Roy. (expurgated edition)

[Paul T]

Flathead denim is great; I was more commenting on your suggestion that ROY use faster-fading Japanese denim. OF course all these things are personal, but I would suggest you wear-in some Cone, over a year or so, before you dismiss it.

THere are indeed some Japanese denims better in their own way than some Cone, and there's a huge amount of choice on offer, which is why I don't understand why one would want to generalise in terms of Japanese vs Cone. But compare Cone's interpretaiton of a 1915 fabric with one from Kurabo or Kaihara, you might agree with the wearers who believe it's a better, more complex fabric.

[dawei69]

oh did I say faster-fading japanese denim???

i thought i just said japanese denim.... :s

[dawei69]

the 1915 is an unfair comparison paul and you know that! it was a huge limited collaboration between Levis and Cone and it also costs more than other repros! (with all those levis archives and extensive development). Cone's regular stuff is definitely not the same as their 1915! It's like comparing Warehouse's extensively researched limited edition 1001 1955s with the regular 1955 from LVC..... it's just not comparable.... And when did Cone ever look at levi's archives to develop a specific denim until recent years? -perfect example of American denim copying the How the japanese copy the their own stuff.

[rnrswitch]

Yes, he has some bad-ass machines indeed. But can anyone tell me exactly why vintage machines are held at a higher standard than modern industrial machines??

This was a good question that got overlooked, so i posed it to the man himself and basically what I got was that early to mid 20th century machines were just more thoughtfully crafted and the metal used was of superior quality because there was better ore being pulled from the earth. Those machines have been around for a reason. They don't go obsolete. People in the 50s were using turn of the century machines not because it was hip and cool, but because they were still there and useable. There was not need to buy a new machine. It's like buying vintage clothes. Hopefully they're not bought for steez, but mainly because the clothes are still there and useable. Why buy new when you can recycle.

ROY said that new industrial machines are nice and a good quality machine is ridiculously expensive and for the most part are designed to become obsolete. He gave 90s sewing machines with floppy drives as an example. Imagine blowing thousands of dollars on a machine and having it become obsolete after a 10 years... wack.

In general ROY enjoys working on the machines and sees a lot of the manufacturing of these machines as ingenious and enlightening, kinda the way we look at the construction of old jeans. You are simply amazed at what people came up with to get the job done.

[Vinneus]

Roy, is proud to be USA operation. to even be having this conversation is a mute piont. if you want that Jap denim SE or BiG has a bunch. with even better fits! Roy wants to expand in the way of a store front and a cut and sew line....

and he is very dedicated to the vintage aesthetic hence his machines, product and whole process i dont think he's worring or even cares about modern "20 indigo dip process or oxidation catalysing process" in the fucking least when he has American heritage company like Cone.... and they also have plently levels of upper class denim.

Like i said i see him introducing maybe one more roomier fit, and maybe some limited denim options from Cone, but other than that... a store front and cut and sew line is his main focus! like it should be.... I have read every single page of this thread and the last few pages make absolutely no sense if you have read the first few.

[Vinneus]

...Also Kiya purchased Roys from Mr Slaper the same way and for the same price we all did. nothing about the denim/jeans has changed. Hes choosing to sell at a higher price, its his store. any other pricing convo should be done in the Self Edge thread.

[Paul T]

the 1915 is an unfair comparison paul and you know that! it was a huge limited collaboration between Levis and Cone and it also costs more than other repros! (with all those levis archives and extensive development). Cone's regular stuff is definitely not the same as their 1915! It's like comparing Warehouse's extensively researched limited edition 1001 1955s with the regular 1955 from LVC..... it's just not comparable.... And when did Cone ever look at levi's archives to develop a specific denim until recent years? -perfect example of American denim copying what's the How the japanese copy the their own stuff.

I wasn't going to respond, but I see you've edited your post. The 1915 is the same price as other LVC. Cone have been going back to their archives, doing DNA analysis of cotton, for two decades. I don't know where your evidence comes from, but I've seen exactly similar statements from Yamane, that he sent to me, which he retracted within a week.

Anyway, this is boring. I think there's a Japanese vs American vs Italian denim thread elsewhere, where we can make sweeping generalisations,

[rnrswitch]

...Also Kiya purchased Roys from Mr Slaper the same way and for the same price we all did. nothing about the denim/jeans has changed. Hes choosing to sell at a higher price, its his store. any other pricing convo should be done in the Self Edge thread.

That's a good idea.

[cash]

I know that this conversation is over, but I can't keep from adding my two cents. The anti-Cone contingency is a bit baffling to me. There are a bunch of denimheads that love denim, I mean bleed indigo, but hate Cone. What I can tell, their denim aesthetic is completely based on the last five years of Internet-denim hunting -- overlooking the 100 years of Cone-based denim dominance and discounting the company's huge contribution.

Sure, there are a lot of things happening with Japanese brands that have created some unique and beautiful garments. In many cases, however, it's comparing apples to oranges. Sadly, most of the "haters" would like both the apples and oranges if they'd pause long enough to realize that SUFU rep isn't the measure of a great collection.

(If you like Flat Head fabric, buy those not ROY.)

[Medine]

I cant wait for these next few months, maybe Roy can give us something new to talk about other than price and Cone's inferiority to Japanese mills..

[kiya]

Speaking of machines...

If you don't believe that this Roy x Self Edge connection started far before anybody had heard of his jeans... I sold Roy some of his first machines FOUR YEARS ago from my personal collection even before he was producing jeans. One i remember for certain is a Union Special machine that was designed only to chainstitch the waist band on jeans.

