W. H. Ranch Dungarees

[Broark]

1 hour ago, ShootThePier said:

A lot of us denim freaks are looking for exactly that, style and construction of our parents and grandparents.

I’ll stick with Roy, Ooe, and other reputable American and Japanese makers who are putting out better product. And when you give them money you know you’re actually going to receive the product you paid for. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[shredwin_206]

His work is great. The 4-5 year wait not so much. 

Hard to not get upset when you’ve been waiting that long and he’s pumping out new product. Always paid in full up front. 

[Broark]

I’d kinda get it if you were only expected to lay down 100 bucks up front or something. But that’s not the case. I just feel like the whole thing gives the one man brand idea a bad wrap. Hell, Amos at Grease Point Workwear is faster than this fraud and he spent the whole summer working on an orchard.

[ShootThePier]

2 hours ago, Broark said:

I’ll stick with Roy, Ooe, and other reputable American and Japanese makers who are putting out better product. And when you give them money you know you’re actually going to receive the product you paid for. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you like the piece, and you get a time guarantee you are happy with, his quality is great.

I don’t own any Ooe or Roy, so I can’t compare, but I have with both purchases been pleasantly surprised by the fit and finish.

[JDelage]

The problem is not the wait. The problem is paying 100% upfront. This *always* blows up. (Small deposits are OK.)

[Broark]

Yup, exactly what JDelage said above. He asks for money up front with no guarantee you'll ever get what you paid for.
But if I paid 400 bucks for some jeans that I had to wait 5 years for, meanwhile the guy is prioritizing other projects then I would feel conned.
My point is there are other options out there that are just as nice with the guarantee that you'll get your stuff.
I just don't understand why he doesn't cut off orders and clear out his backlog. That's what Ship John does with his Willis jackets and what bespoke shoemakers do.
Probably because the 400 bucks you spent 5 years ago is long gone and he's gotta keep it up somehow.
At the end of the day it's your money, you do what you want with it.

[Maynard Friedman]

No-one is criticising his clothing.

Everyone is criticising his business principles.

[conqueror]

drew k from this very own forum got away with over $100k scot-free under his TOJ label. has this WH dude fleeced even more than that with his "orders" taking 5 or whatever years? wouldn't be surprised if this all turns into TOJ 2.0 if it hasn't already.

edit: i had a very positive experience with TOJ before it all went to shit. nonetheless, drew ripped off an absurd amount of people with pretty much zero real world consequence.

Edited September 28, 2019 by conqueror

[shredwin_206]

At the end of the day it sucks because his work is great and honestly I haven’t found any other jeans that fit me as well.

I’ll say what other have said. It’s his business model not his craftsmanship that are the issue.  

Here are two of my favorite pairs. Both from 2014 or 2015 

[chambo2008]

2 hours ago, conqueror said:

drew k from this very own forum got away with over $100k scot-free under his TOJ label. has this WH dude fleeced even more than that with his "orders" taking 5 or whatever years? wouldn't be surprised if this all turns into TOJ 2.0 if it hasn't already.

edit: i had a very positive experience with TOJ before it all went to shit. nonetheless, drew ripped off an absurd amount of people with pretty much zero real world consequence.

Never knew this? I have a TOJ bomber, love it 

[youngofthesoonest]

17 minutes ago, chambo2008 said:

Never knew this? I have a TOJ bomber, love it 

whew, if you have a couple hours, the TOJ thread on style forum is a fun/frustrating read. TL:DR is basically a large scale version of what WH Ranch is doing. Took a ton a preorders, people knew the wait time was going to be long so most people patiently waited and by the time it was obvious that jackets were not going to be delivered, it was too late. Also a chicken shop in Korea was involved. 

[Broark]

Shitty situation, but I remember that being one of the first stories I followed in the online clothing forum world.

[mlwdp]

Yeah I remember them and wanted a jacket a while back.  The TOJ thread here was my first exposure to this forum.

Time flys by fast.

[chambo2008]

Crazy, booking it in for when I have time for a read 

[428CJ]

He sure is busy as hell on Instagram, hawking new shit and posing with his hip buddies. If it wasn't for that, I don't think the people waiting would be half as pissed.

[Tapori]

Just passed my 3-year anniversary wait. I'm stoked my jeans will be here soon.

[shredwin_206]

Nah. Current wait is now 4-5 years. You still have time. Hahaha 

[428CJ]

That's right! He needs to spend all his time "at work" developing and marketing new products, promoting his scam on Instagram, and posing for gay photo shoots with his hipster buddies.

