Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[bartlebyyphonics]

On 4/25/2025 at 7:07 PM, Double 0 Soul said:

It's more similar than you give it credit for.. .. from memory, the guy who established 4Chan (moot) used to post on Something Awful.. there was some internet beef over furry culture spreading over numerous threads, he was banned, he set up 4Chan where furries could chat without oppression.. (akin to Denimbro ) other threads popped up loosly based around anime.. and eventually a stickies page.

 

.. all quite harmless.. but because folks posted anon, and nothing was archived folks could say what the hell they wanted so the early days it had a strong libertarian lean.. but with this backdrop it really was the wild west.. a breading groud for hackers, meme culture.. the birth of the modern interwebz.

Eventually the forum was split into blue screen SFW or pink screen NSFW which i'm not going to post (sufu also had similar NSFW threads in this era) so as not to deter advertising revenue.

.. the /pol thread was only set up to keep politics out of the other threads but it became a breeding ground for the worst of human nature.. it singlehandedly birthed the alt-right.. moot quit after GamerGate, a million terrible, terrible things happened, on the flip a million good things happened which we hear less about, it's like trying to sum up human nature in a paragraph.. i still think the bad far outweighs the good but that doesn't mean the good didn't happen.. but for a casual observer like me.. absolutely fascinating!

A bunch of Soyjacks who were banned from 4Chan hacked the forum, exposed the sourcecode and the mods personal deets and logs.. incredible drama!..  i'm not sad that 4Chan is gone.. i'm just sad at what the internet has become and these links to the old web are gradually being erased.

 

good reporting: can confirm /pol/ changed the board a lot from my time there in 2012 or so… the place is an example that free speech absolutism allows all kinds of shit ppl license to say all kind of shit: but dont know anywhere else with an equivalent my little pony board (see /mlp/) dont worry its back online now… this is a good essay on the use of language there at a certain historical moment: interesting for understanding the hope of truly anonymous speech, but the reality of what that then attracts…

[Double 0 Soul]

Jeez! That was a hard read for Sunday evening!

In the words of Vyvyan from The Young Ones "give us some easy ones bartles, you big bottom-boil"

[LoneWolfWelding]

I wanted to share a recent denim blunder but first I'd like to say that I'm a denim noob. For probably 10 years I would wear cheap denim for months at a time without washing but I never knew about fades or denim quality. I was just a broke skateboarder, and I thought never washing my jeans would keep them looking new so people wouldn't realize I was poor. After discovering selvedge denim and more importantly this community, I've learned so much about the finer details. When I first dipped my toes into the world of selvedge denim, I decided to buy a pair from Iron & Resin, mostly because of the pocket layout in the front. Somewhere along the way in my "research" process I saw a video of guys wearing their denim in the ocean and talking about the fades this would produce so of course I had to try it. Since my last trip to the ocean, I've added a few more pairs to my collection and my Iron & Resin salty denim haven't gotten much wear time. Today I put them on and one of the buttons on the fly came apart due to corrosion from the salt water -__- 

[bartlebyyphonics]

2 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

Jeez! That was a hard read for Sunday evening!

In the words of Vyvyan from The Young Ones "give us some easy ones bartles, you big bottom-boil"

lol: it def gets to the grit of it… 

a less visceral read: haven’t read the whole thing: but they’ve done good writing on shift from hacker to troll …another one: more dismissive but gives a good tumblr vs chan angle

[Double 0 Soul]

Re^ 'camwhoreing' .. i once caught a wonderful exchange between two fishermen.. before we moved house, i was sat fishing at the side of the local pond, these two other blokes turned up, one around 30ish one around 50ish.. one had a disposable BBQ under his arm, the other had a 24 pack of Stella, they sat at the opposite side of the pond to me, around 10m apart.. but sound carries amazingly well over water..

The older one said..

"Such and such is doing pretty well for himself nowadays"

Younger one..

"it's his missus who earns all the money y'know"

"What does she do for a living" ?

"She's one o'them camgirls"

"A what?"

..explanation followed..

"..and you earn money from this"?

"Yep, that's how they bought that caravan at Mablethorpe"

"How much was that"?

"£10,000"

"£10,000!!! .. i'll have to get our old lass doing it"

 

Edited April 28 by Double 0 Soul

[Double 0 Soul]

Shoulder rust.. ?

