Acronym.

[piece keeper]

2 hours ago, mariahscarry said:

I'll quote these two parts.

The pattern-making and articulation does NOT set acronym apart, there are actually many brands that execute exactly what ACR achieves. And almost all designs used by ACR are not original, they are inspired by past military/workwear garments which continue to inspire many other brands as well. So to say it "sets ACR apart" is naive. And also to say it's naked to the eye is obviously apparent, isn't that why we're all on this page in the first place? is because we share the same eye for technical attention that E does.

It's silly to say that because a design isn't original means it's not set apart. You gonna tell me the car seats you maybe work on don't set it apart from a Honda Civic's just because they're both car seats?  An Acronym BDU is going to be way different than a military standard issue BDU. C'mon now.

And yeah when I refer to "others" I generally mean people not on sufu...obviously people here are more in-tune with garments but I'm more referring to the average HB reader.

2 hours ago, mariahscarry said:

Something I didn't put in my first post, but you basically just highlighted it perfectly for me to touch on, is that the J1E has no new innovation(Hat excluded but...LOL). It's literally an update where E is attempting to just expand further on where the J1A design fails. And that being said, it's still the same pockets/zippers/systems maybe arranged in a more accessible and convenient way, but that somehow took almost 20 years to finally figure out? and oh also costs over $2,000...

Often innovation is iterative, and rarely a huge jump. I think most designers worth their salt understand this. Plus, the fact that it took 20 years discounts every other J1 in between...and sometimes you have to wait for other industries to innovate as well, e.g. the QuickFree zipper seems like it came out ~2018? And saying "took almost 20 years to finally figure out" is facile--you can say "finally" for anything with the benefit of hindsight.

[Yiruma]

Can you change HTS code for orders shipped via DHL after it's been cleared from customs? Just got slapped with a 27.9% DHL invoice for P10 shipped from Coevo. zzzzz If not, I'll just bite the bullet

[Orientalq]

2 hours ago, Flipflop214 said:

lol, no one gets a Lambo for its interior cmon breh

To be fair Lambo interior design is pretty spot on... You have to be pretty good at design (and Italian..?) to work for Lamborghini so fundamentally there's little to doubt him here for. 

That said Errolson is definitely not going all out and "innovating" everything for the sake of heritage. It's been a big foundation for Acronym design in general. The last thing we need is another test mechanic like SOLARPOWERTECHSUSTAINABLESIGNALING® only for it to go out of fashion. The goal is to make something that lasts (at least that's what he's preaching with all that "not buying ACR is more ACR than ACR nonsense").

[drgitlin]

17 hours ago, mariahscarry said:

I'm an interior designer at Lamborghini..

Oh yeah? Where is Centro Stile based? 

Edited May 12, 2020 by drgitlin

[Inkinsurgent]

1 hour ago, drgitlin said:

Oh yeah? Where is Centro Stile based? 

you tell me about an ambush? i ambush you with a cup of coffee! 

[beepy]

For an even more direct comparison, a Tilak (acrnm’s old manufacturer) gtx jacket is $400.

[solo1]

12 hours ago, piece keeper said:

The pattern-making and articulation is what really sets ACR apart, but these are technical details that are largely "invisible" to the naked eye, and even more so to the consumer that has no idea about garment construction to begin with. That's why you get kids that say it's over-priced.  

Unless you are a patternmaker, or someone with connections/ heavy experience in apparel manufacturing  -- justifying the price by garment construction is pure speculation. Believing the garment is actually extremely costly to be produced to rationalize the fact that it is expensive for you to buy.  

