Shoes that look better with age...

[Cold Summer]

I can see how that could be the case @Duke Mantee - however, I'll say that my two pairs of Wesco engineers in the MP last are the best-fitting boots I've ever worn, and really only a bespoke shoe would be an improvement over that. But I do feel my feet are a somewhat unusual shape - low instep, low profile, small ankles, but somewhat long. Also, my right foot is slightly larger and fills out the boot a little more than the left, but the right boot also has more rolling going on. I'm sure the individual qualities of the particular piece of horsehide used for the vamp is a big part of that as well.

It makes me wonder if Clinch's pursuit of a particular rolling-focused aging originated in Japanese enthusiasts wearing vintage engineer boots that didn't exactly fit their feet just right (given the relative lack of choice you have for fine-tuning your fit when trying vintage boots), and sort of took on a life of its own in becoming a desirable characteristic - along the same lines as denim's fading or Union Special 43200G roping originally being defects, but now constitute idealized features.

I'd be unhappy with such mismatched boots as in the above S&S product photo - but it's easy enough to avoid, just go with the Chromexcel version, which is not just cheaper but regular and predictable in terms of grain. When you go with the Shinki ones you're sort of taking a higher risk/higher reward approach. I hate how black Chromexcel looks on boots like this and didn't mind taking the risk, but I'm in the minority there.

Edited January 10 by Cold Summer

[Duke Mantee]

@Cold Summer I’ve no issue about rolls or creases as such (much like denim fades and creases you rightly reference too) - all leather will crease, can’t be avoided - but leather generally has the least impact v. where the leather sits on the foot and the gait.

Anyway, some folk are happy to buy what’s offered (rolls, combs, teacore, whatever) - I’ve a lot less interest in that, other than thinking about why/what/how. Diff'rent Strokes …

I’ve got the Lofgren CXL from way back - they’re fine, but I agree that CXL is fairly nondescript although I do also think that horsehide has been put on a pedestal simply because the sellers tell the buyer something they want to hear.

Edited January 10 by Duke Mantee

[julian-wolf]

I really dislike how shallowly the dye job on the black Shinki horsebutt penetrates. It feels like its primary purpose is to cater to the short attention spans and ultra fast, contrasted patina needs of the same folks that buy 20+ oz. denim and never wash their jeans.

[Cold Summer]

@julian-wolfAre you referring specifically to the one Lofgren uses on these boots, or just in general to "tea core" leather used on boots, eg. Clinch? I can only speak for my particular boots, but it seems as deeply dyed as any other black veg tanned leather and more resistant to scuffs/abrasion color changes than black Chromexcel ones I had in the past; about ten years ago I had Lofgren boots in the black CXL and didn't like how that leather aged. It seemed more susceptible to brown scuffing than this Shinki horsebutt, but YMMV and all that.

I actually couldn't find any evo pics of Lofgren horsebutt boots, though I admit I didn't look real hard. And in the case of some of those Clinch boots with really dramatic color change, I think it's actually Brass that hand-paints the natural-colored hide, which leads to that dramatic patina, so that's probably more on the manufacturer than Shinki.

My Wesco boots have Maryam veg tanned horsehide, and it shows some "tea core" characteristics as well, though it doesn't seem particular exaggerated to me. Admittedly, I am not real hard on my footwear, just wearing them for pretty casual situations. I suspect the "Stitchdown community" or wherever a lot of the crazy patina is coming from, use their footwear in more extreme ways in pursuit of that kind of look. I just wear mine, and however it ends up aging is fine by me.

Worth pointing out that it's not like Shinki makes one type of leather they sell to anybody, but various different types. This is especially evident when it comes to horsehide used for leather jackets, but applies to boot leather as well.

[julian-wolf]

@Cold Summer I’m not referring specifically to the batch(es) used for the Lofgren boots. You’re right that Lofgren may be getting theirs custom with different specs from the standard recipe. My experience has been with the Shinki horsebutt used by Indonesian makers, which I’d imagine is likely stock, and which scuffs very easily.

[Cold Summer]

Oh alright, gotcha. I'm not real familiar with those, but I can see why such brands (and their target clientele) might prefer that look.

[mlwdp]

It looks like Addict boots has decreased their price on their horsehide engineer boots.  Seeing them sell for $700 is a steal (which is probably why they’re not in stock).

[mlwdp]

@BroarkHow about All American Boot co?  They do a size 12 and mostly collab with Glad Hand.

https://www.allamericanboot.com/collections/fashion/products/engineer-boot-1920s-edition
 

 

[Broark]

@mlwdp Oddly enough I remember seeing a pair of these at a Nordstrom Rack years ago.
They were nice enough (don't think they were my size) but some of the stitching and finishing was a little wonky.

[tooth]

One way to combat getting a boot you don’t like the look of is just to contact the shop you want to buy from and have them send pics of the pairs they have in your size. An extra step, but might save a lot of hassle (has for me).

