Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[reallypeacedoff]

I have never been outside Superdenim, so I have no idea what Superfuture would mean to an outsider. I regularly see Acronym at the top of the homepage, so I always thought it was a forum that catered to high fashion with some denim sprinkled in the cracks. I can safely say that my fashion sense encompasses a relatively large range of styles, one that doesn't really include "triple denim" nor "goth crop." I could say I'm an outsider to many fits in the denim community but I appreciate all of it, though. Just because someone's style wouldn't fit me doesn't mean I don't think it looks good on them.

[rbeck]

1 hour ago, willi said:

Putting on 1000 dollars of heritage workwear today to work from home and shitpost about rick owens.

Really puts it into perspective that none of this really matters. 

[AlientoyWorkmachine]

2 hours ago, kiya said:

This is something I'd love to write a long form article about some day... the idea that Fashion brands are so serious while smaller more classic brands have "fun" or humor built into their collections.  From my experience it's the exact opposite.  The brands which are very serious about what they do with very little humor involved are the ones which Superdenim cherishes.  Where as brands that don't take themselves so seriously when it comes to the brand personality are Fashion brands.    

Rick Owens is a perfect example of this, where absolutely nothing he does is without a strong sense of humor.  It's a ridiculous clothing line run by a guy who finds humor in the most perverse and unexpected places, as he says himself "when the world is on fire the least we can do is laugh at ourselves".   I think from a topical level, without any understanding of what the brand is truly about, it's very easy to think that a brand like Rick Owens takes itself so seriously, is all about doom and gloom, etc.. It also doesn't help that Rick is lumped in with dark fashion brands who do take themselves very seriously like MA+, Label Under Construction, Julius, and Viridi-anne.  

You should. I'd love to read it.

And it's great to hear.

My experience has been the opposite - and it comes from the side of being a photographer (another industry where an assumed hierarchy loves to exploit workers in legally dubious ways and then tell themselves they're actually helping them out by bestowing deep knowledge), but of course that's only my experience. 

All I will say is that - and this is just for me - the explanation you give to the RO line doesn't translate in what I see in the way that they market, style, and model their stuff. Perhaps it goes over my head - this is quite likely even, and I'm fine with that. But perhaps it's also a failure to communicate. Either way, it's a breakdown. That's going to happen in any medium of creative expression for some message senders and receivers. Of course maybe I would know more if anything I saw from RO made me want to learn about the brand, but it very much doesn't, so why would I? Even if it's a joke it looks like the sort that just isn't my flavor, and it doesn't have to be! 

That said, I'm all people doing their thing and making it work (whether it's the designer or the wearer).

Responding a little more generally, I don't think saying something isn't to one's taste is shit talking though. Character denigration, sure. That's not cool. Art ≠ artist and all. 

Edited November 12 by AlientoyWorkmachine

[Double 0 Soul]

2 hours ago, willi said:

Putting on 1000 dollars of heritage workwear today to work from home and shitpost about rick owens.

I only shitpost about RO from my freezing cold workshop with water leaking through the roof and mould growing up the walls.. keeps it in perspective.

[julian-wolf]

2 hours ago, willi said:

Putting on 1000 dollars of heritage workwear today to work from home and shitpost about rick owens.

Better that than putting on $1000 of Rick Owens wares to shitpost about jeans…you’d still be 3/4 naked

[Maynard Friedman]

I put on $4k of Rick to sign on the dole and bitch about Hermes.

[Double 0 Soul]

I hear a lot of folks giving me reasons why they think i should like RO.. but y'all just need to appreciate that we have our own personal tastes.. those tastes can be complicated, they evolve, i hate things for bizarre reasons, i love things for bizarre reasons, we all do

I don't say you should like this music because they don't take themselves too seriously or you should like this food because it's somebody's vision or this film because it was indipendantly produced, there are some things we like, there are some things we don't, we're not all the same..

..as i've said, some of the RO stuff looks great, some of it doesn't, some folks can make a good outfit look bad, some folks can make a bad outfit look good.. on a public forum, you need to allow people opinions and accept you may not share these opinions and 'reasons why' are not going to change peoples personal tastes.

[Double 0 Soul]

In other news.. The boy and I have just been down to Unit for some burgers 😋

..first time i've had a Mexican cola

..man, i'm stuffed!

[youngofthesoonest]

It took me a little bit to understand the humor in a lot of Rick Owens' stuff but it's one of the more fun brands where a lot of the designs are intentionally humorous in all sorts of ways. I mean how you can create this sweatshirt and not think it's funny?

Coming from my experience where I haven't really change the way I dress in the last 15 years and I still tend to lean more towards the simple very "normal" looking clothes for the most part, it's been really a eye opening experience to learn more about brands outside of the ones I knew well.

I've been fortunate enough now to have spent the last 5-6 years going to showrooms for all the self edge brands and it's really interesting to spend days looking and discussing SDA, flat head, samurai, iron heart, etc and then (often times on the same days) go into showrooms with brands like Rick Owens, devoa, rigards, the viridi-anne, motiv, etc.

