Levi's Vintage Clothing

[blm14]

The reason I asked was that I am trying to ascertain if there is any value in order LVC from japan, or if I'll essentially get the same exact product (only differences being sizing ones which, being a size 38, are essentially a non-issue for me) if I order from cultizm or somewhere in the UK.

If only there were places in the states I could get them with any regularity...

[Leonard Leroy]

1955s grafted to my legs

[amills2]

Anyone out there picked up the 1930's Wool Shirt from last season's collection (the red/black one)? It's on sale for around $100 at a few places online, and I was thinking about picking it up. Still don't know if that's a bargain though. Would be interested in any opinions/reviews/pics anyone has.

[Supawiwi]

Here is the pic of our small LVC store in Paris. Like I said, the entire announced LVC range is present but they also carry some of the Levi's Red collection, and the orange tab which seems to be part of the LVC. Not much interesting, but they seem to have a fair amount of pieces in stock contrary to the other Levi's stores we have.

[blm14]

How is it that Paris has more levis options than anyplace in the US, where levis are made?! ARGH!

[JacoBlue]

(Xpost from evo)

okay heres my 4 months LVC 1937 no washes 3 soaks

anyone who likes em?

[setterman]

How is it that Paris has more levis options than anyplace in the US, where levis are made?! ARGH!

Because the majority of US consumers don't want expensive, shrink to fit, turn my clothes blue, button fly, leg twist, jeans. Simple as that. Sure, there are folks like ourselves that they can sell jeans to, but why put forth effort to sell a few thousand pairs of expensive jeans in a market that wants, and you can flood, with millions of pairs of cheap pre-distressed jeans? Most American's want what's popular now, and what's cheap. Their lack of taste makes life more difficult for the rest of their countrymen. Thank god for cultizm, and that they stock sizes bigger than 36. Halfway across the world and he can get jeans to me as quick as any place inside the US.

[jdavis]

What's the name/address of your store Supawiwi - I'd love to send a friend of mine to check it out!

Here is the pic of our small LVC store in Paris. Like I said, the entire announced LVC range is present but they also carry some of the Levi's Red collection, and the orange tab which seems to be part of the LVC. Not much interesting, but they seem to have a fair amount of pieces in stock contrary to the other Levi's stores we have.

[Guest jbone45]

Anyone out there picked up the 1930's Wool Shirt from last season's collection (the red/black one)? It's on sale for around $100 at a few places online, and I was thinking about picking it up. Still don't know if that's a bargain though. Would be interested in any opinions/reviews/pics anyone has.

I like most of those shirts that got marked down, but I don't know if $100 is still justified. None of the tops are made in the U.S.A either which is like half the reason I buy something next to how it fits.

[Guest DCDenim]

Because the majority of US consumers don't want expensive, shrink to fit, turn my clothes blue, button fly, leg twist, jeans. Simple as that. Sure, there are folks like ourselves that they can sell jeans to, but why put forth effort to sell a few thousand pairs of expensive jeans in a market that wants, and you can flood, with millions of pairs of cheap pre-distressed jeans? Most American's want what's popular now, and what's cheap. Their lack of taste makes life more difficult for the rest of their countrymen. Thank god for cultizm, and that they stock sizes bigger than 36. Halfway across the world and he can get jeans to me as quick as any place inside the US.

lolwut? yeah nobody in america wants raw or premium predistressed denim...

@ben, I was going to say the same thing, levis have been around here since the 1800s and now we have to go to EU to get our own shit back?!

[setterman]

lolwut? yeah nobody in america wants raw or premium predistressed denim...

I didn't say "nobody", I said the majority of American consumers do not want premium raw denim. For every one person who'd walk store and plunk down $200 for a pair of LVC 501s, hundreds is not thousands more would spend $30 on a pair 505s or 550s, or $60 or those horrible pre-distressed fashion jeans they sell now. So, how many stores and shelf space are they going to devote in the US to the LVC line?

Premium denim is a limited market, and Levis knows that. They also know that the LVC line, the Levis name, and "American made" have more value over seas than it does in the US. It's frustrating to not be able to walk into a store and try on jeans from shelves full of LVC 501s, but I completely understand that that is an unrealistic expectation.

Oh, and the store in question is in Paris. Can't think of a better city in Europe to try to sell classic American jeans. There'd be something wrong if there wasn't a shop there!

