SUPERDENIM SMALL QUESTIONS THREAD (Use instead of making new threads)

[Double 0 Soul]

16 minutes ago, julian-wolf said:

Without DHL fuck-ups and with a ¥19.8k retail, I’d expect a total closer to $210. This is compared to $245 at Self Edge. Personally, at that point, I’d rather spend the extra $35 to support the local shop…so I guess in that sense the tariffs are “working”…but in reality I just end up not buying the jeans, and it’s a wash

If they were working, you'd be supporting retailers that sell MiA jeans

[Lorcan]

SC47s are £101 with free shipping from Bears (and no proxy required). Of course they don't have stock at the moment but versus £325 at American Classics in London, yeah there's a reason Bears new arrivals page tends to be an open browser tab for me

Edited September 30, 2025 by Lorcan

[Double 0 Soul]

It's incredible really.. back in 2008 when the UK had a strong currency (and i last bought a pair of SC47s at Japanese retail) we were getting around $2 to the pound, Japanese consumption tax was running at 5% and SC47s were the equivalent of £94.. 17yrs of inflation later, our currency / economy is on it's knees yet they're still only £101

Edited September 30, 2025 by Double 0 Soul

[ATWM]

14 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

If they were working, you'd be supporting retailers that sell MiA jeans

I started out this way, my very few first pairs were from Raleigh Denim, but then you just come around to the fact that while they exist, almost none of them are good - or good in the way that I prefer at least. No shade to Raleigh, the pairs I had were very well made - but the details, patterning and poly stitching that every pair has long has been a turn off for me. I always wanted to beat up a pair of their proprietary Cone Denim but still not that badly - it was sanforized with poly stitching still, and their pairs were hitting $400 even before Covid. 

By all of those metrics, even with tariffs, at retail Japanese sold in the US still blows most if not MiUSA stuff out of the water. Think Roy would have been the lone exception. The was Bowery Blue guy, but his shit was $600, and he's taken his studio to Osaka! 

The tariffs are doing something alright. The definition of working is a complicated one here, no one in the auto industry or anything else in my region for that matter would use that word, at least not that I've come across! 

[Broark]

11 minutes ago, ATWM said:

but then you just come around to the fact that while they exist, almost none of them are good

This is something I've been thinking a lot about lately, there really aren't any great denim makers left in the US. Seems as though the well dried up.
Come to think of it, the only MiUSA pairs that I have left are all made by Roy. Everything else is Japanese (and Italian 🍕).

[Double 0 Soul]

Would Sugarcanes MiUSA line, incur tariffs if bought from Japan?

[ATWM]

20 minutes ago, Broark said:

This is something I've been thinking a lot about lately, there really aren't any great denim makers left in the US. Seems as though the well dried up.
Come to think of it, the only MiUSA pairs that I have left are all made by Roy. Everything else is Japanese (and Italian 🍕).

It would take a combination of a lot of passion in order to learn it properly - probably by like, funding your own mentorship in Japan, and already being financially stable, I think. Maybe you're good at trading stocks at night or something.

There's no way a one person brand could get away getting quite skilled at, making a very good pair for let's say, $350 / pair and still afford to live a decent life on what they make from the jeans. Maybe if you got lucky and secured a mortgage in with low interest in 1998 somewhere in the middle of nowhere here you could take a sabbatical from your job to try to get it going? Wasn't there some dude in Wyoming that Roy was helping recently? I know there's that Ciano Farmer dude in Texas but I have no idea if it's good, I always got the impression he was overextended and orders took absolutely forever. But that's the thing with the all custom shops like his - or even Viapiana - good as it might be, it's hard to discern some sort of coherent vision from them.

@Double 0 Soul I would guess so, but have no idea. 

[Le Clown Bleu]

1 hour ago, Lorcan said:

SC47s are £101 with free shipping from Bears (and no proxy required). Of course they don't have stock at the moment but versus £325 at American Classics in London, yeah there's a reason Bears new arrivals page tends to be an open browser tab for me

I refuse to buying anything form uk stores  if i have to when it comes to stuff from japan the mark up is so so high 

[julian-wolf]

45 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Would Sugarcanes MiUSA line, incur tariffs if bought from Japan?