 

You heard it here first people..

[Broark]

Honey, is everything okay? You've barely touched your joafers.

[ATWM]

^ This is just an opinion, but those are very bad.  

[Broark]

Just now, ATWM said:

^ This is just an opinion, but those are very bad.  

Absolutely awful.

[Double 0 Soul]

Meh, I’ve seen worse in the shoes thread..

[youngofthesoonest]

I dont know....it could look REALLY cool with navy socks, a pair of similarly colored jeans and a chambray shirt. 

[indigoeagle]

I wouldn't get them, but they look alright.
I've got some flip flops/sandals where the top is orslow denim. A bit different, but in that direction.

I've started to imagine, how a pair of RW Mocs with say Samurai denim would like.

After all the classic sneakers/boats/army shoes are made of canvas/twill and denim, and that looks pretty good.

The play with different fabrics and standard designs can be quite interesting.
I recently saw a pic of a Japanese guy, who I think lives in Amsterdam and works as consultant on denim (somelier) wearing a type 1 jacket, but made of sage or olive drag coloured nylon twill with the orange lining.

[indigoeagle]

Here are the sandals

[indigoeagle]

Might be a type 2

https://www.instagram.com/p/DIlhLM9MWav/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

(don't know how to embed the insta post/pic)

Edited April 28 by indigoeagle

[youngofthesoonest]

I agree that the Joafers are not the worst thing ever but it does cross the "is this bad?" line while I think with sandals, it works.  That nylon type I is from the Levis x Porter collab they did a few years ago. https://hypebeast.com/2020/10/levis-porter-type-ii-jacket-collaboration-release-information

[Broark]

1 hour ago, youngofthesoonest said:

That nylon type I is from the Levis x Porter collab they did a few years ago. https://hypebeast.com/2020/10/levis-porter-type-ii-jacket-collaboration-release-information

Oh god, those are an abomination. Much worse than the Joafers.

[ATWM]

I like some (what some probably consider) weird shit. All about experimentation. Probably even regularly wear a few items that fall in “no way” category for others. 

But there are certain aesthetic collisions that I just cannot get past. One of those is the idea of jeans with country club wear, for lack of a better term. It never works for me, personally, but I very rarely see it work elsewhere. Part of this is the fact that jeans are the sort of functional antithesis of what those clothes have typically signaled. Country clubs generally don’t even allow denim - it’s because of an aversion to a working class look, and it carries on today.

On that note, the hardest denim look to pull off well is the Ivy look. Of course, some do it, but it’s damn rare (in my dumb opinion).

Joafers are the worst possible version of this. Loafers with jeans are bad enough. Combining the two into one object is like ketchup and peanut butter. I’m sure someone somewhere loves it but there’s going to be a common enough response to the idea of it. 

It’s another take on what I think is one of the most unfortunate trends in menswear over the past decade - that is trying to put dress shoe uppers on casual shoe soles. I’m sorry, but you can’t have it both ways. Well, you can’t have it both ways and look good, at least. I get that this doesn’t much matter for their market. That’s fine. 

There may be bad stuff in the shoe thread (it’s not one I much follow, so I don’t know) but I really can’t imagine much worse that isn’t actually an attempt at humor. Humor is cool though. 

Am I reading way too much into this? Sure! 

Edited April 29 by ATWM

[julian-wolf]

@Double 0 Soul Thanks for the early message board musings

My intro to internet communities was through MMORPGs, mostly Runescape. I probably averaged 2+ hours a day on that game for most of middle school in the mid-2000s. It was the wild west, if not in terms of 4chan-style free speech maximalism then certainly in terms of general social and economic chaos. I think spending 2–3 years watching thousands of pre-teens and teenagers socially engineer each other out of their hard-earned pixels probably saved my sub-generation from tens of thousands of real-world bucks in avoided scams. The social hierarchies of the clans put old-school forum rep wars to shame.

My real forum awakening, though, was on What.CD from around 2010 through its closure in 2016. It was a private community centered around a bit torrent tracker for music. Maybe some other time I'll talk about the music end of things, because there wasn't anywhere else that came close in terms of archival music and metadata collection (including even, e.g., the Library of Congress), and in the post-streaming internet I don't expect anywhere else to take its place—as far as I can tell, none of the natural successors that have popped up in the last decade have come anywhere close. Music aside, though, the forums were top top notch, and were not at all music-specific besides a few particular subforums.