[mlwdp]

Visvim engineer boots in size 12

https://shopcanoeclub.com/products/landers-boots-folk-black?variant=47463275790629&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_source=google&utm_medium=roas&https://shopcanoeclub.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=roas&utm_campaign=PMAXCuAq&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAwP6sBhDAARIsAPfK_wa-38R_sCIluqs7JuY5-lZdPE5O3criX6G7SbBGlD2FzBj31XPilJAaAu2PEALw_wcB

Edited January 11 by mlwdp

[Broark]

At that price you might as well get a pair of Clinch? And aren't all Visvim shoes made in China?

[indigoeagle]

I'd also have a look at Keystone (waiting time about a year, though), Ol Shanks and also Jelado/Two Monkeys.

The first one can probably also manufacture larger sizes. I don't know about the size range of the other two.

[Broark]

No response from Ol Shanks yet sadly, out of all of the brands discussed I like the shape of them the most.
Keystone seems to be a good price honestly.

[mpukas]

What about TFH engineer boots in size 11? They supposedly run 1 size big. 

[Broark]

I'd prefer horsehide (cxl doesn't do much for me) and I can't tell you the last time a size 11 fit my foot.
The smallest boot I wear is an 11.5 in the Viberg 2045 last which is quite full.

[indigoeagle]

39 minutes ago, Broark said:

No response from Ol Shanks yet sadly, out of all of the brands discussed I like the shape of them the most.
Keystone seems to be a good price honestly.

Ol Shanks looks really nice.
Michiya Suzuki really does a great job.

I found Mr Okuyama from Fukurokuju very friendly.
There is just the waiting time. But you might be lucky and he has a pair in your size in stock.
But I don't think, that horse hide is standard. But perhaps he can also offer that.

Makers and Attractions/Biltrite are also great looking. As of course also Clinch.

Edited January 11 by indigoeagle

[Broark]

Ideally I wouldn't mind waiting for a pair of Ol Shanks, but that seems like a pipe dream.
I think I'll either wait for a pair of Attractions in size 12 to pop up or another round of Clinch.
No response from anyone I've reached out to yet, but we'll see. I'm in no rush.

[mpukas]

Seen the TFH short cordovan engineer boots SE has in stock? 11.5, again supposedly run 1/2 - 1 size bigger than brannock size 

[Broark]

I think I'm after a full length boot, either 9" or 11" in height.

[mpukas]

I'm on the fence about the short shaft height. It's practical, and easier to get on. A 9" - 11" typical shaft looks cool in pics when not being worn. But for the most part unless you're shoveling coal into a furnace in the engine room on a locomotive, there's not much practical reason. 

😁

[mpukas]

I agree about Lofgren's being extremely difficult to get on. I, too, have the Devil's Causeway and it's a real struggle to get them on. Once on, they're comfortable. But I can't wear them if I'll be walking and/or standing a lot. A heel that tall hurts my feet badly. 

[mpukas]

@Broark What about a custom maker? Do you know Quan on IG. I think his work looks very nice. He's done some engineers: 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C0ki38wvkKI/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link 

Edited January 12 by mpukas

[mlwdp]

1 hour ago, mpukas said:

I'm on the fence about the short shaft height. It's practical, and easier to get on. A 9" - 11" typical shaft looks cool in pics when not being worn. But for the most part unless you're shoveling coal into a furnace in the engine room on a locomotive, there's not much practical reason. 

😁

Riding motorcycles.

[tooth]

@Broark since we’re throwing every maker out there and you’re willing to wait, what about Kreosote… you’ll be psyched in 4 years.

[Duke Mantee]

https://www.horsemanjoe.jp/shoesboots.html

[Broark]

10 hours ago, mpukas said:

@Broark What about a custom maker? Do you know Quan on IG. I think his work looks very nice. He's done some engineers: 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C0ki38wvkKI/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link 

These look nice, not a bad option! The leather looks very shiny though (honestly all his boots appear very shiny).

8 hours ago, tooth said:

@Broark since we’re throwing every maker out there and you’re willing to wait, what about Kreosote… you’ll be psyched in 4 years.

Yeesh, full payment up front and a 4+ year wait? I'm patient but I don't know about that...

57 minutes ago, Duke Mantee said:

https://www.horsemanjoe.jp/shoesboots.html

I've thought about buying some sandals from HJ in the past. Wonder if they have any other leather options besides CXL.

Skoob got back to me. They can have a pair custom made for me with about a 6 month lead time.
Pricing is reasonable, ¥79,000 + shipping. These are in contention.

And Attractions has told me to reach out to a US retailer (S&S, SOP or Brogue). They have a large backlog for JP buyers so they aren't shipping the Lot 444 internationally.
Nothing wrong with that, might see if any of them have plans to order the Lot 444 in size 12 soon.

[Duke Mantee]

@Broark I know HJ offered Japanese tanned leathers (probably Himeji) as well as Wickett & Craig latigo - I guess there would be more than that but maybe best to ask. What leather do you want?

[Tapori]

....

Edited January 12 by Tapori

[Broark]

27 minutes ago, Duke Mantee said:

What leather do you want?

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure. I probably know more of what I don't want than what I do.
I know we've discussed the "merits" of a lot of tea-core horsehide. I don't want something so exaggerated as this, I find these garish and over the top:

However I do want leather that go from this, a nice dark black:

To this after several years of wear: