Urban Techwear

[ebphoto]

On 12/25/2017 at 6:17 PM, brainerd666 said:

@Inkinsurgent I’ve been drooling over LEAF gear for the last year and half. Sucks that’s it’s Police/Military access only. 

gssgear in Florida sells LEAF to civilians... they ship as well.

[noobedloser]

I bought my arcteryx leaf atom jacket on US elite gears when it was on sale. They have a generous return policy too.

[Xu Jianfeng]

On 2017/12/28 at 8:37 AM, johngalt said:

Hi, 

I only wear Veilance but am sick of GTX. I want to try some Schoeller softshell (WB-400) and don't want to wait for the Isogon MX. 

 

Does anyone have any recommendation? 

Edit: no Outlier please. Really not a fan of the brand

If your budget is enormous, then actually acr is one of the best brand offering best soft shells.

if you keen to wb-400 specifically, old models offers great design.

 

 

[SuE]

On 12/27/2017 at 7:37 PM, johngalt said:

Edit: no Outlier please. Really not a fan of the brand

huh?

 

[St. Piffy]

http://zozo.jp/search/?p_tpcsid=629691

Some cool stuff allterrain ss2018 preorder in zozo.

Edited January 3, 2018 by St. Piffy

[johngalt]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. The TAD hoodie looks nice.

4 hours ago, SuE said:

huh?

 

I've never like Outlier. From the products to just the swagger and hubris Abe carries, there is a lot to dislike. I bought a pair of SDs recently and feel like I got tricked into buying $200 Lululemon pants with less features. Don't get me wrong I know they pioneered the whole casual tech wear market but there's a lot of brands now that do a better job for a more competitive price.

[jeddyhsu]

https://www.grailed.com/drycleanonly/techwear-cyberpunk-orientalism

Yikes, so leslie just released an article skimming the very top of what techwear is, and naming a few of its influences. Comments are harsh. What do you think?

Edited January 4, 2018 by jeddyhsu

[Appleseed]

^as painfully illiterate as that Redditor post on ACR a few months ago. This one manages to list Errolson as 'the man responsible for....Arc'teryx Veilance...' L O L

 

[johngalt]

Well Errolson did do a lot of consulting for Veilance when it first launched. I wouldn't credit him all the work but he did help the brand find its cadence 

[junkie_dolphin]

1 hour ago, Appleseed said:

^as painfully illiterate as that Redditor post on ACR a few months ago. This one manages to list Errolson as 'the man responsible for....Arc'teryx Veilance...' L O L

Yikes, I missed that one on the first read-though. Jesus... I mean, I can understand how you could come to that conclusion, reading through the literature and the hype-talk. Conroy tended to keep out of the spotlight, and in general I think Veilance has been much more reluctant to present a single person as a figurehead. Even during the big press thing that happened back when they did the pop-up store, they sort of split the interviews between Taka and Lars...

31 minutes ago, johngalt said:

Well Errolson did do a lot of consulting for Veilance when it first launched. I wouldn't credit him all the work but he did help the brand find its cadence 

I've heard from people closer to the project that basically Errolson helped with some preliminary stuff, but he didn't have much (if any) input into the products themselves. They were more interested in the problem of marketing technical garments as menswear, so they consulted with him on that. Weirdly, most of the people who worked on that initial Veilance season have moved on (one of them is actually a lead designer at Aritzia now).

[branespload]

3 hours ago, jeddyhsu said:

https://www.grailed.com/drycleanonly/techwear-cyberpunk-orientalism

Yikes, so leslie just released an article skimming the very top of what techwear is, and naming a few of its influences. Comments are harsh. What do you think?

i kind of feel bad because i dont think this piece was properly edited. it could have been a solid read, albeit probably not one that would make sense to post on grailed. it just lacked structure and possibly some fact-checking.