As @beepy mentioned, Tilak coats that were previously made in the same exact factory as ACR's with identical construction in many cases, and Poutnik's GTX line was/is still sub  $500.  Yes other factors affect price, but not so much that ACR's jackets should be anywhere close to 3-4X Tilak's 

Funfact -- most of acr's cropped pants over the years (p17, p23 , p25, p27) can be made in a small fraction of the time it takes to produce most of their jackets, but are still around the 1100-1200 mark. Simple patterns do not equal a proportionately lower priced product.  We are paying the large upcharge on the fact that it is Acronym, not the complex garment construction 

[owetoe540]

Yes we are all paying a huge markup because it is ACRMN plain and simple. Just like Louis Vuitton for instance anything they do not sell in their stores they literally burn rather than markdown or put on sale so people will pay that insanely high markup. 
But there is that "exclusivity" no one touched on. I myself do like the fact that when I walk out of the house with a certain item on knowing I will more than likely be the only one I encounter wearing that item. I like that. 

[Inkinsurgent]

Construction/raw material price/living wages all have exactly zero to do with why an ACR piece is three to four times more expensive than comparable items.

The market supports these prices and after years of being niche, ACR is hype and E is (rightfully) making bank.

[JoseRizal]

Man the conversation here reminds me when Visvim prices went bananas. Buy what you like folks as long as your wallet can support it. Cheers

[Inkinsurgent]

Yeah his own rationalisation isn't helping. I don't see what's so bad about going "i invested my life in this company, fashion is a fickle thing, make hay while the sun shines."

However: the price point they're at allows them certain affordances in construction that you otherwise wouldn't bother with. I think the acr aesthetic is very much about going beyond what other brands would see as a point of diminishing returns. There are small construction details even in a pair of P10 pants that really don't offer much from a practical perspective but very much emphasise what an ACR item projects. This is also a point where i feel Veilance and ACR diverged over the years: AV showcases their technical prowess through minimalism in features and construction, whereas ACR showcases theirs through maximalism. Maybe this is also what part of the "practical VS expensive" argument hinges on: regardless of whether you feel ACR features add actual purpose over more stripped down solutions, you can certainly see where the ideas, effort and innovation are applied. It really is more the fetishisation of purpose than actual purpose, and i mean that as a good thing.

[dixonschneider]

Yet there are lots and lots of posts on the internet asking for your "affordable" acrnm alternatives but simply none of them gets it quite on a level like the original. In the end you get something with a very unique design DNA and that is what enables such high price points for them and probably why most people buy it in the first place, with the "functionality" as added benefit.

Also the J1A is not a good example if you want to talk about "innovation" (meaning, completely new products) because it is reworked in iterations for 20 years now. Why not look at the current lineup instead? J82 and J84, very unique and new models, maybe with less "function" in terms of pockets etc. but still a very fresh design you won't find anywhere else. Speaking of functionality, the pockets on the (also new) P35-DS are really something else - you have like 11 of them and most are also really spacious, all of this without looking like a cargo pant at all.

And yes, J1L/J47 and P10 are all nothing new but then again, you can't re-invent the wheel on all models every season. Some people are also glad about re-iterations because they missed previous seasons and don't want to pay premium re-sell on used items.

 

[Rough Sleeper]

16 minutes ago, JoseRizal said:

Man the conversation here reminds me when Visvim prices went bananas. Buy what you like folks as long as your wallet can support it. Cheers

At least Hiroki was honest lol

 

[beepy]

2 minutes ago, Inkinsurgent said:

It really is more the fetishisation of purpose than actual purpose, and i mean that as a good thing.

This (fetishization) is 100% the driving factor behind the appeal of acrnm and any other collector niche object. This knife blade is super gold powdered steal. This guitar pedal has a nanotech molecular junction. This jacket can be taken off while wearing a seatbelt. The base purpose can be achieved by simpler means, but that’s for the normies. 

 

And  literally had started writing a comment when this was still about prices that acrnm is the new visvim.

[SlackJackflack]

Sorry to interrupt current conversation but update on J84-S Two Way Zip and Auxzip

Quote

Hi,

 

Thank you for ordering with ACRONYM® and thanks for pointing out the missing information.

 

Unfortunately, sometimes the samples used for the photo shooting are subject to changes afterwards. Please refer to the phrase on the bottom of the product page:

 

© Acronym® GmbH. All rights reserved. Subject to change without notice. 

Actual product may differ from images.

 

We hope this works for you and apologies for any inconvenience.

