go will be japan.

[Dr_Heech]

[quote name=Busted Seam;

Please also ask Dr Heech' date=' if he's in the UK, what the fuck time does he go to bed? I look at SuFu when I start work around 5am and he's often posted before I get up!"[/quote]

LoL !!

Hi, I actually start work at 6am, but at the moment I seem to wake up around 4.40 am, but I'm ususally in bed around 9.30-10pmish, so by 5am I've had enough sleep. Hope that clears things up a bit.

More difficult questions to come....

[TallyHo]

not sure if this is fully appropriate, as it's not LVC (mods delete if necessary)...i know DrHeech is interested though. cross-post from Vintage Sweatshirts thread:

lookie what i found:

funny thing is i found this in a vintage store very shortly after that original post, but it's actually very small - almost kids sized - so i didn't buy it. not long after, i decided that was stupid and went back and bought it (it was only marked at $25, but i was buying it with a vintage harmon kardon stereo receiver and dude just threw it in for free!). gave it to my lady and it fits her perfectly. maybe i'll snag some fit pics...

[Dr_Heech]

Thanks,

Takes me back to me school days (..well, school holidays anyway).

+ rep for you !!

[LimonRouge]

Yesterday I purchased a pair of LVC 1954 501s. Thing is, I'm quite new to denim so need a bit of help or advice regarding the washing part. I bought a size 32x32 waist (since it's shrink to fit), I'm normally a size 30x32, however, I mucked up with the sizing as I didn't realise at the time that the zip will buckle up after the wash. Not a major problem, but it's something I'd rather avoid. So this is what I'd like to do now when washing them first time:

1. Avoid any pre-mature fades from the washing

2. Minimise creases from wash

3. Somehow avoid the zip from buckling up or at least limit it

4. Avoid any indigo loss, I really like my jeans dark and don't want it loosing a huge heap of colour after the first wash, I know it will inevitably loose some bit of colour, but I want to make sure it's minimal

5. Make sure it doesn't shrink more than about 1" in the waist so it becomes too tight

I'd planned on hand washing it without detergent in hot water (about 40 degrees, or whatever is the hottest coming out of the tap), is this the best thing to do for the first wash? If so, about how long do you normally soak it for? And in the process, what could I do to limit the things mentioned above? I've been having a look around and it seems like there's no one way of doing it as everyone has their own ways, but perhaps someone with the same pair or similar can share their bit of advice. Anyway, thanks in advance, appreciate just any bit of advice really.

Best regards,

Dean

[Leonard Leroy]

My 55s turning out a lot more contrast than I thought they would.

[erk]

Yesterday I purchased a pair of LVC 1954 501s. Thing is, I'm quite new to denim so need a bit of help or advice regarding the washing part. I bought a size 32x32 waist (since it's shrink to fit), I'm normally a size 30x32, however, I mucked up with the sizing as I didn't realise at the time that the zip will buckle up after the wash. Not a major problem, but it's something I'd rather avoid. So this is what I'd like to do now when washing them first time:

1. Avoid any pre-mature fades from the washing

2. Minimise creases from wash

3. Somehow avoid the zip from buckling up or at least limit it

4. Avoid any indigo loss, I really like my jeans dark and don't want it loosing a huge heap of colour after the first wash, I know it will inevitably loose some bit of colour, but I want to make sure it's minimal

5. Make sure it doesn't shrink more than about 1" in the waist so it becomes too tight

I'd planned on hand washing it without detergent in hot water (about 40 degrees, or whatever is the hottest coming out of the tap), is this the best thing to do for the first wash? If so, about how long do you normally soak it for? And in the process, what could I do to limit the things mentioned above? I've been having a look around and it seems like there's no one way of doing it as everyone has their own ways, but perhaps someone with the same pair or similar can share their bit of advice. Anyway, thanks in advance, appreciate just any bit of advice really.

Best regards,

Dean

usually I just soak them in the hottest water I can get out of the tap. no agitation, just sittin there. thats when I first get them.

I'm pretty sure you will get more shrinkage if you do a warmish hand wash.

for what you're talking about I'd say do a warm handwash. If you do hot you will lose a lot of indigo. I dont think you have to worry about your waist, if you are a 30, then the 32 will be completely fine after many washes. your problem will be that you didn't size up in the length. if you are a 30x32 your pants are going to end up being 30x29-30 and will most likely be too short. if you havent soaked them yet, i'd take them back and get a 32x34.

theres nothing you can do about the buckling zipper.

to minimize premature fading and colorloss - wash inside out. then the creases dont matter.

[Dr_Heech]

You could do what airfrog does, wear 'em raw for 6 months, warm soak, then 3 months wear, then soak..etc. At least the zip would get plenty of action and may ease it into its new shape.

