Roy. (expurgated edition)

[Potsnu]

50% of 150 is 75.

150 + 75 = 225

Just saying.

When I was working for a fashion designer, the retail mark up on wholesale was 230%. This was after marking up wholesale price from cost price by 200%

I would imagine with the high cost of denim, the MU% is much less than the clothes I was selling to our retail accounts.

If you want $150 denim get Naked and Famous or Nudies.....

Roy's denim is definitely worth the price tag of $275.

[rnrswitch]

Anybody pick up the slim cuts yet? I would like to see how they fit.

[apples]

Should have arrived by Thursday.

[joelz]

I saw them at Self Edge today - they look great, didn't try them on tho

[Ossington]

I think I'd balk at the new price, but a benefit for us slim guys is that he now makes them 2 sizes smaller. This was the only problem before, otherwise I would have robocopped*. I still wish a 27 was available, but 28 would definitely be doable.

*as LAS says

[robbie]

I learned the ASL (american sign language) sign for 'Jeans' this week. There are actually several, depending on your area.

Some folks just do the sign for cowboy, which is less cool than the new one my wife (a sign language interpreter) taught me.

Here is a link:

http://www.signingsavvy.com/sign/jeans

You learned something superuseful

you're welcome

[paulduke04]

Vin, I disagree with the notion that this thread is dead. I too care for fits, progress, and evos. But I also care for the business of ROY. While there was a tad too much "hate" going on for the past 10 days or so, perhaps that's the natural progression of a thread. *shrug*

Very valid point by Potsnu. To me, the raw denim market has grown considerably during the last 5-10years, and consequently, consumers have quality options across the entire price range, from Gap/Uniqlo to 45RPM. So while some of us were extremely fortunate to enjoy ROY at the N&F/Nudie price point, ROY didn't belong there and has moved on to find its natural price point.

My growing concern now is how can ROY establish himself in the market. I hope Mr Slaper has a business model/plan or has talked it over with people with greater knowledge about the business (not just Kiya - too much bias). The denim market is saturated with great products. How can ROY sway consumers away from more established denim brands. I'm not arguing ROY's construction - it is among the best. But when someone is shopping for $300 jeans, I feel it's similar to buying an expensive saloon - most people will buy a BMW or Merc because their value/quality is already well established. Would people buy from a new car maker, even if every car magazine raved about its quality and performance? Lexus in the past and perhaps Hyundai now is trying to accomplish exactly that. For these car companies, price was used to lure the customers until their brand value caught up to the industry leaders.

Will word of mouth, sufu, and SE distribution be enough for ROY's success?

[rnrswitch]

I too don't think this thread is dead. I just wish all y'all that picked these jeans up at 150 would post some evolution pics.

[chambo2008]

i wouldn't put Hyundai anywhere near a Merc/BMW

[dawei69]

we are just rolling in circles with all the price talk!

let's talk about indigo!

I gotta say, the denim is nicely weaved with alot of loom-chatter!

I'm not so sure with Cone's dyeing methods tho, It's really stubborn, I've given up on LVCs and my AW cones...

any chance roy might use some japanese denim in the future??

That would be a REALLY nice

[mikecch]

I was actually thinking Roy should keep using Cone denim, but maybe also find a Japanese retailer and sell them over in Japan too; given their love for all things made in USA (especially denim), I reckon Roy's stuff would do extremely well!

[ranonranonarat]

i'd love to pick up a pair that holds indigo really well but not being a NC kind of denim. kinda contradicting yes but the denim roy uses is amazing. by far one of the favourites that i've handled. for those who have the funds but are hesistating, dont. id love to see how the slim cut fit on some of you around here.

[Vinneus]

I was actually thinking Roy should keep using Cone denim, but maybe also find a Japanese retailer and sell them over in Japan too; given their love for all things made in USA (especially denim), I reckon Roy's stuff would do extremely well!

absolutely not. that market is saturated enough, lets keep it here. thats why Kiya got invloved, he ships world wide. ROY is made in the USA, Cone is sick!