[doctorgnar]

I didn't say "nobody", I said the majority of American consumers do not want premium raw denim. For every one person who'd walk store and plunk down $200 for a pair of LVC 501s, hundreds is not thousands more would spend $30 on a pair 505s or 550s, or $60 or those horrible pre-distressed fashion jeans they sell now. So, how many stores and shelf space are they going to devote in the US to the LVC line?

Premium denim is a limited market, and Levis knows that. They also know that the LVC line, the Levis name, and "American made" have more value over seas than it does in the US. It's frustrating to not be able to walk into a store and try on jeans from shelves full of LVC 501s, but I completely understand that that is an unrealistic expectation.

Oh, and the store in question is in Paris. Can't think of a better city in Europe to try to sell classic American jeans. There'd be something wrong if there wasn't a shop there!

You're overlooking the importance of branding and brand image. For a company like Levis, every product is not a profit-maker. They need to produce high quality, limited run, more progressive styles in addition to the mass market lines in order to retain a certain brand identity/prestige. They probably lose money on the LVC line, but if it keeps the Levis name in the minds of the right people, and on the shelves at the right stores internationally, it's well worth it.

[blm14]

I think what it comes down to is "what is levi's target market?" You can be the guy who sells tons of volume at small margin and make money that way. You can also be the guy who sells small limited runs of very expensive things and make a lot of money on markup.

So, the question is, is levis the cheap-for-the-masses brand, or the fashion brand. To date, it appears the answer has been "both." This is all well and good but I think they haven't targeted the right markets. For example it's NUTS to sell LVC products in a Levi's store where 95% of the items being sold sell for less than $60.

I bet that if Levi's kept LVC sales to high-profile wholesale accounts like Saks, and a handful of flagship LVC stores (that ONLY sell LVC) in major US cities, they would make money off of it.

[Shorty Long]

They've tried this and I guess it didn't work for one reason or another. Having LVC at ALL Levi stores in the US was only a recent thing. It used to be that LVC was only available in the NYC and SF Flagship Levi stores, in addition to stores like Barney's. They also had an LVC/Red-only store in NYC and it closed 5 or 6 years ago.

I think what it comes down to is "what is levi's target market?" You can be the guy who sells tons of volume at small margin and make money that way. You can also be the guy who sells small limited runs of very expensive things and make a lot of money on markup.

So, the question is, is levis the cheap-for-the-masses brand, or the fashion brand. To date, it appears the answer has been "both." This is all well and good but I think they haven't targeted the right markets. For example it's NUTS to sell LVC products in a Levi's store where 95% of the items being sold sell for less than $60.

I bet that if Levi's kept LVC sales to high-profile wholesale accounts like Saks, and a handful of flagship LVC stores (that ONLY sell LVC) in major US cities, they would make money off of it.

[setterman]

You're overlooking the importance of branding and brand image. For a company like Levis, every product is not a profit-maker. They need to produce high quality, limited run, more progressive styles in addition to the mass market lines in order to retain a certain brand identity/prestige. They probably lose money on the LVC line, but if it keeps the Levis name in the minds of the right people, and on the shelves at the right stores internationally, it's well worth it.

I don't disagree at all. If we disagree on anything, it might be on the weight the Levis brand carries in the US market, which in my opinion, isn't much, and I don't think branding through the LVC line would help that.

Now, having LVC jeans in London, Paris, Tokyo, I'd say that's very important for the brand and it's image in those markets. Should the US market be abandoned in favor of those forgien markets? Well, I don't expect to find LVC 501s on JC Penny's shelves, but I should be able to purchase anything from the line on levis.com

[Curious_George]

I didn't say "nobody", I said the majority of American consumers do not want premium raw denim. For every one person who'd walk store and plunk down $200 for a pair of LVC 501s, hundreds is not thousands more would spend $30 on a pair 505s or 550s, or $60 or those horrible pre-distressed fashion jeans they sell now. So, how many stores and shelf space are they going to devote in the US to the LVC line?

I don't think that's it. I believe Nudie has done fairly well in the US pushing their premium raw denim (not going to argue whether they're jeans are good or not but they're still in the premium category). You're right that a lot of premium denim in the US is still distressed stuff. Americans on the whole seem much slower at adopting trends than Europe. But Levi's LVC line often has some distressed pieces too, and if it was just that Americans didn't want raw denim I'm sure Levi's would be pushing all their distressed LVC pieces here instead. The real problem is that the majority of Americans can't be convinced to pay a premium for Levi's. We'll pay a premium for Italian or Swedish denim because there is a perception that you're getting something more "stylish" and "elusive" than you would with a common American brand. And if it's a young and hip American brand it may do well until it becomes too ubiqutious.