Yep—and, in practice, the models made from Japanese denim would get hit twice, since the denim itself would be taxed on import before the jeans were even made

[Double 0 Soul]

8 minutes ago, Le Clown Bleu said:

I refuse to buying anything form uk stores  if i have to when it comes to stuff from japan the mark up is so so high 

Part of the problem.. at least regarding Sugarcane (and associted brands) ..

They're not bought at trade price from Japan +ship +import fees +retail mark up.

They're bought from Togged / Niro's the UK distributor of Sugrcane.. Niro's have held Sugarcane distribution rights since around 2006 therefore, the mark up from the distributor is also reflected in the retail price of the jeans.

[julian-wolf]

^ There used to be a similar setup in the US, with History Preservation Associates—are they still around??—but at this point I’m sure Self Edge et al. all have their own direct accounts

[Le Clown Bleu]

8 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Part of the problem.. at least regarding Sugarcane (and associted brands) ..

They're not bought at trade price from Japan +ship +import fees +retail mark up.

They're bought from Togged / Niro's the UK distributor of Sugrcane.. Niro's have held Sugarcane distribution rights since around 2006 therefore, the mark up from the distributor is also reflected in the retail price of the jeans.

i did not know that sucks

[Broark]

46 minutes ago, ATWM said:

There's no way a one person brand could get away getting quite skilled at, making a very good pair for let's say, $350 / pair and still afford to live a decent life on what they make from the jeans.

Actually I was thinking about this lately. I've been having a bit of an existential crisis with my job and career as of late. I've gotten to a point where I pretty much loathe what I do for day to day work, it doesn't do anything for me besides paying the bills and allowing me to support my family and lifestyle financially. And while that's a lot to be thankful for on it's own, every day I just feel kind of empty.
I thought about what I love and what I know I'm good at. How could I turn that into something that I do everyday so that I feel fulfilled? I started thinking about trying to hunt down and invest in a workshop setup with vintage machines, and then I remembered that I have a young family to support. And I have zero experience sewing a pair of jeans or anything at all. So I left it because it just isn't realistic.
And now I'm just kind of back to square one of the existential crisis. 

[Double 0 Soul]

6 minutes ago, julian-wolf said:

^ There used to be a similar setup in the US, with History Preservation Associates—are they still around??—but at this point I’m sure Self Edge et al. all have their own direct accounts

I don't know if they're still around.. the guy was called Charles .. i remember having a few "discussions" with him over on DB, he used to post in the SC thread under 'HPA REP'

If i remember rightly.. there was a bit of a storm in a teacup between him and Kiya when SE were getting their own direct account and Charles was losing distribution..

Micheal Jackson ate lots of popcorn that day

[ATWM]

@julian-wolf I believe HPA is still going - at least their web presence makes it look like it. 

@Broark you and like 80% of the people I know. It's a problem of contemporary life in many ways - it's pretty void of meaning and the culture celebrates more or less all that makes you empty - though the affording a lifestyle and feeding a family is really doing better than most at this point as you acknowledge. Meaning can be derived in other places, but you have to go digging.

I took the other route for better or worse - I essentially lived hand to mouth for a good decade out of college because I insisted on carving my own path. I had to do a lot of jobs I wouldn't have done, but in freelance they always end quickly and you can move past it, and they allowed me to focus on my projects. But the instability of that life, and I daresay that I think I did better at it than most in my industry, is fundamentally incompatible with anything other than living close to something like a monk. When I've talked to students and they ask for career advice I tell them to do anything else that allows stability unless they unquestionably need to be an artist and nothing else will suffice. The world, and especially the U.S., just doesn't really appreciate or support the arts and crafts in a way that would make any sane person want to do it. I wouldn't really recommend going down related paths. I'm sort of an anomaly amongst my peers in that a few things in life unrelated to work - some, in hindsight, solid decisions, and then some things totally out of my control provided me some stability after about a fifteen years of claiming the EIC (so, basically, making not much above poverty), and that provided me with a base to take some career risks that helped. 

Trying to tell you not to worry about it and hang out with your wife and kid and that's as good as it gets for the most part 😃 

And trust me, trying to grow an independent business in the default world of social media is just absolute hell and will make you want a cabin in the woods and start wondering - not if you should read Karl Marx - but just how extensively you should him and all of his contemporary acolytes 😃 .. or something like that. 

[Lorcan]

If Tender start doing MiUSA jeans you guys will have a good option.

[julian-wolf]

^ I think William has stated that jeans & denim jackets will continue being made in the same UK facility, at least for the near future

That said, I’m really looking forward to learning more about whatever US workshops / factories he’s found to take over the rest of production

[ATWM]

23 minutes ago, julian-wolf said:

^ I think William has stated that jeans & denim jackets will continue being made in the same UK facility, at least for the near future

That said, I’m really looking forward to learning more about whatever US workshops / factories he’s found to take over the rest of production

This is true. Tender is (now) one (sort of) miusa brand I’m keen to follow - well, again, and also sort of mister freedom.  

[beautiful_FrEaK]

9 hours ago, ATWM said:

Wasn't there some dude in Wyoming that Roy was helping recently?

Tilden

https://tildenshop.com/

But his prices are also up there and I don't like the design

[Double 0 Soul]

8 hours ago, Broark said:

Actually I was thinking about this lately. I've been having a bit of an existential crisis with my job and career as of late. I've gotten to a point where I pretty much loathe what I do for day to day work, it doesn't do anything for me besides paying the bills and allowing me to support my family and lifestyle financially. And while that's a lot to be thankful for on it's own, every day I just feel kind of empty.

The word you're looking for is 'parenthood' 

I'm in a similar position to @ATWM i used to buy tins of dented new potatoes from Netto for 4p, heat them up in a pan, put them in a bowl, add salad cream and that was my evening meal.

If it makes you feel any better.. i have quite a fulfilling job but it doesn't stop me having the same feelings of emptiness, i think it's just human nature.. it sounds like you're doing pretty well but my advice would be.. if you want 'out' stop buying crap, run a cheap-ass car.. consuming endless amounts of jeans, sneakers ect just compounds the feelings of emptiness.. save the money and (in let's say 15yrs time when your family rely on you less) use it to change direction... from an ex-hoarders perspective, i get it.. it gives you something to look fwd to to break up the monotony of work... this is where hobbies help for me.. tennis with my kid or a blast around the Peaks on my MTB at the weekend is like pressing my factory reset and gives me something to look fwd to every few days which doesn't cost me any money.

The grass isn't always greener..  i don't have a well paid corporate job so i end up working around 65-70hrs/wk.. to get a better than average standard of living.. this gets me down sometimes (especially in the winter) and i often think i would have been better doing a job i hate to earn more £/hr and work less hours.. i also went through a period of over-consumption with feelings of regret that i'd worked all day Saturday to buy these jeans and sneakers that i don't actually need. 

Anywho.. when we became a single income household around a decade ago, i had to stop the endless consumerism but i then managed to break even financially at 49.. ive never had a credit card or any bank / car loans but i do have mortgage debt.. i don't have a pension but my savings and investments are now higher than my outstanding mortgage.. i could pay it off and be debt free but my mortgage dept runs at 2.79% while my savings are closer to 5%.. i've been living on my own / supporting myself since the age of 17/18 so it's taken me 32yrs.. without all the crap i bought and subsequently sold.. i could have done it in 20 

[Hopethisoneisnttaken]

@Broark this feeling that you are describing has haunted me ever since I shifted from academia to corporate industry. 
 

The route I’m mostly taking now is what @Double 0 Soul said. I can’t really stop working or have lower hours because of family and lack of current savings, but I try to make the most out of the free hours and days off, going climbing, hiking or trying out new hobbies and developing old ones. Hopefully I’ll be able to post pictures of me hanging out in nature climbing or biking or whatever when I’m 49 as well 😉. 
 

going back to sewing - wouldn’t it be a good thing to try and developing your skills in that in you time off for now, to see if you even like it? 