ALSO: i at least +rep leslie for attempting to bring light to this topic of asian fetishism and possible appropriation in the context of techwear.

it could have been something like:

• this is what techwear was originally supposed to be
• i argue that it is corrupted because of asian fetishism or whatever compromising the intended utility-driven purpose of the clothes, and as a result has become oversimplified as an aesthetic with probably problematic consequences
• introduce cyberpunk stuff as large influence and give specific examples of designers and brands who reference iconic cyberpunk/dystopian whatever
• explain techno-orientalism or whatever
• demonstrate how popular brands have asian-inspired designs as a result
• contend with analysis of garments that they can be form over function, cite materials or whatever as not optimally functional/tech
• provide a landscape of the current state of mainstream techwear, common perceptions, etc
• explain how increase in demand of 'cheap' techwear/popularity of reps (dont link to them though, that hurts grailed, the platform thats publishing the piece. i think this is the editors mistake) can possibly mean consumers are after the aesthetic and willing to compromise on performance if they can afford to 'look tech'
• acknowledge the existence of other utility-driven techwear substyles and how the subculture or whatever may stagnate or become corrupted if they are neglected/underdeveloped in favor of the current techninja aesthetic as a result of the aforementioned cyberpunk/techno-orientalism and its detrimental effects
• drive home the point and connect these dots, maybe offer a topic of further discussion -- what things can be done to challenge this, what would happen to techwear or the brands over time, anything

anyway i think there was nuggets of good ideas here and there just not fully developed.

Edited January 4, 2018 by branespload

[brainerd666]

This article felt more like an assignation of guilt as opposed to a discussion on an ‘emergent trend’. Very disjointed, and reaches too far without a real focus. I kept scrolling down not realizing that said article had ended...? 

 

 Meh. 

[junkie_dolphin]

The desire to absolve Acronym of accusations of orientalism ultimately prevents the article from seeing clearly what's going on here. There was never some sort of "pure" techwear to "corrupt" with asian fetishism or what-have-you. "Techwear" as a fashion trend begins and ends with the aesthetic that Acronym began pushing a few years back. Yes, many of these things existed before then—Osti, Vexed Generation, lots of outdoor clothing companies like Arc'teryx, materially experimental fashion designers, etc.—but it's being discussed on Grailed right now because of the Acronym/techninja aesthetic. r/techwearclothing barely goes near stuff that doesn't fit into that slouchy aesthetic—even Veilance is often ignored if it doesn't fit into that look. Acronym is pretty clear about this: they are just as concerned with aesthetics as with function. There is no "pure aesthetic of functionality."

From where did Acronym get its aesthetic? Some asian sources, sure—BLAME!, Akira, etc.—but from where did those sources get their aesthetics? From the same people that influenced "western cyberpunk": Metal Hurlant, largely, and its aesthetic legacy (which includes Star Wars, by the way, which heavily influenced Otomo)—and we all know how much the French loved their orientalism. This is a problem you run into when looking at the history of orientalism in Asia (I'm thinking specifically of Japan): for example, Japan becomes westernized rapidly in the latter half of the 19th century, then "rediscovers" its buried cultural legacy in the earlier part of the 20th century—but it is now so westernized that its academics cannot help but see Japan's history through a western lens. And so you get "oriental orientalism"—Japanese scholars fetishizing their own past as something alien and wondrous.

Does Errolson's partial-Chinese heritage somehow protect him from accusations of cultural appropriation or orientalism? The guy grew up in Canada and lives in Berlin, and in any case it's not as though all east asians are the same.

To be clear, I think the whole line of critique is flawed—but I also think that, if you're going to go there, it's not acceptable to give your favourite designers a pass based on their (vaguely-defined) race.

Edited January 4, 2018 by junkie_dolphin

[brainerd666]

I agree with you @junkie_dolphin. I’m at split odds honestly with this whole cultural appropriation concept. I feel it’s widely advertised by individuals who aren’t being subject to said appropriation and also aren’t subject to whatever ills that are entailed in said so called wrongdoing. There is a line that I haven’t seen yet, but I feel that appropriating is often mistaken for integration, celebration and acceptance of certain cultural features. There’s so many layers to the tech-ninj concept, and the origins their in. In fact the article even goes so far (IMO) in the first couple paragraphs to imply that the term Tech Ninja itself is bordering on racist. Which I find to be patently ridiculous. The amount of cultural influences inherent in the design of the many Designers mentioned, is either partially or completely unknown to us or the writer. In fact I’d go so far as to say the cultural influences that cause us to do and say the things in our everyday life are far to numerous and extant as a whole to reliably predict at times. The compartmentalization of every developing trend can be exhausting to the viewer and offtimes suffocating to the developer of said trend. Everything is under a brutal microscope nowadays. Sometimes for the very good. Other times for the very opposite. 