I know of a couple other folks here on SuFu who were variously active; wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a few more. At its peak, there were around 150k users, with maybe 5% present on the forums, and maybe 1k really active regulars. The approach was 4chan's polar opposite, with pretty strict rules and pretty heavy-handed moderation. There were active threads on just about anything you can imagine—clothes, headphones, relationships, dark web drug acquisitions, weird supermarket finds—and a lot of very kind folks participating, some of whom I kept in touch with for years after it closed down.

The site was invite-only, but had an interview system (held over IRC—another technology, along with classic forums like this, that I dearly miss) which let folks join by answering an hour's worth of questions about audio encoding, metadata best practices, etc., and I spent a few years on the Interview Team, which was a very cool sub-community in itself. I do think the closed-doors aspect made for a better community, overall. It's not so necessary for smaller, focused forums like we have here, but a large general forum can benefit a lot from only letting folks participate who have shown that they're willing to put in some time to learn the basic rules, first. My take, anyway.

After that I spent another year or so on the Build Team nominally working on new website features. The Gazelle project was originally built for What.CD, and their private GitLab fork had a lot of really cool cutting edge (within the particular context) stuff going on. I was still green with computers at the time and never successfully contributed all that much, but the other developers there taught me a lot of early lessons about project planning and management, some of which have stuck with me.

It was a tight ship top to bottom. The What.CD forums and IRC server were a big part of my whole coming of age story, honestly—and I still really, really miss them.

[redragon]

I think it really depends on the model of the shoe used, quite like the tasteful use of denim for these pair. 

[Double 0 Soul]

That was a great read @julian-wolf..

I haven't even got changed yet, i just got sucked into it.. sat here sweating in cycling gear with a coffee.

 

[Broark]

@julian-wolf I had no idea you were on What, I was super active on Waffles (and was a mod at one point) and tried being more active on What before the end.
Had a very similar experience as yours on Waffles, met a lot of cool people that I still keep in touch with to this day.
Formative years online!

[ATWM]

@redragon I’ll agree. Still don’t love them but the rough edges and chukka cut make quite a difference to me here. 

[indigoeagle]

11 hours ago, ATWM said:

I like some (what some probably consider) weird shit. All about experimentation. Probably even regularly wear a few items that fall in “no way” category for others. 

But there are certain aesthetic collisions that I just cannot get past. One of those is the idea of jeans with country club wear, for lack of a better term. It never works for me, personally, but I very rarely see it work elsewhere. Part of this is the fact that jeans are the sort of functional antithesis of what those clothes have typically signaled. Country clubs generally don’t even allow denim - it’s because of an aversion to a working class look, and it carries on today.

On that note, the hardest denim look to pull off well is the Ivy look. Of course, some do it, but it’s damn rare (in my dumb opinion).

Joafers are the worst possible version of this. Loafers with jeans are bad enough. Combining the two into one object is like ketchup and peanut butter. I’m sure someone somewhere loves it but there’s going to be a common enough response to the idea of it. 

It’s another take on what I think is one of the most unfortunate trends in menswear over the past decade - that is trying to put dress shoe uppers on casual shoe soles. I’m sorry, but you can’t have it both ways. Well, you can’t have it both ways and look good, at least. I get that this doesn’t much matter for their market. That’s fine. 

 

I guess in our little bubble of vintage clothing and reproduction of those mostly we all prefer classical, lindy (time tested) clothes and combinations thereof.

But interesting to see sometimes, what people come up with.
The type 1 and 2 jackets in horse hide by High Large Leathers et al manage that mix quite well. I don't think there were vintage ones, but that mix works quite well.

The Japanese curator Poggy apparently got famous because he mixed styles like pin stripe jacket with a basket ball shirt or striped shirt and tie with a hoody, etc..