[Broark]

11 hours ago, ATWM said:

Trying to tell you not to worry about it and hang out with your wife and kid and that's as good as it gets for the most part 😃 

3 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

if you want 'out' stop buying crap, run a cheap-ass car.. consuming endless amounts of jeans, sneakers ect just compounds the feelings of emptiness.. save the money and (in let's say 15yrs time when your family rely on you less) use it to change direction

Thanks guys, these are the things I'm trying to focus on (combined with addressing my own mental health for the first time in my life) and it does feel like it's helping.
Another thing I have to try and remember is something my friend's wife told me a few years ago while we were on a couples trip: adjusting my perspective from "living to work" to "working to live". Fill my time with things that I love and not just focus on constantly growing or pushing to advance my career. I need to treat work as something that allows me to do the things I love and not something that is so all encompassing. I think it's something that is difficult to do because of societal pressures and norms, but I'm trying to adjust my perspective.
These are some of the driving factors as to why I want to eventually move, Austin (and larger cities in Texas, generally speaking) feels like a constant rat race and I'm ready to tap out. There's a lot of Keeping Up With the Joneses around here, and honestly I can't say I give two shits about your tech company or your tech bro corporate culture. Sadly those are the types that live here now, it didn't always used to be this way. I'd much rather live somewhere slower paced with better access to nature and real seasons that will allow me to spend more time outside with my family and away from the bullshit mentioned above.

[Hopethisoneisnttaken]

8 minutes ago, Broark said:

I'd much rather live somewhere slower paced with better access to nature and real seasons that will allow me to spend more time outside with my family and away from the bullshit mentioned above

Is that not possible with your current job?

[Broark]

Just now, Hopethisoneisnttaken said:

Is that not possible with your current job?

It is possible with my job and I'm trying to make the most out of it where we currently live by going for more regular walks around our neighborhood or in nearby parks.
I play a bit of casual golf at local public courses with a group a friends, I find it a fun way to spend a few hours walking around outside.
But when it's October and the highs are still hovering around 95F / 35C it's not much fun to spend a lot of time outside.  
Another thing that people don't talk about is how limited access to public land is here in Texas. Despite being the second largest state by area, less than 5% of that is public.

[Hopethisoneisnttaken]

4 minutes ago, Broark said:

It is possible with my job and I'm trying to make the most out of it where we currently live by going for more regular walks around our neighborhood or in nearby parks.
I play a bit of casual golf at local public courses with a group a friends, I find it a fun way to spend a few hours walking around outside.
But when it's October and the highs are still hovering around 95F / 35C it's not much fun to spend a lot of time outside.  
Another thing that people don't talk about is how limited access to public land is here in Texas. Despite being the second largest state by area, less than 5% of that is public.

We have the same weather here, so I definitely relate, it’s 32 C today. I try to tell myself that it’s similar (yet opposite) to places with very cold weather, where people can only to outdoor activities in summer. Even though harsh cold conditions are somewhat more romantic than harsh hot conditions. 
 

that’s surprising to learn about Texas. I always read how it’s endless and filled with wilderness, but I guess it’s mostly private land? 
 

I know a lot of folks that maintained their jobs but switched to working fully remote, which in turned allowed them to move to a slower paced environment etc. Thinking about doing something similar myself in the future. 
 

 

[Broark]

@Hopethisoneisnttaken seems like you can definitely relate then!
I wouldn't want to live somewhere that's got a crazy long winter either, but I wouldn't mind an actual snow day here or there.
That's the false narrative that's been successfully created with Texas, you can drive for hours and hours and 95% of what you're looking at is privately held land that you can't access.

I actually work fully remote now, it has benefits and drawbacks but for where I'm at in life it's enjoyable.
It's been invaluable since having our daughter! Makes it so much easier to run simple errands or pick up the house a bit.

[ATWM]

@Double 0 Soul no dented potatoes for me, I lived off of the expired Starbucks packaged foods that my roommate saved from the dumpster, lol. I’m sure that took a few years off me!  

@Hopethisoneisnttaken I don’t think I’ve lived in real extremes of either climate but I’ve lived through hot enough summers and cold enough winters to know that a super hot season is a lot harder for me. Something about the sun being out, the light being long and the nights staying hot with no break - and then not being able to be outside even when it’s light is worse than cold and grey and staying inside. Plus, you can always put on more layers and when you do get outside in the cold it is peaceful in a way that is different. 

