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Acronym.

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24 minutes ago, jasonlao said:

He doesn't need to prove shit to you 

with that thick skull of yours. 

"need" is used here in a conditional sense, not a "HE MUST DO THIS OR ELSE" kind of way, sorry if it came out wrong. Calling me stubborn despite having explained my case AND responding to yours with a sound argument is not working here. 

I agree with the design, materials, etc. It's timeless, no doubt. Compared to Arcteryx (or even tilak)? Harder to prove especially with the huge gap despite the materials and basic functionality. " gimmick"(not just my words) aspects like Ezip and Gpockets have rare use cases and are not 100% provable to be worth said price gap. 

It's especially because ACR experience is so varied that I have doubts over its value. I own a CP4, it's cool and as gimmicky as other pieces and the quality is fine. Of course, the J1A and CP4 are different animals but having seen and felt a J1A first hand it doesn't really "beat", so to speak, other pieces like Arcteryx or ACG by that big of a margin. That plus the "investor bias" that happens due to the jackets being so expensive being taken into consideration makes the case even harder to prove. 

I don't need to buy Riot Division when ACG exists/existed. I'm just making my voice heard that there are people like me (whether you believe me or not is up to you) that are willing to buy ACR at the right price or value.

Edited by Orientalq

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11 minutes ago, markdjr said:

This is some of the dumbest shit I've seen in the 649 pages of this thread.  No fucking kidding there are people like you who would buy ACR if it were cheaper.  There is no need to prove worth to you or anyone, this is simple economics.  There is a price for these goods and people choose to buy them or not.  You are a person who is choosing not to buy them and are making that declaration on a fan page comprised of people who have chosen to buy.  ACR is a luxury brand, always has been, that is the reality of the situation.  It doesn't matter how many pockets this shit has or how good the tailoring is, it is still just a jacket, or pant or whatever.  Go buy a used gore tex jacket off of ebay and save your money, no big deal, stay warm, stay dry and shut the fuck up.  

If you knew simple economics you would know setting stock to extreme lows at a high price is NOT the way to meet price equilibrium. I can guarantee you J1A at sub-1600 with double the stock would still sell out (and thus more profit). 

I am on this fan page because I like the design (aka I'm a fan) and some ACR used to be priced fairly pre-hype. "Go buy something else and shut the fuck up" is gatekeeping at its finest despite the fact that I have also bought ACR. I would rather speak out and have a chance of any hint of this getting into E's ears than not. 

Liking Acronym and being price-sensitive are not mutually exclusive.

Edited by Orientalq

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14 minutes ago, Orientalq said:

I would rather speak out and have a chance of any hint of this getting into E's ears than not. 

You don’t though, breh, so stop.

17 minutes ago, Orientalq said:

If you knew simple economics you would know setting stock to extreme lows at a high price is NOT the way to meet price equilibrium. 

That’s not how Veblen goods operate under “simple economics”, but go off chief.

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Acronym has never been purely about profit, let alone price equilibrium, I believe Errolson has said this specifically in past interviews.  Increased production is not the goal, even though it is clearly your goal.  The fact that you think ACR was fairly priced at one point and now is not shows how out of touch you are. 

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46 minutes ago, appolez said:

That’s not how Veblen goods operate under “simple economics”, but go off chief.

Veblen goods like Rolls Royces shouldn't go out of stock (at the speed the J1A does). It's clear he's doing this to build/show hype much like how Yeezy's go out of stock. The difference is that his stock is so low that it barely services the demand. Why aren't Rolls Royce Phantoms priced at 3 million? Higher prices mean more demand, right? It's because of stock. They need to sell at a fair price, and yes, if that price allows for the Veblen good to sell more at a higher price, great. But there is no indication that the J1A wouldn't sell out at 1600 with double the stock. It's the same reason the J1A isn't sold for 3k instead of 2k. 

 

42 minutes ago, markdjr said:

 The fact that you think ACR was fairly priced at one point and now is not shows how out of touch you are. 

Not really, others have pointed out how inexpensive ACR has been compared to now. The price hikes have been noticeable. Example: J48-SS @ 627 euros in 2015 vs @ 1512 euros today. 

Increased production is not the goal, which means E is intentionally suffocating supply to gouge enthusiasts for the sake of hype, (or if he is talking about sustainability, but we all know the amount of waste Acr produces is meaningless compared to fast fashion, and such a stock increase would not bring them anywhere close to said phenomenon. Why not instead take proceeds from more stock and really put where his mouth is by investing in new sustainability projects?) Also, more stock = more employees = more profit = better wages. 