[Maynard Friedman]

The longer you wait, the more of a bargain the $500 price tag (or whatever it is you paid, however many years ago) becomes in real terms. He’s actually doing everyone a favour by selling his jeans at today’s (inflated) prices for a delivery in circa 2040 when they would probably cost $1000.

He’s a true man of the people, a modern-day Robin Hood!

[Double 0 Soul]

All's not lost lads.. you can sell your place in 'the queue' for $750

I'm surprised nobody has baseball batted this cnut

[l13902733261]

23 hours ago, Maynard Friedman said:

The longer you wait, the more of a bargain the $500 price tag (or whatever it is you paid, however many years ago) becomes in real terms. He’s actually doing everyone a favour by selling his jeans at today’s (inflated) prices for a delivery in circa 2040 when they would probably cost $1000.

He’s a true man of the people, a modern-day Robin Hood!

galaxy brain level financial hedging

[mememessenger]

I talked with him a while back. He said that he's going to cut regular orders this year. Going to clear the back log and only taking 4 rush orders a month from now on. I hope that's true since I'm almost at the three year mark too... 

The Instagram posts of new projects and all that are annoying but he seems like a nice guy

[unders]

The least the guy owes to the people he’s ripped off is being nice. Surely it’d be better if he were an absolute mingebag but actually managed to make some jeans. 

[ShootThePier]

He’s very talented, and I believe he agonizes over the quality of each piece he puts out. He might be too good, and too passionate, which puts him at odds with our current “immediate gratification” economy that he has allowed himself to fall victim to, along with his clients.

I understand his feeling of wanting to fulfill every order as they come to him, or he may lose that customer forever.

One man making one pair of jeans is an extremely limited output business model. The years where energy, passion, talent, ability, and free time line up is a very small window. All the while, he is planning his next step, next evolution, in order to stay relevant, when our market is extremely small and can be fickle to begin with.

Roy is the closest comparison I can think of, but Roy makes a few hundred(?) pairs of the same pattern in multiple sizes, in one fabric, sells out, and moves on to the next project.

Ryan offers multiple patterns, sized to order, in multiple fabrics, and still makes all models/patterns he has offered in the past.

So while Roy is the closest comparison to Ryan, they are completely different, and both fill a niche in the market.

Ryan is in a tough spot. He approaches his craft more like an artist than a business. None of the criticisms here are for his physical product, in fact, that is well regarded and well respected. Getting it is the hard part. I’m very happy I have my 18oz. WHR 1901. My jacket is a little short for me since I’m not tucking in my shirts at present.

[Maynard Friedman]

If it is so important then he should have realised about 2-3 years ago that he is letting his customers down badly. He should have stopped taking fast-track orders and dealt with his existing customers in the correct sequence. Anyone new should join the end of the queue. This is why people think of him as a greedy charlatan who couldn’t give a toss.

[Broark]

I honestly don’t see any way of defending what he does. I think he got in over his head with the volume and instead of being honest about it and clearing out the backlog he doubled down and figured out a way to capitalize on it, all the while marketing it for Instagram likes while he laughs all the way to the bank. At the same time he talks shit about people who criticize him for calling him out. More power to him, but I find it disingenuous and I would never even consider buying anything he is behind just out of principle. There are many other small manufacturers that have the same business model he does (usually making a better product, in my opinion) without being sleazy about it. 

[JDelage]

The problem is not the delay. The problems are (1) lack of communication on said delay, (2) pre-payment, (3) price changes over time, which means that new orders are a lot more profitable to the maker than older orders.

This is a problem that is found in all manners of craft. The only way I have seen it work is like this: the craftsperson / artist takes names, and maybe a small amount ($100) to hold a spot. When the customer's name comes up, the maker finalizes details & pricing. Customer pays 1/2, waits a couple weeks, and pays the other 1/2 before item is shipped.

[Broark]

Looks at the Ship John Wills jacket. He got so many orders and cut things off and he’s still not accepting new orders because he doesn’t want to get into the same position at WH Ranch. Sure you can keep orders open, take people’s money with no guarantee of ever receiving the product and pocket the cash. But he decided not to do that which is commendable. 

[Maynard Friedman]

@JDelage - I totally disagree with you. If there was no delay, there would be no primary problem. Those further problems you mention are simply a subset of secondary problems arising from the delay.

[edmond]

Dont trust k-pop artist  i tell you

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by edmond
superfuture told me to do something about this