I think it's a very hard sell for a brand like Levi's to convince American consumers that they should not only still buy Levi's when there are "cooler" brands out there (in the American consumers eye) but that they should pay a premium when you can find Levi's at Wal-mart for $25. The brand just doesn't hold the reputation it once did in America. It's not really recognized as it was in the past as a source for high quality work wear (it's hard to convince Americans of that when you're selling made in Mexico jeans at Wal-mart for 25, even if people are buying them) and it's not really thought of as a source for fashionable denim either. And maybe it's just America, but I don't think heritage is something most young consumers really care about. The brand image as a whole has also become rather diluted I think. They've kind of incompetently introduced themselves as a premium denim source but never really comitted to it, while at the same time cheapening their image with even lower end lines for mass market. They haven't done a very good job at positioning themselves to even be considered as a choice for premium denim in the US. So to me it's no real wonder they can't find the sales to keep LVC going here. It's partially their own fault.

[Shorty Long]

Boom...nail on the head stuff right here.

I don't think that's it. I believe Nudie has done fairly well in the US pushing their premium raw denim (not going to argue whether they're jeans are good or not but they're still in the premium category). You're right that a lot of premium denim in the US is still distressed stuff. Americans on the whole seem much slower at adopting trends than Europe. But Levi's LVC line often has some distressed pieces too, and if it was just that Americans didn't want raw denim I'm sure Levi's would be pushing all their distressed LVC pieces here instead. The real problem is that the majority of Americans can't be convinced to pay a premium for Levi's. We'll pay a premium for Italian or Swedish denim because there is a perception that you're getting something more "stylish" and "elusive" than you would with a common American brand. And if it's a young and hip American brand it may do well until it becomes too ubiqutious.

I think it's a very hard sell for a brand like Levi's to convince American consumers that they should not only still buy Levi's when there are "cooler" brands out there (in the American consumers eye) but that they should pay a premium when you can find Levi's at Wal-mart for $25. The brand just doesn't hold the reputation it once did in America. It's not really recognized as it was in the past as a source for high quality work wear (it's hard to convince Americans of that when you're selling made in Mexico jeans at Wal-mart for 25, even if people are buying them) and it's not really thought of as a source for fashionable denim either. And maybe it's just America, but I don't think heritage is something most young consumers really care about. The brand image as a whole has also become rather diluted I think. They've kind of incompetently introduced themselves as a premium denim source but never really comitted to it, while at the same time cheapening their image with even lower end lines for mass market. They haven't done a very good job at positioning themselves to even be considered as a choice for premium denim in the US. So to me it's no real wonder they can't find the sales to keep LVC going here. It's partially their own fault.

[Supawiwi]

What's the name/address of your store Supawiwi - I'd love to send a friend of mine to check it out!

21 rue Vieille du Temple

75004 Paris

Métro Saint Paul

[Supawiwi]

Don't worry guys, Europe is not an exeption. People here are not much into raw denim either. When I had my first pair of raw denim it was a big boom made by edwin and LVC and as funny as it is, many of the raw denim buyers wanted their jeans to remain raw and not fade at all.

I think it's just that people in Europe are more willing to spend a high amount of money for a hype brand and quality clothes. But for sure, 3/4 of the LVC buyers are not looking for a nice pair of jeans they will age.

Also, like clothing is a lot more expansive in Europe, brands don't seem that much expensive. For example, the cheapest 501 you can find in the US is around 30$, for us it's more like 70€, almost 90$. So we're more willing to spend double the price in a nice pair of jeans than that much for shitty jeans.

But I must say people are getting more and more into it because it's coming from Japan. And they're starting to know more about it. I even saw a pair of FLAT HEAD!!! I was incredibly chocked hahaha!! Nobody understand me when I say I wear only one pair of jeans for one year or more.

It's all about trends and quality/price

[blm14]

You must spread rep around before attempting to slather it all over Curious_George's words again

[jdavis]

thanks Supawiwi - whats your store called? Sounds like a great location...

