SUPERDENIM SMALL QUESTIONS THREAD (Use instead of making new threads)

[minya]

Since we've been getting tons of small, insignificant questions that don't need their own threads, here is a thread where they can all go.

RULES:

1) DO NOT SHIT UP THIS THREAD. This is not a supertrash thread. Unnecessary, stupid replies will be deleted. Offenders may be temp banned depending on my mood.

2) DON'T POST UNLESS YOU ARE ASKING A QUESTION OR ANSWERING ONE!

3) DO NOT BE A JERK OR AN ASS OR BE SNIDE OR SARCASTIC! This thread is for all those dumb little questions that don't need their own threads, so don't come in here if you don't want to read them!

4) This is for small/dumb/personal questions. IE: "What should I buy next? What is starch? How do I shrink my jeans? What is STF? What is sanforization? What is my waist size? What inseam do I get? What is hemming?" etc. etc. etc.

[poly800rock]

complete n00b question but do apc jeans have felled inseams?

[drapygo]

Question: Why do new raw jeans need to be soaked? Do you have to soak them?

[poly800rock]

they don't if they're safanoized. otherwise they'll shrink...its america and you don't have to do anything you don't want to

[minya]

Question: Why do new raw jeans need to be soaked? Do you have to soak them?

True raw jeans shrink appx. 10% when they come into contact with water (especially hot water). Soaking them before wearing means they stabilize size-wise. Sanforized, or preshrunk raw jeans do not need to be soaked before wearing. They shrink very little when washed (although there is occasional inseam shrinkage of approx. 1"). Some people soak sanforized jeans anyway.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

soaking removes starch/sizing, too.

good for the health of your jeans, especially if you are gonna wear 'em six months straight w/o washing.

chicken calls this noriotoshi

[Charlie Delta]

I have a small/dumb? question concerning hairiness of denim, I searched but nothing came up really and I think it's interesting for all of us:

I've noticed that hairiness is also an issue for some people around here

and it's seen as something positive/an extra sign of quality.

(picture stolen from Moz)

But if I remember correctly, I was once told that when a fabric is hairy like that, it is a sign of low(er) quality, because it shows that the yarn used consists of shorter

(= cheaper) threads, since they are shorter the ends pop out. If the threads would be longer, there would be less ends popping out and the fabric would turn out less hairy.

Anyone out there who could tell me more about this?

It's a bit technical and I hope I managed to make it clear enough.

Anyway, there haven't been enough tecnhical threads on here recently imho.

Oh and if by any chance I could have found this using the search button, please slap me!

[Paul T]

Re the 'hairiness', I've been told by an expert at LVC that this was down to whether the fabric has been 'singed' - which is as it sounds, usually with a gas flame. Some Levi's denim IS singed, to remove lint or hairiness, some of the repros, notably the first Capital E reissues, weren't. I presume having non-singed denim is seen as giving a more vintage look.

There are other processes, too, that would cut down on tthis look, including calendering, where the fabric is pressed between rollers - I think there's a good ringring post on this somewhere, talking about its effects. I imagine sanforizing would do so, too.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

cotton----i've heard that sort of hairiness to be problem when you are searching for a quality sweater for the very reason you mentioned; but i'm certain that is not the case with denim. the contest samurai jeans, for example, use that texas cotton that has naturally shorter fibers, though it is a high-quality cotton.

i think people on this board value hairy denim because sfers seem to prefer their jeans closer to loomstate. raw, not factory-singed, non-mercerized (mercerization would also yield a flatter effect), jeans.

um... i just found another denim glossary

[Charlie Delta]

Thanks, so this has nothing to do with the quality of the denim, it's basicly just another "authentic" extra?

For me the theory I mentioned still sort of makes sense, and "singeing"(?) could just be an extra step to hide it? Hmmm?

edit: I wrote my reply before reading ddml's, the sweater story sounds like I've heard it before, and you're right, there's no reason to assume that short=bad.

Also the person who told me was a sewing teacher and by no means a denim expert! I was just curious.

[keri]

^when it comes to knitting, that is true, a shorter staple is bad, you're tugging on your yarn alot and it will break if the staple is not long enough.

[Charlie Delta]

Sweatshirt material is a knit, and denim is woven.

Is that what makes the difference?

You're talking about handknitting though, right?

Hmmm, complicated!

[denimdestroyedmylife]

denim yarns are much more tightly wound than yarns for knitting.

i don't think there is a way to twist cotton fibers so that it doesn't have a hairy appearance.

i cut off a piece of errant string from my samurai jeans and experimented. basically, untwisted it, pulled it all apart and twisted it into a thread again. it was fun.

