Levi's Vintage Clothing

[partytaco]

is the 333 denim really that great or is it a type of denim you're unfamiliar with from the LVC range. Looks like a dungaree, similar to what you find on low grade USN uniforms and barrack bags of the 20's - 40's. I appreciate Levi's bringing some diversity to the line but I don't know about the 333 denim being the best or close to it, however, the jeans do have some nice details

[airfrogusmc]

is the 333 denim really that great or is it a type of denim you're unfamiliar with from the LVC range. Looks like a dungaree, similar to what you find on low grade USN uniforms and barrack bags of the 20's - 40's. I appreciate Levi's bringing some diversity to the line but I don't know about the 333 denim being the best or close to it, however, the jeans do have some nice details

Its really cool. Its really that good. I'll try and get some photos up that show the horizontal and vertical lines and the denim gets so soft. It has a very different hand than any other LVC denim. Its really special.

Maybe Paul could add something more technical to this.

[Doug C]

Some of the US market jeans do carry that tag. Dr Heech might kniw what year these are from, there was at least one without the NRA tag. They're legit I believe, the fabric is very distinctive. Comes out a very royal blue.

The pair I have (Taylor Togs issue "R" on button) are missing the NRA tag too and have the same care tag. Aside from the suspender buttons, everything about mine is superior quality especially the denim. I'm no expert, but I'd wager to say that they are neither fakes nor lower budget version.

I'm sure my sarcasm didn't register in my suggesting these may be fakes. Not surprised at all with your assessment. But you had to know someone was going to bring these things up, after all they are the very sort of things that usually have some of ya'll convensed of forgery.

[Doug C]

is the 333 denim really that great or is it a type of denim you're unfamiliar with from the LVC range. Looks like a dungaree, similar to what you find on low grade USN uniforms and barrack bags of the 20's - 40's. I appreciate Levi's bringing some diversity to the line but I don't know about the 333 denim being the best or close to it, however, the jeans do have some nice details

I have to agree with this too, I can't figure out from the pictures I've seen of the 333's what is so great about the denim. It looks pretty bland to me ... and I don't necessarily think that about the USN denim from the 20s-40s by any means. Of course Airfrog has access to them in a tangable way and can factor in the feel of the denim but just a guess, I'd bet these were the worst selling models in recent history.. probably for these reasons. Airfrog, no offense but it's not great denim just because you shelled out the money for them.. is it?

[airfrogusmc]

I have to agree with this too, I can't figure out from the pictures I've seen of the 333's what is so great about the denim. It looks pretty bland to me ... and I don't necessarily think that about the USN denim from the 20s-40s by any means. Of course Airfrog has access to them in a tangable way and can factor in the feel of the denim but just a guess, I'd bet these were the worst selling models in recent history.. probably for these reasons. Airfrog, no offense but it's not great denim just because you shelled out the money for them.. is it?

So you're commenting on something that you never seen or felt in person? I've owned a good deal of LVCs in the past and present and seen many different types of denim on from many different years and this denim is very different and really nice. I could care less whether you believe me or not but I can tell you that its really nice denim but WTF do I know, right?

[Doug C]

So you're commenting on something that you never seen or felt in person? I've owned a good deal of LVCs in the past and present and seen many different types of denim on from many different years and this denim is very different and really nice. I could care less whether you believe me or not but I can tell you that its really nice denim but WTF do I know, right?

Of course I'm commenting on something I've never seen or felt in person. That's what we do unless we have access to the item (I'm in the US...LVC ain't). You decided to buy them on the same grounds, right? I can understand you may have liked the design, though I honestly don't know why - to each his own I guess. But I assume your opinion of the denim was developed post-purchase. Was just trying to get more than "they have a wonderfull hand", or whatever the catch phrase is. Again no offense, but I don't give a squat about you're past history with the label so don't wave it in my face. I was not going to say this but every since I've been reading your reviews (a few years now) I've noticed that every new pair you get is better than the last, the denim is always better. So spare me the bullshit.

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

btw.: the denim of the 333s reminds me , just from seeing it, of the denim

that had been used for naval clothing, thinking of us navy dungarees, or the

famous 1960s-70s Levis Shipmates Bell Bottoms... am I right!?

[Paul T]

Its really cool. Its really that good. I'll try and get some photos up that show the horizontal and vertical lines and the denim gets so soft. It has a very different hand than any other LVC denim. Its really special.

Maybe Paul could add something more technical to this.

It is technically unique. The original had used recycled fibres in the yarn, so it's a completely different texture from virgin cotton. They had a lot of trouble replicating somthing so low-quality with so many imperfections.

I doubt the fabric is unique in vintage terms, there will be a lot of 30s and 40s cheap workwear that use similar cloth, there was a depression and a war on after all. So yes, if you find yourself a nice pair of 1930s POW pants, or and original pairs of 333 from the 1920s, I'm sure that will be just as good.

When I saw them I thought they looked amazing - very much a purist's, workwear nerd's jean, though, and I'd like to see a raw version.

[airfrogusmc]

Of course I'm commenting on something I've never seen or felt in person. That's what we do unless we have access to the item (I'm in the US...LVC ain't). You decided to buy them on the same grounds, right? I can understand you may have liked the design, though I honestly don't know why - to each his own I guess. But I assume your opinion of the denim was developed post-purchase. Was just trying to get more than "they have a wonderfull hand", or whatever the catch phrase is. Again no offense, but I don't give a squat about you're past history with the label so don't wave it in my face. I was not going to say this but every since I've been reading your reviews (a few years now) I've noticed that every new pair you get is better than the last, the denim is always better. So spare me the bullshit.

No offense taken but I'm comparing it to other denim within the label and NO OFFENSE but intelligent people will usually give weight to those that have experience over their own unless they always go trough life having to learn the hard way. And thats a long bumpy road. The best denim I've seen on LVC are on the 333s the 1915s and the 209s and 201s. Now you can believe me or you don't have to either way I could care less.

Oh and Dougie there was an original pair and some photos of those on the net a while back The originals went to a guy in Japan big $$$ and the details on the 333 LVCs were really close and the denim is really good. these 333 are several years old so no where near my latest pair so spare me your ignorance because thats in abundance.

[airfrogusmc]

It is technically unique. The original had used recycled fibres in the yarn, so it's a completely different texture from virgin cotton. They had a lot of trouble replicating somthing so low-quality with so many imperfections.

I doubt the fabric is unique in vintage terms, there will be a lot of 30s and 40s cheap workwear that use similar cloth, there was a depression and a war on after all. So yes, if you find yourself a nice pair of 1930s POW pants, or and original pairs of 333 from the 1920s, I'm sure that will be just as good.

When I saw them I thought they looked amazing - very much a purist's, workwear nerd's jean, though, and I'd like to see a raw version.

Paul I meant unique in terms of LVC. I don't think they offered a raw version did they? They did have a one rinse version.

[Paul T]

Paul I meant unique in terms of LVC. I don't think they offered a raw version did they? They did have a one rinse version.

Oh yes, absolutely unique in terms of LVC or anyone making repros - I don't know of any Japanese jeans with similar fabrics, although as we know there's some tasty stuff coming from Warehouse.

[Paul T]

btw.: the denim of the 333s reminds me , just from seeing it, of the denim

that had been used for naval clothing, thinking of us navy dungarees, or the

famous 1960s-70s Levis Shipmates Bell Bottoms... am I right!?

Most of the Naval clothing used Jelt, which is a Cone fabric, code 818. Jelt is a much finer weave, I think, than the 333, which is coarser, and I would say heavier too. But they do all have a similar rough and ready feel.

I had a kid's jacket, which Lildavid (or rather Levi) now has in a similar Cone fabric called Darktone - I would guess it's late 40s. There was one LVC repro fabric which copied it, and it was absolutely dead-on.

As Fardin here would know, Can't Bust Em were some of the earliest supliers of denim Naval Bell Bottoms, from 1905 or earlier. By the 30s, I believe Jelt was specified as the denim to use.Cone supplied Lee 'Jelt' in the 30s, it's possible Erwin Mills might have supplied it earlier.

Edit : This is the kid's jacket in Cone Deeptone (this incidentally is identical to the Wild Bill Hikkox jacket but for the rxtra fur and tags):

Erwin Mills were the big producers of denim from the 20s - they produced the first Sanforized fabric. It's a terrible shame their records seem to have been lost. If I get to the Carolinas again I will try and do some digging.

[Dr_Heech]

Noticed that the LVC S/S 2010 attached with a CONE tag

So glad Lvc are going back to using the correct colour paint for their WW2 S501's, as that purple colour used on the last seasons model (OD HBT pockets) was rank.

.

[setterman]

Setterman, could you give waist and hem measurements (pre or post soak, whichever)? Thinking about getting a pair of 38x36 for relaxed summer work jeans.

Put them through a warm wash, waist shrank down to 38" and inseam to 31". Wound up a little trimmer than expected, but I'm happy with the fit since all my MIJ denim is fairly full fitting and I wanted something smaller. Might be the trim fit or the lack of a 3" cuff, but they don't look very "50s" to me.

[fardin]

sorry for interrupting the fights here, but i wanted to know more about the 333s.

i found this link some time ago and wanted to know if its those pants paul and airfr were talking about.

http://www.joenet.co.jp/casual/levi/vintage/11333/11333-0001/11333-0001.html

[Doug C]

DH - I changed my mind and I don't give a damd about neg rep anyway, sorry. But again if you go back to my original questions about the 333's (instead of just defending the "pro's") the comments about the denim was legitamit. I really was looking for an answer - but we didn't get much. I can't help it if someone doesn't agree and gets bent out of shape about it. But if someone comes at me rude, don't expect me to just shut up and let it ride. Talk about blurb, there was no reason for cheap, erk, paul or yourself to say anything about our conversation... but you do and that keeps this shit going.. so you're partially to blame for it.

[Paul T]

sorry for interrupting the fights here, but i wanted to know more about the 333s.

i found this link some time ago and wanted to know if its those pants paul and airfr were talking about.

http://www.joenet.co.jp/casual/levi/vintage/11333/11333-0001/11333-0001.html

These are the same pants, more or less. I have more photos of the first issue on photobucket somewher,e I'll take a look.