21 rue Vieille du Temple

75004 Paris

Métro Saint Paul

[Supawiwi]

^that's a LVC store

[Guest DCDenim]

@setterman, the US has been going crazy over premium denim for the past 10 years, I don't know where you live, but kids in middle school around here wear $300 jeans these days. Sure the masses still wear $10 jeans but it's ignorant to say levis is failing because 'masses (copout)' don't want premium jeans.

Also like it was mentioned, the brand has spread itself too thin and when you think levis you think '$40' jeans and a lot of people aren't comfortable spending a lot on that kind of brand image. I don't think it has to do with people losing interest in american vintage, as the RRL line sells really well because it is very exclusive and found in only a handful of boutiques at a relatively high price point.

On top of this, the failing economy and movement away from denim to other menswear is also making things harder for levis to sell their premium products.

Personally I would rather spend $$$ on the low end products of an exclusive, high end label than $$$ on the high end products of a budget label.

[airfrogusmc]

The reason I asked was that I am trying to ascertain if there is any value in order LVC from japan, or if I'll essentially get the same exact product (only differences being sizing ones which, being a size 38, are essentially a non-issue for me) if I order from cultizm or somewhere in the UK.

If only there were places in the states I could get them with any regularity...

I say score some of those old 555 1947s that are NWT from Dejan.

[airfrogusmc]

@setterman, the US has been going crazy over premium denim for the past 10 years, I don't know where you live, but kids in middle school around here wear $300 jeans these days. Sure the masses still wear $10 jeans but it's ignorant to say levis is failing because 'masses (copout)' don't want premium jeans.

Also like it was mentioned, the brand has spread itself too thin and when you think levis you think '$40' jeans and a lot of people aren't comfortable spending a lot on that kind of brand image. I don't think it has to do with people losing interest in american vintage, as the RRL line sells really well because it is very exclusive and found in only a handful of boutiques at a relatively high price point.

On top of this, the failing economy and movement away from denim to other menswear is also making things harder for levis to sell their premium products.

Personally I would rather spend $$$ on the low end products of an exclusive, high end label than $$$ on the high end products of a budget label.

Those #s aren't being reflected in sales of LVC at the Levis stores according to the manager at the Chicago Mich ave store. She said sales of LVC is flat at best.

[electrum]

After a bar room brawl broke out following my post about denim terminology, I decided to get the hell out of Dodge and lay low for a while...lol. Now that the dust settled, I thought I'd sneak back and apologize for opening up such a big can of worms. However, you guys did manage to clear up some of the grey areas while some still remain pretty grey. One thing is certain though, regardless of what they are called, be it rigid, dry, raw or deadstock, get the jeans that work best for you and just enjoy the damn things.

[electrum]

Much has been written here about the superior quality of the 1920's 555issue denim -- with some saying it's the best LVC denim produced so far. I missed an opportunity to get a pair of original new '20 201 555's on ebay recently. Does anyone know how rare original new deadstock '20 201 555's are? Also, are the current '20 201's the same quality denim as the 555 versions?

[Paul T]

Pretty much indistinguishable.

THey are good denim, maybe great... I don't know if it's the best so far, it's so much a question of horses for courses.

201 thread, including 555 and 2006 jeans

They are lovely denim. But they need heavy wear, so bear that in mind, way slower to fade than the 1901 or 1933 501. As far as the best denim, who knows? My faves would include the original NEvada, the 1901 and the 1955. But then I saw some of the 66 at Cone, and how closely they've replicated an original & thought that looked damn cool too.

.

[ChuckO]

In regard to the marketing of LVC in the U.S. I think everybody had a lot of great ideas and points. The way I would do it if I was Levi would be to:

1. Get the avg. price into the $75 - $100 range especially on the 47's and 55's if possible. Levi's in it's classic period was about quality for reasonable cost and I think they would make up in volume at that price.

2. Open LVC stores in major US cities to sell selvedge jeans as above and classic American cool like the Japanese stores in the mold of somewhere between Samurai and especially The Real McCoy. Leather jackets, windbreakers, classics sweats, etc.

3. Tone down the dust bowl arty aspect of the marketing in the US and promote the J. Dean, Brando, McQueen, Newman American cool factor especially now with Obama bringing the Kennedyesqe thing back.

[DrMoBueno]

Those #s aren't being reflected in sales of LVC at the Levis stores according to the manager at the Chicago Mich ave store. She said sales of LVC is flat at best.

too much research and common sense, airfrog, dammit this is the internet!