@Broark I’ve never lived in Texas, but my wife and I spent 5 years in NC (moving there from Chicago). A lot of friends in Chicago seemed to want to come with when we moved - all because “those low property taxes!” - nevermind we were renting a studio loft apt together and couldn’t afford to buy a home at any near point. Feel like Chicago is one of those places with a lot of people who live there just because that’s where they were born and they always dream of living but can’t quite articulate why. Just some urge for something different. Usually it’s for the mountains or the ocean etc.

After some time in NC I understood it though. Low property taxes, yes - and in exchange, low public access to a ton of stuff that made life in the Chicago area better - more public parks, public pools, libraries etc. They had those things there but the degree was so much less. It all made sense. Low property taxes because everyone is paying HOA fees living in gated communities instead. But we were more shut out from that - as was pretty much everyone else that wasn’t upper middle class. We have fairly high property taxes in the college town I live in now and while it stings, I would take the trade off any day, fwiw. The quality of life difference is palpable and that’s worth a good amount. I’m not sure it’s the same in TX but I got the sense it was a sort of northern/southern US philosophical divide about public space/public resources. If you can afford a lot of land then I’m sure it’s great. 

Even with work I believe in though I’ve had a similar struggle as Neal points out - in general I find the answer is just to try to spend more time with friends and family (in addition to nature etc). We try to host friends for dinner if we see an opening even when it seems tiring to do so, for example, or drag them out to a place where our kids can run around and we can get a drink. Never regret it. For many there’s also a spiritual component of some sort that I think is understandable, but that’s not something I’d opine on in any specific way.

These conversations are also a good reminder that I do need to stop buying shit, too. Because that never works for more than a minute. 

Edited October 1, 2025 by ATWM

[Broark]

@ATWM my sister and her family recently left Chicago (well a suburb very nearby) after a few years and they really enjoyed their time there for all of the things you mentioned about not having access to in NC. They moved to another place with similar benefits, so nothing lost there. These benefits are typically linked to a higher tax burden, and when those benefits improve the quality of life for you and your family I think it's worth paying for.
A lot of the problems that you mention in NC are also applicable in Texas. While our daughter is quite a few years off from school aged, but I've already started to worry about the public education system here. Without getting too political, the state government is actively dissuading parents from enrolling their kids in public schools and pushing them to private schools (which are often religiously affiliated, you can draw your conclusions on what the motivation is there). All the while actively defunding public education. If you want to enroll your kid in an area with good public schools you need to be able to afford a home in a neighborhood where the homes are all well north of $1M and that's just not in the cards for us.
Needless to say I've already told my wife we need to be living elsewhere by the time she starts school. It's hard since we've both lived here for over 15 years now, we have a good friend group and we kind of know what to expect with day to day life, but I think ultimately we need to go elsewhere.
We've already talked about a few potential landing spots, just a matter of making it happen here in the next couple of years.

[Hopethisoneisnttaken]

@ATWM while I generally agree with your point I have to say that my beef with the summers here is mostly about length rather than  intensity. I don’t mind the scorching hot summer days and 28 C nights. I mind that it’s summer from mid May to mid October. My beef with winter on the other hand, is definitely lack of intensity haha. 

My wife on the other hand, has a really hard time with grey and cloudy days. 
I think it’s also worth mentioning that a lot of this is being used to the climate you grew up in (not you you, the general you). As mentioned somewhere in this forum in the past, I can comfortably spend the day in jeans when 25C, while others here wear shorts in above 15C 😅

 

With all that being said, it would sure be nice not having to change shirts on my way to work just because 10 minutes of my commute is on bicycle. 

[Broark]

6 minutes ago, Hopethisoneisnttaken said:

I mind that it’s summer from mid May to mid October.

Yup this drives me crazy too, May though...who knows when.  We have had years when it's 85F / 29C on Thanksgiving or even Christmas day.
I'd much rather be somewhere with more distinct seasons.