While obviously atheistically they seem like that they have nothing in common, they actually all share very similar viewpoints in how much they pay attention to fabrics, treatment or lack of treatment of the materials, and the really intricate understanding of how something should be constructed.

I think of it like two sides of the same coin where you have one side with brands that are more conservative and/or rigid when to comes to deviating from the source material and the love and passion for what they do comes from staying close to the originals and just making their best version of that and then flip over to the other side where you have a group of brands that understand the source material and history but find interest and joy in deviating and pushing designs in different ways. 

Like with all genres of clothing brands/styles, there are a lot of brands that I think are no good and are actually shit but I think at least for me, I've got this reinvigorated love for this stuff and it's helped me feel less serious and defensive when I see styles that deviate from the norm. While I still love seeing another version of a Type I and straight leg jean in a deep indigo denim, it's a nice balance to then also experience brands that make something a little more out there but still made as well as the stuff I'm used to wearing. 

1 hour ago, Double 0 Soul said:

 

..man, i'm stuffed!

Some would say this is the Rick Owens of burgers. (it looks delicious) 

[Maynard Friedman]

Genuine question here. I think we’ve been pushed a message over the years via retailers such as Self Edge that Japanese ‘repro’ or heritage style brands such as the Flat Head, Iron Heart, Warehouse, Samurai, etc (plus others like Mister Freedom) are the pinnacle of craftsmanship and quality materials for denim, sweatshirts, flannels, work shirts, etc. This is why they are so expensive compared with the general dross worn by the average mall or high street consumer. Prices that many would baulk at and I’m sure have caused some folk to underplay the real cost of an item to their partners, parents, friends. Obviously, those of us on this forum will not be fazed by this kind of thing!

Anyway, if that is the case, what’s the justification for example, for Rick Owens jeans being priced at $800-1200 compared to $300-400 for premium Japanese brands or $1200 for a Rick Owens flannel compared with $300-400 for other Self Edge brands? Do the Rick Owens ones have even better materials and higher standards of (Japanese) finishing/craftsmanship? After all, these appear to be very similar items in terms of both design and fabric.

I assume that the retailer is probably just making its standard mark-up so the price is dictated by the brand. Is the higher price a surcharge for that unique sense of humour (even though I think the Self Edge range is at the more serious end) or non-standard patterning or is it just what’s to be expected for an upmarket designer brand, even for their more mainstream collections?

[kiya]

30 minutes ago, Maynard Friedman said:

Genuine question here. I think we’ve been pushed a message over the years via retailers such as Self Edge that Japanese ‘repro’ or heritage style brands such as the Flat Head, Iron Heart, Warehouse, Samurai, etc (plus others like Mister Freedom) are the pinnacle of craftsmanship and quality materials for denim, sweatshirts, flannels, work shirts, etc. This is why they are so expensive compared with the general dross worn by the average mall or high street consumer. Prices that many would baulk at and I’m sure have caused some folk to underplay the real cost of an item to their partners, parents, friends. Obviously, those of us on this forum will not be fazed by this kind of thing!

Anyway, if that is the case, what’s the justification for example, for Rick Owens jeans being priced at $800-1200 compared to $300-400 for premium Japanese brands or $1200 for a Rick Owens flannel compared with $300-400 for other Self Edge brands? Do the Rick Owens ones have even better materials and higher standards of (Japanese) finishing/craftsmanship? After all, these appear to be very similar items in terms of both design and fabric.

I assume that the retailer is probably just making its standard mark-up so the price is dictated by the brand. Is the higher price a surcharge for that unique sense of humour (even though I think the Self Edge range is at the more serious end) or non-standard patterning or is it just what’s to be expected for an upmarket designer brand, even for their more mainstream collections?

The very short and simple answer to this is that brands like Rick Owens have a larger margin in place for both themselves AND their retailers, plus they spend a bit more on hardware/tags/packaging compared to your average Japanese denim brand.  Those three things combined are the reason the prices are so high, without getting into the details of it, there's not much more to it.

[jkbrwn]

I guess its no different to other designer brands - but at least RO seems to be well made and interesting unlike the dross coming out of other large conglomerate owned fashion houses.

Edited November 13 by jkbrwn

[tooth]

Every time I see my Dad he makes some kind of remark re: my Merz zip hoodie and what it cost (luckily it’s the only thing in my closet he has any idea around) and how many of his sweatshirts he could have bought. But I love it and love wearing it.

Isn’t a lot of this just where and in what we see value? The way we want to be perceived, or maybe fit in.

This kind feels like a conversation around a $5k Chanel handbag, or spending some ungodly amount on a car.

Edited November 13 by tooth

[Maynard Friedman]

17 minutes ago, kiya said:

The very short and simple answer to this is that brands like Rick Owens have a larger margin in place for both themselves AND their retailers, plus they spend a bit more on hardware/tags/packaging compared to your average Japanese denim brand.  Those three things combined are the reason the prices are so high, without getting into the details of it, there's not much more to it.