 

Kind regards,
ACRONYM® 

They have since updated the site removing any mention of a two way zip and added info about auxzip so at very least future buyers will be fully informed. While a two way zip is a nice feature, I can live without it but would have been nice for a jacket without all these extra features. To slightly contribute to the current convo, J84 doesn't have a long list of auxiliary features so the design of the jacket shines through IMO. 

[Willy19]

16 hours ago, Orientalq said:

Genuinely curious, what are the profit margins on ACR pieces (AKA how much does Errolson *or whoever also has a stake in the company* take home per J1A-GTKP sold)? I've heard speculators say that it's around 200 to 300% but that would mean it costs them around 400-500 to make a J1A. Is that even possible given the number of details on the jacket? How about operating costs (like the website, which has extremely compressed images that look terrible lol), customer service (maybe just Ian and some intern at the CZ factory), studio costs (Berlin ain't cheap), and lastly designing costs (Umit, Ian, and Errolson salaries)? 

I'm not a business-side expert, so it would interesting if anybody here could help try to break down the ACR business model, thanks.

 

5 hours ago, solo1 said:

Unless you are a patternmaker, or someone with connections/ heavy experience in apparel manufacturing  -- justifying the price by garment construction is pure speculation. Believing the garment is actually extremely costly to be produced to rationalize the fact that it is expensive for you to buy.  

As @beepy mentioned, Tilak coats that were previously made in the same exact factory as ACR's with identical construction in many cases, and Poutnik's GTX line was/is still sub  $500.  Yes other factors affect price, but not so much that ACR's jackets should be anywhere close to 3-4X Tilak's 

Funfact -- most of acr's cropped pants over the years (p17, p23 , p25, p27) can be made in a small fraction of the time it takes to produce most of their jackets, but are still around the 1100-1200 mark. Simple patterns do not equal a proportionately lower priced product.  We are paying the large upcharge on the fact that it is Acronym, not the complex garment construction 

IMO when it comes to price point, beside the cost or margin or development etc. Price is determine the value of Brand
You can make a simple social experiment try put two same items with same quality but one price is higher than another one and ask people to choose, average people will always take the expensive one because they believe it's more valuable

i believe if ACR sell at $500 it will sell like crazy and they can get a lot of money but how about the value of the brand itself, maybe we will see ACR like same other brand nothing interesting nothing luxury nothing exclusive

recently i watch MKBHD youtube about apple who sell a wheel for mac about $700, the point is why apple sell a wheel for that price even more expensive than the new iphone SE? the reason is to tell the consumer, apple is a brand that more valuable or luxury than any other brand

[JoseRizal]

^ *ding ding ding* We got ourselves a winner

[Rough Sleeper]

51 minutes ago, Willy19 said:

 recently i watch MKBHD youtube about apple who sell a wheel for mac about  $700 , the point is why apple sell a wheel for that price even more expensive than the new iphone SE? the reason is to tell the consumer, apple is a brand that more valuable or luxury than any  other brand   

I don't think this is fair comparison. Errolson just got greedy after seeing resale prices. Now hype is slowly dying and items are starting to sit on shelves. He can sell J1A, J36, J28, P10 forever, but people really 100% like what brand is doing now? Shit's got too lazy and too expensive at the same time. There will be always hardcore fans who will support the brand no matter what, just like with Visvim and I don't think Errolson will starve any time soon, but on the other hand it was worth it? Maybe he should've stopped at some point and put more effort into the brand instead of lying to customers about European salaries, moving production to China, new features etc? Acronym magic is gone for me, and maybe i'm not the only one:

[frenchbulldog]

On 7/12/2019 at 8:58 AM, NCiao said:

I’m 6’3”, 200lbs - just a little concerned on the length of the P32-S since the sizing charts look like it’s a bit shorter.

I'm not sure a screenshot of stock that released in the middle of a global pandemic makes the strongest case, especially since there is no indicator of inventory quantity. That said, SS20 is easily the most snoozable set of releases yet. J81 is meh and J84 is especially boring (sorry to those who bought both but what are you thinking) and I imagine will sit for some time. I've wanted a J33 for some time though…

[thatslapz]

I didn't realize so many people had access to Acronym's books. I must be doing something wrong.  