Edited by Orientalq

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Sounds like you've got it all figured out, might as well start your own clothing line and show him how its done.

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8 minutes ago, markdjr said:

Sounds like you've got it all figured out, might as well start your own clothing line and show him how its done.

I'm going to get so much hate for this here, but this is enfin leve manifest. Especially with enfin going as far as replacing ACR for some retailers.

But I haven't purchased enfin because I don't support copycats (or reps) either... I buy ACG because I want to support E going mainstream.

I want to see a middleground where ACR reverts the price gouging over the years but stays at a high price (hence why I said J1A at 1500-1600 USD not 1200 or lower which is also profitable). I just don't buy the low stock theory of hype and luxury. 

Edited by Orientalq

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What’s your end goal? If you’ve such a strong critique of how they operate, then just write them an email. Or send the man himself a DM. 

As you lurk here you’ll know you’re not the first to have a point of view on the ACRONYM business model, yet you’ve just haphazardly presented the same lazy critique with an assured confidence that yours is the superior take on things.

Read the room a bit more next time. 

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It sounds like you have ideas which would make Acronym succeed more

Quote

I can guarantee you J1A at sub-1600 with double the stock would still sell out (and thus more profit). 

I understand that you have critiques. It appears to me that you believe that the direction Acronym is currently taking is incorrect, that if they continue on this path they will be less successful because other people (Replica Makers) will show that it can be done cheaper for the "exact product". If this continues then they would go out of business. This doesn't appear to be the case based on their current offerings.

Quote

he's trying to generate hype the same way Supreme does (I hate this so much). 

I don't know if Errolsons ever said that or thats his intention or if they are just a small company that doesn't scale easily. You may be right or wrong. Not enough information.

Quote

He just needs to prove to me it's worth the price tag

I think this is the most important line. He has already proved to you the individual that it is not worth it, which is why you haven't bought it yet even though you are financially capable to. He's proved to other individuals that it is worth it, which is why they own it.

 

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This argument is as old as luxury goods itself. You can easily substitute "Acronym" for "Rolex" in this whole discussion, and even the most experienced watch enthusiasts won't tell the difference.

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aight so does the melange p9-ch get sick fades or nah

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Looking back now.. E made the price hike at the best possible timing in SS18. If customers had an issue with it, we wouldn't have seen the P10's, P24's, S8-DS (think it cost €600 for a tank top), etc sell out so quickly. E was savvy, or cunning if you prefer, in setting the prices closer to resell prices and tested the market and came away a winner.

It's been so ingrained in our heads and wallets now that pants will at least cost €1,000 if made in EU and we don't even complain any more. Not to mention I think Acronym is actually decently priced compared to Visvim, Off-White, Prada, or other heritage luxury brands. 

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5 hours ago, Orientalq said:

I'm going to get so much hate for this here, but this is enfin leve manifest. Especially with enfin going as far as replacing ACR for some retailers.

But I haven't purchased enfin because I don't support copycats (or reps) either... I buy ACG because I want to support E going mainstream.

I want to see a middleground where ACR reverts the price gouging over the years but stays at a high price (hence why I said J1A at 1500-1600 USD not 1200 or lower which is also profitable). I just don't buy the low stock theory of hype and luxury. 

Bruh if u put all that “knowledge” to good use and get a job as an, idk, economist, u might be able to afford acrnm

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12 hours ago, kobebean said:

multi 68 looks better on the sling than on body :ph34r:

 

On 10/30/2020 at 6:37 PM, mikon_nikon said:

J68-PL-MULTI arrived. unsure if the novelty of the colour blocking will wear off but I can immediately see myself getting a lot of wear out of this jacket. as discussed above, the Alpha Green is much more of a grey-green than the (true?) colour of the P10s. I was kind of expecting that from the photos though.  

@hentaiyarou69, does your collar zip on the J68 Multi appear olive as well? I'm assuming jacket shown on mothersite pics were a prototype?

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1 hour ago, iamundying said:

 

@hentaiyarou69, does your collar zip on the J68 Multi appear olive as well? I'm assuming jacket shown on mothersite pics were a prototype?

Can confirm it's olive. Looks much better than black imho

 

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3 hours ago, moneytalks said:

Bruh if u put all that “knowledge” to good use and get a job as an, idk, economist, u might be able to afford acrnm

As I said in my conversation with @jasonlao I have enough for whatever the right price is. I'm not broke, I'm just more price sensitive. It's like that for any hobby. Someone people think spending 2k on a jacket is acceptable, some people don't. I happen to think J1A at 2k is pushing it when it has sold for less before. 