[jeddyhsu]

1 hour ago, branespload said:

i at least +rep leslie for attempting to bring light to this topic of asian fetishism and possible appropriation in the context of techwear.

anyway i think there was nuggets of good ideas here and there just not fully developed.

I definitely also believe leslie brought up good points to light. I'll focus on the main point of orientalism in techwear. Let's be honest, it's a problem that asians are not fairly represented in the cyberpunk world (or much of anywhere on the internet/media for that matter).

It was/is the niche of Acronym and techwear in general that allows for asian americans and the far east to have their own slice of that cake; even if in books/movies the whole world revolves around the white hero(es). I don't want to bring up the whole ghost in the shell 2017 ordeal, but as someone posted on reddit, "Unfortunately, and not aggressively nor negatively-speaking, you can't and never will understand why POC speak out about these problems because you're white. This isn't just an outcry about GITS, but Asian American representation. Hollywood has always cast white people as the "norm", and the media now has accepted it as the "basis" as what color of a person should be expected to be seen on screen. This is wrong. We all love GITS, I for one will not be paying to watch Scar-Jo." 

Now this was one point out of many other bad and good points she wrote about. I don't find the term tech-ninja to be racist, and in fact think it's pretty cool (who doesn't want to be a ninja?) All in all, it wasn't a bad article and definitely she had cited her sources which were littered throughout every paragraph, in order to back up and get her opinion across. 

ps. lol @ the lowkey roast of r/techwearclothing

[shinnanju]

16 minutes ago, jeddyhsu said:

I definitely also believe leslie brought up good points to light. I'll focus on the main point of orientalism in techwear. Let's be honest, it's a problem that asians are not fairly represented in the cyberpunk world (or much of anywhere on the internet/media for that matter).

It was/is the niche of Acronym and techwear in general that allows for asian americans and the far east to have their own slice of that cake; even if in books/movies the whole world revolves around the white hero(es). I don't want to bring up the whole ghost in the shell 2017 ordeal, but as someone posted on reddit, "Unfortunately, and not aggressively nor negatively-speaking, you can't and never will understand why POC speak out about these problems because you're white. This isn't just an outcry about GITS, but Asian American representation. Hollywood has always cast white people as the "norm", and the media now has accepted it as the "basis" as what color of a person should be expected to be seen on screen. This is wrong. We all love GITS, I for one will not be paying to watch Scar-Jo." 

Now this was one point out of many other bad and good points she wrote about. I don't find the term tech-ninja to be racist, and in fact think it's pretty cool (who doesn't want to be a ninja?) All in all, it wasn't a bad article and definitely she had cited her sources which were littered throughout every paragraph, in order to back up and get her opinion across. 

ps. lol @ the lowkey roast of r/techwearclothing

Basically everything about asians are cool but,being one? nah too nerdy, yellow peril is still a thing and its hilarious 

[CARLOOA]

I think the techno-orientalism critique was really vapid. That's like me talking about Wu-Tang Clam and only talking about Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) —there's a lot of noise and recounting of history but it's like she was just trying to a hit a word count. I think that the main thrust of the article, that techwear's corruption is a consequence of techno-orientalism fails to consider the power dynamic inherent in these cultural critiques. Shouldn't we consider if, instead, the "other" is the taste-maker/influencer/main benefactor of the "wave," the relative injustice is rectified since it's the "other" benefiting from or controlling the characterization? On the other hand, is silence as to the oriental other in techwear "shuckin' and jivin'" to use an equally loaded concept? I think, if Errolson and co are making hyper-technological orientalist stereotype/archetype their own, it typifies re-appropriation.

I'm with Bernard in that I think there are some really interesting thoughts addressed on, but again, we're missing some cultural touchstones. Couldn't an equally valid explanation of techwear's asian prevalence be the fact that many younger, moneyed, asian males live in high-context now hyper-consumeristic cultures? I guess my biggest criticism of the article is the superficiality of the entire exercise—it's the text equivalent of just spilling legoes on the floor, I'm sure we could make something cool, just really scattered at the moment and hurts when you walk on it.