[moneytalks]

"materiality" lol SMH

[drgitlin]

Also, if you really are Lamborghini's interior designer, then the hexagons everywhere are played out, hiding the start button underneath a flip-top switch like it's a fighter plane is the automotive equivalent of wearing an Ed Hardy t-shirt, the UI on your infotainment system is utterly hideous, and those toggle switches were shit when Mini started doing them, they're still shit when you do them. 

Signed, a man who gets paid to drive and write about Lamborghinis.

Edited May 12, 2020 by drgitlin

[Nebulae]

why is that video 45 minutes long lol

[jeddyhsu]

Some chump paid over $500 for that 3/10 bs https://www.grailed.com/listings/14422524-acronym-acronym-3a-5ts-laminate

[mariahscarry]

12 minutes ago, drgitlin said:

Also, if you really are Lamborghini's interior designer, then the hexagons everywhere are played out, hiding the start button underneath a flip-top switch like it's a fighter plane is the automotive equivalent of wearing an Ed Hardy t-shirt, the UI on your infotainment system is utterly hideous, and those toggle switches were shit when Mini started doing them, they're still shit when you do them. 

Signed, a man who gets paid to drive and write about Lamborghinis.

I've only been with Lamborghini for close to a year now, and I am very soon leaving for a competitor. I will agree with everything you just said, it's actually why I was brought in. To help speculate where they were failing. Also, big things in 2022 from Lamborghini with ByBorre for all you shit talkers.

So no, I wasn't claiming I work for Lamborghini with a Lamborghini assplug lodged deep in my anal crevice the same way all you ACR diehards do I'm sure. (Only available on Subnet)

FlipFlop, I'm sure you'll gain more insight for Lamborghini interior once your dad dies and his full bank account is at your exposure. I'm assuming you still have a monthly credit limit until you're 50 years old? 

[moneytalks]

6 minutes ago, mariahscarry said:

I've only been with Lamborghini for close to a year now, and I am very soon leaving for a competitor. I will agree with everything you just said, it's actually why I was brought in. To help speculate where they were failing. Also, big things in 2022 from Lamborghini with ByBorre for all you shit talkers.

So no, I wasn't claiming I work for Lamborghini with a Lamborghini assplug lodged deep in my anal crevice the same way all you ACR diehards do I'm sure. (Only available on Subnet)

FlipFlop, I'm sure you'll gain more insight for Lamborghini interior once your dad dies and his full bank account is at your exposure. I'm assuming you still have a monthly credit limit until you're 50 years old? 

EDIT: 
also assuming that anyone that can afford acronym is using dad's credit card just reeks of salt and low self-esteem. try harder.

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by moneytalks

[eidolarr]

Look I don't give a fuck about cars either way, but no amount of explaining or shit talking will match flipflop's roast. this forum makes me laugh out loud like twice a year and that was one of them. know when to walk away, man.

[dreamboatjustsoul]

1 hour ago, Rough Sleeper said:

I don't think this is fair comparison. Errolson just got greedy after seeing resale prices.

 Acronym magic is gone for me, and maybe i'm not the only one:

 

It is quite a common trend that brands put 1-3k retail to expecting sale on 50% off. $1-2k for a jacket is stratospheric retail price for a designer brands. But E doesn't do sale (blatantly)

Greed is endemic in fashion, which is sad.

[Kamikaze]

1 hour ago, jeddyhsu said:

Some chump paid over $500 for that 3/10 bs https://www.grailed.com/listings/14422524-acronym-acronym-3a-5ts-laminate

is this the same bag that's been passed around to multiple people? feel like i keep seeing it for sale.

[frenchbulldog]

40 minutes ago, Kamikaze said:

is this the same bag that's been passed around to multiple people? feel like i keep seeing it for sale.

Imagine talking about this cooked as fuck bag for 45 minutes and then thinking others might be interested…