The Flat Head

[danisfake]

lookin good! they will definitely shrink a little more after another soak. wear em hard!

[ashkaun]

thanks I'm excited, I'm pretty sure these will be my only pair of jeans for the next like year or two. well, aside from the apc's i have right now, but those will go to party status, just so i dont have drunk people pukin on my denimz.

[reallypeacedoff]

I feel like there should be way more shrinking...I feel like maybe after I get them hemmed at sesf I should do another hot soak, maybe even hotter that time. I dunno.

They look good mate, they are new so they look rigid at the moment, once they settle down, you'll will f$%king love them.

Judging from your measurements, you could shrink the waist another 0.5". Just fold 'em up, put them in a large tupperware container and boil some water in a huge pot, and leave 'em for 45mins. That will shrink them!

[ashkaun]

haha thanks. I think the toughest part will be waiting till i can go down to sesf though.

what I don't get though is why my size 31's came with a 33 waist, but I don't mind since it turned out alright.

[LC_Miey]

nice fit ashkaun. I wish my bsp fits like yours instead mine look more on the skinny side..

regarding your question, they are cut to shrink FROM tag size, so pre-wash measurement are around the tagged size while some other models are cut oversize to shrink TO tagged size..

I know it can dent the ego when you are wearing size 28/29 in apc then have to size up to 33 in bsps . But if it makes you feel better, I wear size 31 on these where my other jeans are size 29

[ashkaun]

but the thing is, my bsps are size 31. and were apparently cut oversize to shrink TO tagged size. which is something I haven't noticed in any of the measurements anyone else posted.

I wear a size 27 in apc, so i knew I had to go to real sizes on these, but it's just confusing. all the other measurements matched up with what self edge said they would be. just the waist measurement was off by a bunch?

I dunno. I mean, the tag on the jeans posts the post-shrink inseam, so maybe the waist is post-shrink too? but that'd mean that the online measurements at self edge are wrong.

could anyone shed some light on this?

EDIT: self edge online measurements says they'd be waist 32. so that's a little bit less extreme. I mean, I'm probably just bad at measuring or something.

[panthermodern]

Depending on when you checked the measurements, they may have changed. Self Edge re-measures each restock.

My size 30s (from the first BSP run) were 30in in the waist when raw, but now I see the current size 30s are 31in in the waist.

[edmond]

go do another soak you didnt agitate them!

[reallypeacedoff]

LC_Miey and ashkaun. I just figured out the problem.

With BSPs, I usually recommend to go TTS to the pre-soak measurement. For instance, me being a 34" waist went with a tagged 34; because the pre-soak measurement was 34" as well. 3XXX denim shrinks and stretches a bunch thus the reasoning to my logic.

But if you notice, the new shipment has actually changed sizes. I bought my BSPs in October of last year, thus the reasoning stands. With the new shipment, I would actually buy a tagged 33 to get the same fit (almost, the LO would be slightly smaller which I would actually prefer). So ashkuan is right, it appears the "new" BSPs are shrink to tagged size (almost). I mean you can definitely get 1.5" of shrink in the waist with the 3XXX denim.

[mlyngard]

but the thing is, my bsps are size 31. and were apparently cut oversize to shrink TO tagged size.

could anyone shed some light on this?

EDIT: self edge online measurements says they'd be waist 32. so that's a little bit less extreme. I mean, I'm probably just bad at measuring or something.

Depending on when you checked the measurements, they may have changed. Self Edge re-measures each restock.

My size 30s (from the first BSP run) were 30in in the waist when raw, but now I see the current size 30s are 31in in the waist.

All FH should shrink to tagged size eventually, with the exception of BSP, which will shrink to ~ 1/2" less than tagged size, which is why sizing up one is sometimes done.

I found that both my FH didn't shrink fully the first hot soak. I've also read that many times here.

To pathermodern's point though, every batch can be different, and the shrink rate different between two pair form the same batch depending on where/how it's done.

Wear them a while and wash/soak again. I find denim needs the stretch from wearing to finally settle and fully shrink with a second wash.

I'm on the fence about immersion in boiling water, but a kettle full into the tub doesn't hurt.

[ashkaun]

go do another soak you didnt agitate them!

agitating helps shrink?

[/noob]

[LandoCal126]

This thread could use a little color...

[moykky]

agitating helps shrink?

[/noob]

Yes, that is correct. I actually had a long and interesting talk about the matter with one of the professors in our university. My english is little bit skimpy when talking about matters this technical but I'll try...

In cotton fibre the cellulose (chemical pulp) is formed of long polymer chains (paraller to the fibres). Those polymer chains can form two kinds of structures:

1. Crystalline parts, where polymer chains are in good order and close to each other forming strong (hydrogen)bonds.

2. Amorphic parts, where the the polymer chain order is not so disciplined and the hydrogen bonds that are connecting the chains to each other are much weaker.

Now, when washing the jeans (or any other cotton), inside it's fibre's microstructure, there will be some changes.

Water is absorbed to those amorphic parts breaking the hydrogen bonds.

Agitation, on the other hand bends the fibres thus breaking the bonds (even some of those in the crystalline parts) even more.

Now the broken polymer chains will move to new, tensionless (balanced) positions.