 

8 hours ago, mikon_nikon said:

What’s your end goal? If you’ve such a strong critique of how they operate, then just write them an email. Or send the man himself a DM. 

As you lurk here you’ll know you’re not the first to have a point of view on the ACRONYM business model, yet you’ve just haphazardly presented the same lazy critique with an assured confidence that yours is the superior take on things.

Read the room a bit more next time. 

I have told E and he always replies with "you're not in the industry" which means nothing to me. It's clear he has a been on the hype craze especially with his love affair with hypebeast. Hence why I talked to people who are in the industry close to ACR who agree that price hikes are more marketing than logistics.  

I'm not the first but I won't be the last either. So what, because someone has complained about the business model months, or even years, back means that you can't talk about the same topic again? "Stop giving your lazy critique of capitalism, Marx did it before! Read the room!" Also with the news of an infamously skilled replica manufacturer taking on ACR you don't think it's fair to put that into context of pricing? 

In response to "lazy critique" I really don't see how my rhetoric or its contents are lazy or half-assed. Please elaborate. I also haven't projected any "sense of superiority" over any of the members on this forum. I haven't claimed to have had the "superior take" in any of this. In fact I have made it clear that my viewpoint is more rare especially in an enthusiast space. Dissent is fair game. I'll take as many neg reps as it takes to keep the ongoing topic of price, especially if there is a contextual reason to do so.

I seriously don't get the "shut up" attitude some have here. If someone has a viewpoint I disagree with, I would start a discussion, not shut him up.

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4 hours ago, iamundying said:

Looking back now.. E made the price hike at the best possible timing in SS18. If customers had an issue with it, we wouldn't have seen the P10's, P24's, S8-DS (think it cost €600 for a tank top), etc sell out so quickly. E was savvy, or cunning if you prefer, in setting the prices closer to resell prices and tested the market and came away a winner.

It's hard to make a judgment as to the success of something based on selling out. You can only tell if something is failing (J1L, sunglasses, for example). This is because ACR and other retailers do not show exact stock. It's very possible the P10s, P24s were made at low stock, low enough to sell out to enthusiasts who aren't price sensitive but not enough to meet the real demand.

We need more information to make a judgment as to whether price hikes were "a winner" or not. Especially with E's display on Twitter regarding price hikes, its probable that he is saving face/not trying to look greedy with his contradictory claims of " euro wages" when he has moved some production to China.

Stock transparency would be very well appreciated if E would be willing to lose some face in favor of feedback. That said ACR's formula has been a well-kept secret (for better or worse) so it's a tough prospect. 

Edited by Orientalq

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1 hour ago, Orientalq said:

I seriously don't get the "shut up" attitude some have here. If someone has a viewpoint I disagree with, I would start a discussion, not shut him up.

If you want to start a discussion, start your own thread, it's a discussion that has gone on for a long time regarding luxury brands in general, not just ACR, feel free to continue the discussion on your own thread.  This thread is over 10 years old and has been sustained by people who passionately support the brand, not question and complain about it.

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1 minute ago, markdjr said:

If you want to start a discussion, start your own thread

Last I read I was the only one talking specifically about ACR pricing model AND giving possible solutions. If you think this thread is all roses go to the first page of the thread and you'll find complaints about exclusivity and pricing. This is a systemic problem and it won't go away because you're tired of hearing about it. Sorry you don't get your monopoly on this thread.

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11 hours ago, hoju said:

People, people, please. 

Who’s everyone voting for?

 

B0B04D59-6B03-444E-BB40-6761E49A15ED.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Orientalq said:

As I said in my conversation with @jasonlao I have enough for whatever the right price is. I'm not broke, I'm just more price sensitive. It's like that for any hobby. Someone people think spending 2k on a jacket is acceptable, some people don't. I happen to think J1A at 2k is pushing it when it has sold for less before. 

 

I have told E and he always replies with "you're not in the industry" which means nothing to me. It's clear he has a been on the hype craze especially with his love affair with hypebeast. Hence why I talked to people who are in the industry close to ACR who agree that price hikes are more marketing than logistics.  

I'm not the first but I won't be the last either. So what, because someone has complained about the business model months, or even years, back means that you can't talk about the same topic again? "Stop giving your lazy critique of capitalism, Marx did it before! Read the room!" Also with the news of an infamously skilled replica manufacturer taking on ACR you don't think it's fair to put that into context of pricing? 