I appreciate your candid response Kiya and understand its brevity. I didn’t actually expect you to answer due to brand confidentiality etc but dangled it out there for anyone with a knowledge of this type of retail to chime in. So thank you.

[Double 0 Soul]

I think you've forgot to take the coat hanger out @youngofthesoonest ..  but i get it

It's a good looking outfit for someone working in the fashion industry, no good in my leaky workshop (lifestyle is the driving force behind everything i wear) what i get less is is the grey RO flannel which could work for me but it's $1335 and looks no different to a vintage Woolrich flannel i bought for £18, i think, if you're going to splurge, you might as well buy a statement piece if you can pull it off.. unlike the dude on the previous page.. his outfit just screams intervention order

I also appreciate that SE is a retailer, your success depends on the sale of your goods, we wouldn't expect any SE staff to be entirely objective.. like the car salesperson who uses words like fun or quirky when what they really mean is unattractive.. it's lucky that you like RO clothing because you have to believe in it to sell it.. something i could never do... I'd get sacked from SE in no time

[Maynard Friedman]

32 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

like the car salesperson who uses words like fun or quirky when what they really mean is unattractive

I think you’re confusing that with my Tinder profile!

[Double 0 Soul]

I used to have a collection of vintage Air Jordans.. when i posted them here, maynard didn't like any of them! but i wasn't going to spend days trying to convince him otherwise or justify my reasons for liking them.. i just accepted it

*deep inside tho, im still very angry about it

[youngofthesoonest]

12 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

it's lucky that you like RO clothing because you have to believe in it to sell it.. something i could never do... I'd get sacked from SE in no time

any employee who speaks poorly of Rick Owens publicly or privately is made to sit on a metal uncomfortable chair in a dark chamber listening to music that alternates between romantic era classical music and abrasive industrial music until they come out looking like a ninja alien.

we do a similar thing if someone speaks ill of Toyo except they're made to sit in an almost period correct 1950s bedroom complete with asbestos in the drywall and made to listen to rockabilly until they come out wearing a full denim tux.

we take things very seriously. 

 

[Double 0 Soul]

Brilliant!

I thought this discussion was sunk.. but you've managed to save it with a lifebuoy of a post

Well done sir! 👏

[youngofthesoonest]

it's that high priced Rick Owens type of humor. 

[Double 0 Soul]

Stop trying to win me over, you!

[youngofthesoonest]

3 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Stop trying to win me over, you!

I won't stop until you look like this

[Double 0 Soul]

Ah fuck.. i finally get it, this is how you sell those horrible pumps, it's got nothing to do with the way they look and everything to do with the charm..

[Maynard Friedman]

12 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

I used to have a collection of vintage Air Jordans.. when i posted them here, maynard didn't like any of them! but i wasn't going to spend days trying to convince him otherwise or justify my reasons for liking them.. i just accepted it

*deep inside tho, im still very angry about it

I think I’d even take those Rick Owens boots over Jordans 🤣

[youngofthesoonest]

18 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

horrible pumps

Looks like someone needs more time in the chamber of dark tears. 

[CSL]

8 hours ago, youngofthesoonest said:

we do a similar thing if someone speaks ill of Toyo except they're made to sit in an almost period correct 1950s bedroom complete with asbestos in the drywall and made to listen to rockabilly until they come out wearing a full denim tux.

 

 

During the ensuing trance I experienced an eerily accurate vision of the future...

[Double 0 Soul]

On 11/12/2024 at 6:17 PM, reallypeacedoff said:

 Just because someone's style wouldn't fit me doesn't mean I don't think it looks good on them.

Sorry for the late reply.. missed this

Absolutely, but you've also got to appreciate that people can make a style look bad.. ie- a cheap suit can look amazing on a sexy M&S model and an expensive suit can look terrible on a silicone valley tech-bro, buying an expensive item, isn't enough to make it look good.. i'd see this all the time in the MF thread over on DB, folks would spend a kings ransom on an ill fitting CPO shirt.. then turn the cuffs back so they'd have these massive mermaid cuffs flapping in the wind like Paul Hollywood from The Great British Bake Off.. whereas other forum peeps with a bit more style made them look dope!

JJs grandma (previous pg) looks like a middle aged Primark shopper (i'd guess at Susan or Deborah) Friday night, Dove & Rainbow, couple of pints of Carling and blackcurrant, bit of Whitesnake on the jukebox.. flirt with the kebab vendor.. i'm not sure this is the image he was trying to project when he was spending £1000s on his RO outfit.. Tragic really.. yet someone with a bit of style could make it look good...

Same story with the oiversized RO boots and tucked jeans which you previously mentioned.

[MJF9]

One man's cool is another man's uncool and vice-verse!

[Maynard Friedman]

He’s not my uncle!

[JohnM]

I've had a gin & tonic, but have to admit that this thread is entertaining.  Penis balcony -- a phrase to hang onto.