When the jeans are drying new hydrogen bonds are forming where the polymer chains are closest to each other. New bonds solidify the fibres which can be seen as shrinking (and also creases, wrinkles and so on).

So, when talking about "sanforized" jeans that means that the denim fabric is chemically treated so that the polymer chains in amorphic parts are affixed to a solid "washproof" network.

Raw denim (cotton) has more amorphic parts than washed / treated.

[aho]

^droppin that knowledge...lol my favorite post in a while!

[Paul T]

Excellent post. Repped. Are we talking about bonds within the chains? So the shrinking takes place within the polymer chains themselves? And how are they connected together?

And are the new bonds amorphic or crystalline? Sorry if my questions are naive, it's many years since I studied chemistry.

Sanforization uses steam, by the way. The fabric is stabilized as it shrinks with rubber rollers.

[dr.house]

Quick FHnoob question for the 1001 slimstraight:

I'm a regular 32", should I go for the 33" or the 32" RAW due to shrinking/stretching? Thanks!

[moykky]

Excellent post. Repped. Are we talking about bonds within the chains? So the shrinking takes place within the polymer chains themselves? And how are they connected together?

And are the new bonds amorphic or crystalline? Sorry if my questions are naive, it's many years since I studied chemistry.

Sanforization uses steam, by the way. The fabric is stabilized as it shrinks with rubber rollers.

Actually, I'm computer scientist myself and my knowledge about chemistry is very limited also. I had an opportunity to ask about anything in "real life chemistry" that troubled my mind. So, "Why does my jeans shrink when washed?"

But yes, as I understood, the shrinking happens in (microstructure? of) polymer chains. I have to look at my notes...

Amorphic chains tend to "curl" when they are at the lowest possible energy state (balanced) and that is what they are trying to reach. Cellulose in cotton contains hydroxyl groups (OH), where the name "hydrogen bonds" comes. When washed the water permeates the amorphic parts of polymer chains in cotton breaking the bonds. Additionally heat and agitation will break those bonds even more. So when the broken chains are forming new bonds they try to reach as balanced state as possible (curled up) which leads to shrinking.

Correction to my earlier post. Raw denim has NOT have more amorphic parts than washed. It has more weak hydrogen bonds (or is it the same thing really?).

I have no knowledge (my notes doesn't say) whether this process crystallizes the amorphic parts, but I doubt it very much as cotton is "semi-crystalline" (contains long chains of molecules arranged partly in a morphic fashion and partly in an crystallic fashion) and needs to retain this molecular organization if it likes to continue as cotton?

And good to know about sanforization! He didn't know what it was but said it's most likely some chemical treatment (chemists and their chemicals... ). I'm actually now more biased to buying sanforized denim because it's not chemical process!

(*)And the hydrogen bonding between the polymer chains has something to do with hydrogen atom with negative charge (missing electron) and oxygen atom with positive charge (extra electron) finding each other and connecting through those electron states. Or something like that...

[lantern23]

Super repped post to Moykky and Mlyngard. Quick question for y'all. Loving and repping my SE05BSPs, but wondering if I should give them one more cold wash and nice soft dry in the drying machine.

That would make 3 washes from inception, but I'm thinking there's a wee tiny bit more shrinkage left to get out. Any tips?

Thanks

[PWNED]

Selling a pair of 28 4001, hardly used, looking for 160 shipped anywhere, or trading for a pair in size 29, PM me if you interested

[mrjfang]

finally some better pics. Inazumas worn for about 6 months, a bunch of soaks, no washes.

[freestyl]

deleted post

[modaxxa]

mrjfang: very nice inazumas. I'm always late for a good stuff.

[chambo2008]

i was worried about the inazumas as they sold in selfedge for 350 dollars plus, where maybe at the festival they sold for around 22.000 yen like 220 dollars? i saw the samurai 24 oz going for same price (22.000yen)

[s3lam]

Took some close up pics while waiting for a train to pass.

The beginning of some vertical falling

Side view of combs

[jjkchung]

Took some close up pics while waiting for a train to pass.

nice steph.. but pretty sure that falls under the 'no handhelds while driving' category haha.. don't get booked.

hope all is well with you man.

[ipark]

Took some close up pics while waiting for a train to pass.

The beginning of some vertical falling

how many jeans do you have in your rotation......geeez

not wearing the sams anymore?

[s3lam]

nice steph.. but pretty sure that falls under the 'no handhelds while driving' category haha.. don't get booked.

hope all is well with you man.

Thanks justin....I made sure no cops were around...lol

how many jeans do you have in your rotation......geeez

not wearing the sams anymore?

I get bored easily now a days. Its hard to wear the same jeans for too long a period. The sams will have to wait their turn...lol

[lantern23]

Here's my SE05BSPs after 2 months and maybe 1 month total wear--I rotate them in weekly cycles with my skulls 5010xx and Momotaros.

Mostly just practicing posting photos.

Thanks

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/OPH7CNRwYZrSS7lsvlnYmQ?feat=directlink

[lilmarkham4]

Some old jeans.

[kiya]

Finally got the Wabash Workshirts and Type II 3XXX denim jackets which FH makes for us in a raw version.