In response to "lazy critique" I really don't see how my rhetoric or its contents are lazy or half-assed. Please elaborate. I also haven't projected any "sense of superiority" over any of the members on this forum. I haven't claimed to have had the "superior take" in any of this. In fact I have made it clear that my viewpoint is more rare especially in an enthusiast space. Dissent is fair game. I'll take as many neg reps as it takes to keep the ongoing topic of price, especially if there is a contextual reason to do so.

I seriously don't get the "shut up" attitude some have here. If someone has a viewpoint I disagree with, I would start a discussion, not shut him up.

So your end game is to keep the topic of price on-going? 
 

You came in hot, you gotta expect some heat back? I’m not concerned with you “shutting up”, I’d just personally prefer to read or discuss stuff that’s pushing the conversation forward and exploring pricing / purchase behaviour / economics / emotional investment with a fresh perspective. Repeating stuff that’s been said before - which I feel like you’re doing - is a bit boring to read (IMO), and misses the context of the ongoing conversation about pricing in the thread. Pricing chat will always be relevant, but repetition of the same stuff (whatever it’s focused on), with a “I’ve cracked another man’s business strategy for him” attitude is just a bit... meh. 

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40 minutes ago, Orientalq said:

Last I read I was the only one talking specifically about ACR pricing model AND giving possible solutions. If you think this thread is all roses go to the first page of the thread and you'll find complaints about exclusivity and pricing. This is a systemic problem and it won't go away because you're tired of hearing about it. Sorry you don't get your monopoly on this thread.

And yet somehow this so called problem has led to 25 years of successful r/d, product releases, and collaboration with industry heavyweights smh

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1 hour ago, markdjr said:

If you want to start a discussion, start your own thread, it's a discussion that has gone on for a long time regarding luxury brands in general, not just ACR, feel free to continue the discussion on your own thread.  This thread is over 10 years old and has been sustained by people who passionately support the brand, not question and complain about it.

As the person who started this thread, I’m fine with dissenting opinions. Blind “passionate support” just shows a lack of capacity for critical thought. The ideas @Orientalq is talking about are certainly not new or unique to ACR, but they are certainly relevant and belong here. 

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34 minutes ago, mikon_nikon said:

You came in hot, you gotta expect some heat back? 

I came in with heat in the form of discussion. In return you're telling me my points are recycled when all of the points you mentioned: economics, consumer behavior, pricing exploration, supply exploration have all been points I have discussed and used to back arguments. I implore you to search for anybody suggesting a stock increase AND price decrease in this topic. You won't. It's new and relevant. Whether scaling is really possible or not is something worth discussing rather than your put down post. 

Many of the old points I brought forward were because others like Brainerd wanted context so I did some searching in the past. 

Old points being old do not make it any less relevant. Yes, you might have price-complaint fatigue, but don't you think other people might have price-inflation fatigue too? It's not all about you. There are newcomers here who haven't followed the brand that closely that are culture shocked by the pricing. If you get tired of reading, stop and move to the next post. I don't know how else to put it. 

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48 minutes ago, brainerd666 said:

And yet somehow this so called problem has led to 25 years of successful r/d, product releases, and collaboration with industry heavyweights smh

Success does not mean optimization is not worth pursuing. Toyota is always searching for ways to make their process more efficient. They do this by encouraging transparency and honesty within the company. I'm not saying Acronym isn't improving but there is a (unpopular) sentiment here that prices have gone up while the products have stayed the same, more or less. I believe its precisely because of Errolson's post-hype hubris that pricing will sour Acronym's future.

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I felt it's not E's problem making clothing with low stock and high price. This is just most fashion brand do. That do making people think those brand and jacket more cool. Imagine E start his brand with a j1a with enough stock all the time and 400 usd price tag. He kinda have to have to make those jacket unreachable for most people in order to keep it as one of the top brand. 

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52 minutes ago, Hergert said:

I felt it's not E's problem making clothing with low stock and high price. This is just most fashion brand do. That do making people think those brand and jacket more cool. Imagine E start his brand with a j1a with enough stock all the time and 400 usd price tag. He kinda have to have to make those jacket unreachable for most people in order to keep it as one of the top brand. 

But LV, Rolex spends millions on advertising. Is there any transparency of where ACR R&D is going?

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18 minutes ago, Orientalq said:

But LV, Rolex spends millions on advertising. Is there any transparency of where ACR R&D is going?

All into the ARG, so many different people collabing here. Someone has to pay /s

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