[mikecch]

I had a couple of Japanese friends who were really interested in Roy's.

By all means have Roy keep making them in the USA with Cone denim...but for Roy's to grow eventually he has to have a retailer outside the US?

I mean, as Roy's venture grows, surely sticking to just one retailer is not a good move?

Sugar Cane's best selling jeans are all made in the USA - that's one of their greatest selling points for the Japanese.

Add in the 'one man workshop' appeal, I reckon Roy's would do well!

Given that SE is now retailing them, I would love to have a shop in Australia carry Roy's eventually as well.

Especially since my size (sz 35) is no longer made, I'd very much like to try on a pair when and if I eventually need a new pair of Roy's

[entertainment!]

Especially since my size (sz 35) is no longer made, I'd very much like to try on a pair when and if I eventually need a new pair of Roy's

I was bummed that he was no longer making the size 35 until I discovered it was now called a 34.

[mikecch]

Thanks, I had a look at the chart on SE...unfortunately I need 35 post-soak (my gen. 1 was 36 pre-soak)

[entertainment!]

Thanks, I had a look at the chart on SE...unfortunately I need 35 post-soak (my gen. 1 was 36 pre-soak)

Yes, that is a problem. That is the size I would want for a looser fit. The new 36 at actual 37.3 would be way too big for me.

[Guest redchris]

Hello, sorry, I know this has been done to death, but from another perspective.

I tried to buy a pair of ROYs a few months ago but unfortunately they got held up in customs, then the Royal Mail started an investigation to their non-arrival (which I think involved someone walking to the U.S.), now finally I get my $150 back (sterling equivalent).

I had deliberately stayed away from the ROY thread as I have no masochistic tendencies.

So, I go back for another pair and , ooh great, I've got to give Self Edge another $125 on top ??!!

Now, ROYs jeans may be worth $500 for all I know, but I never intend to find out, and some SuFus must have more money than sense if they think this is all ok (no hate)

Hope and pray this never happens to good old K & TH

[ThinFinn]

even if i don't own a pair of roys cuz i actually was one of them which missed the deadline on the "practice pairs" i still don't get it, why all of you starting to bitch around about the price!

just cuz roy sold his first pairs for less money then he actually could, y'all just have to eye the fact that if you still want a pair of roys you have to pay 275$...

So just take it as it is or leave it. Nobody said that all of you have to pay the "extra" 125$...

Somehow i get the feeling that some of you just wanted to buy a pair of roys cuz of the low price and not for the man and story behind all this...

and now i wanna see some fucking evo-pics guys! ...

[rnrswitch]

Now, ROYs jeans may be worth $500 for all I know, but I never intend to find out, and some SuFus must have more money than sense if they think this is all ok (no hate)

Hope and pray this never happens to good old K & TH

No hate taken.

But Takashi of K&TH, still charges about $200 for a pair of jeans, then they need to be shipped to the states, tack on another, $25, then you have a pair of $225 jeans. On top of that the $225 jeans are not being made by Takashi, but rather a factory where he gets them made. At least that is what I was lead to believe from his emails to me.

ROY makes all his jeans himself.

I do understand your sentiment, though, being out of a nice pair of ROYs after some runaround customs shit.

[paulduke04]

I think it's a great idea to market ROY in Japan (can't get more American than a pair of ROY's, no?) or even Europe. Not only would it open ROY to a bigger international market, but it could elevate brand recognition and value here in the US - by first cultivating a following in Japan or Europe. Current trend of perceived Japanese denim superiority, in products coming from Japan as well as Japanese taste and savviness in denim, can boost local confidence in ROY. It's almost equivalent to: "These are popular in Japan so it must be good stuff.." Perhaps finding one influential retailer in Japan that'll carry ROY might work.

On the issue of fabric: I think ROY should stick with Cone mills. They make great products. Perhaps change the cotton: black seed (pima)? organic? unbleached?