Some details like the 2-horse patch look different, in this case not as good, i can't remember if we said the other hardware was as good. There are a couple of recent Levi's JP jeans that were definitely not as good as the US ones.. I don't know who sourced the fabric for these, or whether the Euro and Jp fabric is the same, but I am seeing someone who will know on Friday, and ask them.

Incidentally, altho it's not been said specifically, if say, Kaihara or Nisshinbo produced the deniim for the 333, I would guess they'll keep doing it. Cone are very much associated with the 501.

Edit: Here ya go, this was the not-great-but-not-totally-useless prewashed version, with a resin treatment, I would like a raw version, I like being gay:

[fardin]

thanks paul. someone here posted some 333s some months ago, couldnt find it though. i think they look great.

and yes, from the way the denim looks, it remeinds me of some of the hellers cafe stuff from warehouse

[electrum]

sorry for interrupting the fights here, but i wanted to know more about the 333s.

i found this link some time ago and wanted to know if its those pants paul and airfr were talking about.

http://www.joenet.co.jp/casual/levi/vintage/11333/11333-0001/11333-0001.html

I think the 333's they're discussing are the broken raw version. Your link shows the raw/rigid LVC Japan issue with the cheap patch that looks like the graphics are finger painted. For 300+ USD those are a complete rip off IMO.

Edit: Ooops my bad, I was slow to post -- looks like PaulT already covered all the bases. Still think the JP raw is a scam though...

[Paul T]

Fardin or someone, can u post the Japanese pix on your photobucket so we can compare? I'm behind schedule at work and my children will starve.

[partytaco]

always happy to spark a little debate and fire to this thread which otherwise is way too many sizing questions. I mean how many times can you ask "what size would i be in the 1915"

[Paul T]

don't feed the trolls, Charlie.

Does anyone think LVC should produce a version of this pair?

[electrum]

Found these in my fotobucket archive, they are patches from the 333 '11 LVC JP (same ones Fardin linked)raw and the '10 LVC Euro(?) broken raw(?) respectively:

If the quality of the '11 patch is any indication of the over all quality of the jeans, then the jeans are not worth anything let alone $300+. On the other hand, the '10 graphics are very detailed ans have an authentic antiquated vibe.

Fardin or someone, can u post the Japanese pix on your photobucket so we can compare? I'm behind schedule at work and my children will starve.

[Paul T]

I remember now, the Japanese patch is in the wrong location. We have the originals on this thjread somewhere.

Still, those Levi's Japan designers paid for their mistakes. Levi's sacked them all!

Aisumasen, gents

[fardin]

by the way paul how are your lees doing?

well i wish charlotte looked more like here mom then she does. lvc should doe some early lady levis

[Paul T]

Not sure when I'll get to my Lees fardin, I am wearing a pair of the SDA 103 natural indigo, just about the slowest fading jeans known to man. In the time these take to show minor fading, you could probably get a pair of Sammies to the stage where they look like they've done 100 years' hard labor down a gold mine.

[fardin]

funny i had the sd 103 in my hands today in viennas first real denim shop, but i decided to get some hair on hides instead. and since we are in the lvc thread the store also is going to get the lvc line next month. i recomended the guy to buy your book today, so he knows a bit about the stuff he sells.

[airfrogusmc]

Found these in my fotobucket archive, they are patches from the 333 '11 LVC JP (same ones Fardin linked)raw and the '10 LVC Euro(?) broken raw(?) respectively:

If the quality of the '11 patch is any indication of the over all quality of the jeans, then the jeans are not worth anything let alone $300+. On the other hand, the '10 graphics are very detailed ans have an authentic antiquated vibe.

Heres some shots of mine. They look much different today. They are some of my favorites. Didn't pay $300 for mine in fact I think hey were on sale at some places for $80.

So from what you say Paul the denim on these is close to the originals?

[Charlie Delta]

Out of all threads in Superdenim I expected this particular one to be the last that would need mods "policing" it because people can't behave.

May I remind you all that while this is a discussion board, that discussing should be about the topic at hand, in this case LVC jeans, so please discuss that and don't allow yourself to get dragged into childish arguments about who is right or wrong, who knows more than the other etc etc...

You're not only wasting your own time but also that of people who come here to actually learn, read or discuss about LVC.

If you really can't help yourself, please take it to the Trash, or even better PM.

You're all in this thread for the same reason, so please don't ruin it for yourself and others.

Thank you!

Oh, and this:

[airfrogusmc]

Out of all threads in Superdenim I expected this particular one to be the last that would need mods "policing" it because people can't behave.

May I remind you all that while this is a discussion board, that discussing should be about the topic at hand, in this case LVC jeans, so please discuss that and don't allow yourself to get dragged into childish arguments about who is right or wrong, who knows more than the other etc etc...

You're not only wasting your own time but also that of people who come here to actually learn, read or discuss about LVC.

If you really can't help yourself, please take it to the Trash, or even better PM.

You're all in this thread for the same reason, so please don't ruin it for yourself and others.

Thank you!

Oh, and this:

Well said!!! Thanks CD.