They're shrink-to-fit, but the real fitting part is the gentle stretching post soak (or wash) that matters IMO.

Or you could sell them and look for a pair of 551ZXX's, which have a 3%, rather than 10% overall shrinkage.

[Busted Seam]

Traditional advice if you want to minimse shrinkage of STF is simply to soak and wash cold - below 30 degrees.

[ThomasK]

Heres my 55s. The denim is much different than my 33s. My 55s are from fall 06 and are really nice. Great denim. The 33s have 10 oz raw denim (the correct weight) about 12 oz now but I wouldn't call them flimsy. They're tough as nails, just not as heavy. My 55s were 12 oz raw 14.5 or so now.

They look a ton better now.

Hi,

how did you wash them? kinda normally? How hot, how often, with or without detergent? In a normal mashine?

Thanks

[Dr_Heech]

Traditional advice if you want to minimse shrinkage of STF is simply to soak and wash cold - below 30 degrees.

..or , you could go really traditional and just walk into the nearest creek... or just sit in a horsetrough.

[LimonRouge]

usually I just soak them in the hottest water I can get out of the tap. no agitation, just sittin there. thats when I first get them.

I'm pretty sure you will get more shrinkage if you do a warmish hand wash.

for what you're talking about I'd say do a warm handwash. If you do hot you will lose a lot of indigo. I dont think you have to worry about your waist, if you are a 30, then the 32 will be completely fine after many washes. your problem will be that you didn't size up in the length. if you are a 30x32 your pants are going to end up being 30x29-30 and will most likely be too short. if you havent soaked them yet, i'd take them back and get a 32x34.

theres nothing you can do about the buckling zipper.

to minimize premature fading and colorloss - wash inside out. then the creases dont matter.

Thanks, I think 29-30 would be fine, I'm not true to a 32 size anyway. Will there be a shitload of colourloss the first time I wash them? I hope it won't be too noticable, I need to wash them anyway, inside out as you said, cheers for the help.

You could do what airfrog does, wear 'em raw for 6 months, warm soak, then 3 months wear, then soak..etc. At least the zip would get plenty of action and may ease it into its new shape.

They're shrink-to-fit, but the real fitting part is the gentle stretching post soak (or wash) that matters IMO.

Or you could sell them and look for a pair of 551ZXX's, which have a 3%, rather than 10% overall shrinkage.

That would have been a good option, I love these jeans though. They need some desperate shrinkage though. will the zip normally buckle a rediculous amount or is it just a tiny bit in the first wash? Well anyway, thanks for the suggestions.

[rnrswitch]

To keep the zipper from buckling too much soak with the zipper up. This should prevent some buckling.

[airfrogusmc]

Hi,

how did you wash them? kinda normally? How hot, how often, with or without detergent? In a normal mashine?

Thanks

These went 4 months or maybe a bit more without a soak. I think I took this about 6 months into the process and they had 1 cold soak.

[erk]

. Will there be a shitload of colourloss the first time I wash them? I hope it won't be too noticable, I need to wash them anyway, inside out as you said, cheers for the help.

I'm thinking if you do a cold or warmish wash either on gentle in the machine or by hand you wont see much noticeable indigo loss but you WILL see plenty of shrinkage. the water will turn really blue, but it wont be bad when you get them out.

are you saying that your inseam is 29-30? if so that should work.

To keep the zipper from buckling too much soak with the zipper up. This should prevent some buckling.

thats a great idea, I guess you learned that when wearing your Samurai 505s? I've never worn a pair of stf zipper jeans, and now I'm totally hooked on the button fly.

[airfrogusmc]

Just wear'm and you wont have any color loss except in the high wear areas. The blue in the water is color loss.

[rnrswitch]

thats a great idea, I guess you learned that when wearing your Samurai 505s? I've never worn a pair of stf zipper jeans, and now I'm totally hooked on the button fly.

Yeah, actually I believe Gordon told me to soak with the zipper up when I bought the jeans. (Knowledgeable guy, that Gordon) I like zippers as well, but I think zippers have one massive drawback. When they age and rust they become useless. This hasn't happened to a single pair of jeans that I own with a zipper yet. On the other hand when buttons age and rust they can still be useful. Even if the button holes become to large they can easily be fixed. Fixing the zipper on an old pair of jeans requires a replacement. That is no easy task.

[Dr_Heech]

Limon,

What zipper do they use on the '54 501Z ?

On the originals they used Conmar and Gripper, but on my 551Z's the zipper is small + unmarked.

(I think some of the repro Lee's have a Gripper-zipper)

Another example of Lvc cost cutting?