 

He seems to be very successful with that. He's done lots of collabs.
https://hypebeast.com/2025/1/poggy-x-porsche-capsule-collection-release-info

https://poggytheman.hamiltonwatch.com/

https://rowingblazers.com/blogs/dispatches/poggy-x-rowing-blazers-the-japanese-menswear-icon-wears-rb-for-paris-fashion-week?srsltid=AfmBOorxcpstDEFx3OilgCvlbHteigPnBeNzWnxGtzHuoU-3g5hxZf-5

https://icon.ink/articles/levis-made-crafted-poggy-the-man-workwear-collection/

 

[Double 0 Soul]

14 minutes ago, ATWM said:

@redragon I’ll agree. Still don’t love them but the rough edges and chukka cut make quite a difference to me here. 

You can get something similar from Age UK.. £23.99

[ATWM]

^somehow this falls squarely back in the nope category for me. Damn looks cozy tho 😎

[Double 0 Soul]

Hit me up for proxy..

[ATWM]

1 hour ago, indigoeagle said:

But interesting to see sometimes, what people come up with.

Yep, I’m all about it - all about the spirit of it, and often unexpected stuff works well. Sometimes it doesn’t, but every maker knows that’s gonna happen on the way to good ideas. 

[nick682]

12 hours ago, julian-wolf said:

@Double 0 Soul Thanks for the early message board musings

My intro to internet communities was through MMORPGs, mostly Runescape. I probably averaged 2+ hours a day on that game for most of middle school in the mid-2000s. It was the wild west, if not in terms of 4chan-style free speech maximalism then certainly in terms of general social and economic chaos. I think spending 2–3 years watching thousands of pre-teens and teenagers socially engineer each other out of their hard-earned pixels probably saved my sub-generation from tens of thousands of real-world bucks in avoided scams. The social hierarchies of the clans put old-school forum rep wars to shame.

My real forum awakening, though, was on What.CD from around 2010 through its closure in 2016. It was a private community centered around a bit torrent tracker for music. Maybe some other time I'll talk about the music end of things, because there wasn't anywhere else that came close in terms of archival music and metadata collection (including even, e.g., the Library of Congress), and in the post-streaming internet I don't expect anywhere else to take its place—as far as I can tell, none of the natural successors that have popped up in the last decade have come anywhere close. Music aside, though, the forums were top top notch, and were not at all music-specific besides a few particular subforums.

I know of a couple other folks here on SuFu who were variously active; wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a few more. At its peak, there were around 150k users, with maybe 5% present on the forums, and maybe 1k really active regulars. The approach was 4chan's polar opposite, with pretty strict rules and pretty heavy-handed moderation. There were active threads on just about anything you can imagine—clothes, headphones, relationships, dark web drug acquisitions, weird supermarket finds—and a lot of very kind folks participating, some of whom I kept in touch with for years after it closed down.

The site was invite-only, but had an interview system (held over IRC—another technology, along with classic forums like this, that I dearly miss) which let folks join by answering an hour's worth of questions about audio encoding, metadata best practices, etc., and I spent a few years on the Interview Team, which was a very cool sub-community in itself. I do think the closed-doors aspect made for a better community, overall. It's not so necessary for smaller, focused forums like we have here, but a large general forum can benefit a lot from only letting folks participate who have shown that they're willing to put in some time to learn the basic rules, first. My take, anyway.

After that I spent another year or so on the Build Team nominally working on new website features. The Gazelle project was originally built for What.CD, and their private GitLab fork had a lot of really cool cutting edge (within the particular context) stuff going on. I was still green with computers at the time and never successfully contributed all that much, but the other developers there taught me a lot of early lessons about project planning and management, some of which have stuck with me.

It was a tight ship top to bottom. The What.CD forums and IRC server were a big part of my whole coming of age story, honestly—and I still really, really miss them.

Very cool story, which brings back a lot of memories.  I wouldn't be surprised if we communicated on What at some point. I'm still a member on several private trackers, some for over 15 years.  I'm not really active in any of their communities, but I do still download stuff.

[Double 0 Soul]

A bit after my time.. it was Limewire for me, followed by Pirate Bay, both great and equally terrible. 

[chicote]

A few years ago I kicked streaming services and their algorithms that made finding music feel like riding on a set track rather than an open ended adventure, and for a while was unsure whether there were still any active music/filesharing communities left from the pre streaming days. I ended up on Soulseek and have really enjoyed finding music there. While it’s a much more solitary experience than the forums and music blogs of the past, it’s still introduced me to a ton of great stuff, and I’d really recommend it to anyone looking for something with a similar feel to the sites we’re discussing above.