[startmeup]

intead of soaking i took a bath in new jeans. ive been wearing them foor about 7 weeks now and everything is fine, except the knees are completely blown. will this self correct when i wash, because i really dont like the big kneecap impression.

[msz_karen]

will the raw denim break if you dont wash them for 6 months? and this is my biggest question if i soak them in my bath tub just for the shrinkage, do they lose sheen and and indigo? is warm water or cold water best for this one time process?:confused:

[startmeup]

^^

1. no it will not break after 6 months unless you use a saw or beat it with a shovel or something else extreme. 6 months is a good start.

2 sheen yes indigo not really.

3. hot water

[msz_karen]

hmmm...sounds like a plan.. how do i get the sheen look back? and how long do i soak it for. b/c here in nyc there are other stf jeans..faded, dark, light and all that.. soft denim tho. is it the same process? or should i just throw them in the machine since they dont really lose color?

[startmeup]

um...try starch and glitter. the sheen will go away. if you want to keep the sheen of raw denim then put vineagar in to keep the indigo and never wash them and dont bend your knees when you walk.

[startmeup]

and 90 minutes is a good start on a soak. it varies though. samurai denim will need more than apc, because its heavier/slubbier. slubby means bumpy and unprocessed, made on a shuttle loom.

[dismalfuture]

and 90 minutes is a good start on a soak. it varies though. samurai denim will need more than apc, because its heavier/slubbier. slubby means bumpy and unprocessed, made on a shuttle loom.

we need some filtering as to who gets to give information in this thread.

[twistedtrees]

Question about soaking:

If I soak raw/dry denim to shrink before wearing, will it then stretch out a little bit from wearing them the way normal, store-bought, sanforized jeans do?

[superBobo]

yes they will stretch out with wear.

[airfrogusmc]

Question: Why do new raw jeans need to be soaked? Do you have to soak them?

I don't pre soak I just wear'm raw. Several months and then in for the first cold soak. LVCs take usually 10 soak or so the fully shrink. Usually almost fully shrunk with 3 or 4 though.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

airfrog, your jeans in particular seem to get heavy knee fades from the word go------when the jeans achieve their full leg twist, don't you find your original knee fade has migrated to the side of your leg?!

[keri]

Sweatshirt material is a knit, and denim is woven.

Is that what makes the difference?

You're talking about handknitting though, right?

Hmmm, complicated!

I am talking abotu hand knitting, but it is a given that most knit garments require a longer staple because like others said, the strands are not wound as tightly, and will pull easier. The shorter the staple, the morelikely a sweater will pill.

[Miles]

In the washing threads, Bronners is generally recommended with "gentle abrasion." I'm assuming this means fairly light strokes with a scrub-brush. True, not true? More preferred methods?

[denimdestroyedmylife]

just wash with your hands; turn the jeans inside out; massage the jeans, but don't rub too much; it is the agitation that results in indigo loss

me, i like to use the washing machine on the "hand-wash cycle", but be sure to take 'em out before spin cycle.

i would NOT use a brush

but whatever, they're just jeans (TM ringring)

[airfrogusmc]

airfrog, your jeans in particular seem to get heavy knee fades from the word go------when the jeans achieve their full leg twist, don't you find your original knee fade has migrated to the side of your leg?!

I usually go months between soaks and it takes 10 soaks to get full shrinkage so its a slow migration. Maybe stuff moves but I think it looks great in the end. Very authentic in my opinion. Cause on original vintage jeans folks weren't worried about fades shifting with shrinkage they just wore the jeans. I will say for the most part LVCs do not fade very quickly and don't shrink fully for 10 or so soaks now other makers might shrink more quickly and fade much faster so that might be a problem but I haven't found that with the LVCs that I've owned. Now this is with natural wear I have no idea what would happen if you're sanding and such.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

the FOUND book from CONE got me thinking about old washing techniques. though I would assume that washing would be somewhat more infrequent than in the present, their methods seem much harsher. i am thinking of the washboard and the wringer. their more arduous lifestyle (on farms and such) would lend an aggressive fade, even with harsh, abrasive washes every couple weeks. i think that we have to baby our jeans much more because we don't put them to task in the same way.

i'm not sure i'm making sense.

[cheapmuthafukr]

you baby your jeans.

you are making perfect sense.

work a field and you can have waist overalls like that... custom and shit

chew tobacco and father poor children in the south....

near where i built my first bridge... seen many shacks of the kind found in found.