[roy6]

...Also Kiya purchased Roys from Mr Slaper the same way and for the same price we all did. nothing about the denim/jeans has changed. Hes choosing to sell at a higher price, its his store. any other pricing convo should be done in the Self Edge thread.

A nugget of pure gold. This isn't the Selfedge thread. They have their own thread were their pricing system and personalities can be discussed. Now I owe Vinneus two reps. Stop being so cool, Vin.

This was a good question that got overlooked, so i posed it to the man himself and basically what I got was that early to mid 20th century machines were just more thoughtfully crafted and the metal used was of superior quality because there was better ore being pulled from the earth. Those machines have been around for a reason. They don't go obsolete. People in the 50s were using turn of the century machines not because it was hip and cool, but because they were still there and useable. There was not need to buy a new machine. It's like buying vintage clothes. Hopefully they're not bought for steez, but mainly because the clothes are still there and useable. Why buy new when you can recycle.

ROY said that new industrial machines are nice and a good quality machine is ridiculously expensive and for the most part are designed to become obsolete. He gave 90s sewing machines with floppy drives as an example. Imagine blowing thousands of dollars on a machine and having it become obsolete after a 10 years... wack.

In general ROY enjoys working on the machines and sees a lot of the manufacturing of these machines as ingenious and enlightening, kinda the way we look at the construction of old jeans. You are simply amazed at what people came up with to get the job done.

Also, the old machines are really cute.

And, not the oldest, but the most interesting machine:

[Guest redchris]

Speaking of machines...

If you don't believe that this Roy x Self Edge connection started far before anybody had heard of his jeans... I sold Roy some of his first machines FOUR YEARS ago from my personal collection even before he was producing jeans. One i remember for certain is a Union Special machine that was designed only to chainstitch the waist band on jeans.

Kiya, no hate, but how come the $125 increase ?

[Paul T]

Kiya, no hate, but how come the $125 increase ?

on the Self Edge thread, please, as this is a retailer question.

[Guest redchris]

...Also Kiya purchased Roys from Mr Slaper the same way and for the same price we all did. nothing about the denim/jeans has changed. Hes choosing to sell at a higher price, its his store. any other pricing convo should be done in the Self Edge thread.

this would be a fair point if we were still at liberty to alternatively buy from ROY direct.

[Happy Hooligan]

Has anyone in SF actually stopped by Roy's to buy some jeans direct? I know he doesn't answer emails anymore....

[SwedeAlex]

Has anyone in SF actually stopped by Roy's to buy some jeans direct? I know he doesn't answer emails anymore....

Strange, since he´s answered all my emails that I sent him the last couple of days...

[kiya]

Kiya, no hate, but how come the $125 increase ?

Because Roy couldn't live off making $75 per jean.

[mikecch]

I know he doesn't answer emails anymore....

Very SAD face!

Now I won't be able to show him my silly blog posts anymore~~~

Edit: NVM, seems like Roy is only snubbing Happy Hooligan

[Happy Hooligan]

Strange, since he´s answered all my emails that I sent him the last couple of days...

well that's good to know... I thought it was just me... wait, I guess it is just me...

[Guest redchris]

Because Roy couldn't live off making $75 per jean.

OK thanks , the impression is that Selfedge have just added $125 to what ROY was asking, if you are saying that isn't the case 'nuff said.

[Guest redchris]

Tell you what , I'll buy a pair of ROY's from Self Edge tomorrow as long as y'all don't give this tea party lot a beach-head.

I'm not tired of living yet.

[robbie]

Has anyone in SF actually stopped by Roy's to buy some jeans direct? I know he doesn't answer emails anymore....

He's been more than generous in responding to my stupid emails about all sorts of things and I bought my pair over 4 months ago.

if you have any questions, email him. He's busy making jeans, so he probably won't respond right away... but eventually he'll respond. His email address is still up @ roydenim.com.

[Happy Hooligan]

He's been more than generous in responding to my stupid emails about all sorts of things and I bought my pair over 4 months ago.

if you have any questions, email him. He's busy making jeans, so he probably won't respond right away... but eventually he'll respond. His email address is still up @ roydenim.com.

I figured he was busy. I emailed him 11 days ago. Maybe repeat buyers have more sway...

[Medine]

^He is known to hold grudges, I hope you didn't do anything to offend him

[scout233]

Is interesting to note that selfedge has already sold out of a couple sizes. So it looks like Roy's are getting some sales! I hope it doesn't take too long to restock. Any word on getting more "34's" in kiya?

[kiya]

Is interesting to note that selfedge has already sold out of a couple sizes. So it looks like Roy's are getting some sales! I hope it doesn't take too long to restock. Any word on getting more "34's" in kiya?

You can place a phone order at SELA or SENY for a pair or wait till December or so for a restock.

[Vinneus]

Kiss my Roys

[robbie]

You can place a phone order at SELA or SENY for a pair or wait till December or so for a restock.

so, can we assume re-stocks will be a regular thing? Monthly,every other month? Or is this going to be an as needed, or as ROY makes them sort of thing?

I ask because I have plans to purchase a pair of the slims around tax return time.

[kiya]

so, can we assume re-stocks will be a regular thing? Monthly,every other month? Or is this going to be an as needed, or as ROY makes them sort of thing?

I ask because I have plans to purchase a pair of the slims around tax return time.

With Roy's jeans I honestly have no idea, they will come when they come.