@Chambo, Hyundai is very close to catching up to Toyota and Honda here in the states. That is Lexus-like (not the car but the business/brand), considering where they were 10 years ago.

[Medine]

agreed that he should keep using cone. and I also agree that he should use some of their more interesting cotton. the organic shit would be sweet. oh and black Roys would be divine. I would def buy black Roys.

@Chambo/paulduke, about Hyundai, they just released a new model(cant remember name) to compete with the 7 series and S-class but for $25,000 cheaper than either of those. Its a nice car. I would say that Hyundai can now begin to be compared to BMW, M-B & Lexus

[rnrswitch]

I like the idea of Japan carrying ROYs, mainly because I believe ROYs can compete with any brand from Japan when it comes to construction quality. Of course he doesn't have the wide line and he seems to want to free himself from the "repro" mentality that has/is consuming Japan. I am sure Lightning will be doing a story on him soon if not already.

I had envisioned more of an OOE type operation, where ole ROY had denim A-Z and you chose the cut and denim type.

I hope, and I am assuming, he will keep his gimmick-less mentality towards jeans. I am getting sick of limited this and limited that. I don't think Levis ever had a limited edition yada yada back in the day. The only limited edition stuff I like is where the construction materials are actually limited, like if he were to come across some bad ass denim and only have enough for a certain amount of jeans, or something like that. Oh, and did I mention I really like the uber special limited edition ROY duck pants that came with their own helmet.

[Paul T]

we are just rolling in circles with all the price talk!

let's talk about indigo!

I gotta say, the denim is nicely weaved with alot of loom-chatter!

I'm not so sure with Cone's dyeing methods tho, It's really stubborn, I've given up on LVCs and my AW cones...

any chance roy might use some japanese denim in the future??

That would be a REALLY nice

Why take a purist approach to jeans, and then combine it with a fast-food approach to the denim of which they're made? There are many great Japanese denims with which Roy could expand his palette, but going for a fast-fading one would seem the absolute antithesis of Roy's aesthetic.

[fallen angels]

I'm not so sure with Cone's dyeing methods tho, It's really stubborn, I've given up on LVCs and my AW cones...

patience is the key to happiness

[erk]

Why take a purist approach to jeans, and then combine it with a fast-food approach to the denim of which they're made? There are many great Japanese denims with which Roy could expand his palette, but going for a fast-fading one would seem the absolute antithesis of Roy's aesthetic.

truth.

fast faders never look right anyways. people need to just put the time in...instead of "robocopping"

[tropicalbird]

Why take a purist approach to jeans, and then combine it with a fast-food approach to the denim of which they're made? There are many great Japanese denims with which Roy could expand his palette, but going for a fast-fading one would seem the absolute antithesis of Roy's aesthetic.

This pretty much sums up the Japanese denim nuthuggers.

[robbie]

some evo-updates

nothing too impressive yet...

[rnrswitch]

Why take a purist approach to jeans, and then combine it with a fast-food approach to the denim of which they're made? There are many great Japanese denims with which Roy could expand his palette, but going for a fast-fading one would seem the absolute antithesis of Roy's aesthetic.

Someone had to say it.

I assume when Levis first intended to make "blue jeans" they actually wanted them to stay blue, not fade to "evolve to the wearer" or "become one with the wearer" or any of that other quote worthy hipness going on. They wanted sturdy blue jeans that lasted. I think Cone has it "right" because they have been doing it "right" for a little over a century. "Right" in quotes, cuz I don't want to tell anybody what "right" really is.

[bocaburgler]

hypothetically what happens if some company involving 10 individuals were to make the same quality pair of denim in every way as ROY does himself, but the price of the jeans were to cost half as much because they were less labor intensive while no sacrifice in product was detected.

are the jeans themselves really worth the value we attach to 250 dollars, or are we more so paying for the idea of expert craftsmanship than for the product itself?

I think the jeans are wonderful, and would totally buy them, but as a consumer it's quit silly to buy a similar product for cheaper even though they aren't "hand made"