EDIT:

I think the article's point should have been that brokebois are ruining techwear. Half-kidding... but I've had some time to chew on the concepts presented by the piece and I've come around to the fact she's brought salience to cultural issues inherent in fashion—I mean, I've always thought of Gvasalia's use of slav/soviet youth culture quite peculiar but at the same time informative of his upbringing. I think it'd be different if a fashion conglomerate were reaping the benefits of cultural liaising/appropriating wholly without the participation of someone who identifies with that culture. Sure, Amer Sports owns Arc'Teryx but the head of design is Japanese, Errolson is ethnically chinese, GG is taiwanese, Yohji is Japanese. I think their identities should blunt the techno-orientalist criticism purely by virtue of their identities and participation. Could they do more to change the stereotype? Yeah, but re-purposing the aesthetic to make money seems more subversive and high-brow, right? Does Errolson need to do a oriental peasant ensemble to lampoon the obsession with east-asian imagery? Anyway, those are my disparate thoughts—maybe Grailed will let me write an article.  <-techno-oriental ninja.

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by CARLOOA

[Nebulae]

@CARLOOA you walk on tables?

[CARLOOA]

16 minutes ago, Nebulae said:

@CARLOOA you walk on tables?

Fixed

[AnomalousTautology]

I know I'm a little late to the party here, must have missed this discussion last night.

 @CARLOOA I agree that most of the points Leslie discussed were at the very least undeveloped, and I agree with @branespload that the idea she touched on were ones that need a wider discussion.

There was one major oversight that I think is harder to ignore: the proposition of clothing (techwear) as physical augmentation. While Leslie does touch on this when she references E's quote on how "everyone is already a cyborg" it is used as a justification for Acronym's cyberpunk aesthetic rather than the proposition that clothing can act as a sort of knights armour protecting him from whatever unfavourable situation he may find himself in, which is the actual functional core of Acronym and Arcteryx Veilance (although ACR brands itself like it is also augmenting the wearer for a slightly more violent situation than AV). Its that idea of 'if phones can augment our memory and contact lenses can augment our vision, why can't our clothing augment the way we interact with the current weather conditions?' (not actually quoting anyone in particular).

The misunderstanding of this concept where techwear is thought of as an aesthetic movement is the root of this issue. The image of cyberpunk's pension for augmentation that ACR's clothing exemplifies is combined with a multicultural image of the streets of 2019 Los Angeles (from Blade Runner rather than next year) and Neuromancer's Chia city, Akira's Neo Tokyo, etc. have created an oriental image that smaller companies that don't understand (or don't care about) the proposition of augmentation have built off of because it references the same fiction that ACR does and that seems to satisfy those who also fail to understand this pension for augmentation.

So yeah, brokebois are ruining techwear XD 

 

[Inkinsurgent]

apparently not even the autistic realm of laminates and zippers is safe from the scourge of identity politics.

[drgitlin]

That article was a horrific mess 

[Cornuto]

Do you think Japanese people agonize over ‘culturally appropriating’ American fashion to build....basically their whole apparel industry?

 

Visvim, nothing but an overpriced Levi’s store circa 1970something.

 

WTAPS, overpriced Army surplus right down to the Woodland camo and BUDS logos.

 

And the SUFU ultra-rare Japanese denim threads are every bit as insane as the ACRNM forum. 

 

Great artists steal.

[AnomalousTautology]

@Cornuto you have a point, but the Japanese Repro scene is slightly more political than that. Uncle Bill (William Gibson) wrote multiple novels which describe what Repro is about (namely Pattern Recognition and Zero History). The point Repro culture is trying to make is that what was American workwear in the first half of the 20th century is, despite technological advancements, of higher quality than what most people wear today. That's the point of the black Buzz Rickson's MA-1: that it is every bit as functional as the ones the USAF used in WWII.

[Nebulae]

7 hours ago, AnomalousTautology said:

I know I'm a little late to the party here, must have missed this discussion last night.

 @CARLOOA I agree that most of the points Leslie discussed were at the very least undeveloped, and I agree with @branespload that the idea she touched on were ones that need a wider discussion.

There was one major oversight that I think is harder to ignore: the proposition of clothing (techwear) as physical augmentation. While Leslie does touch on this when she references E's quote on how "everyone is already a cyborg" it is used as a justification for Acronym's cyberpunk aesthetic rather than the proposition that clothing can act as a sort of knights armour protecting him from whatever unfavourable situation he may find himself in, which is the actual functional core of Acronym and Arcteryx Veilance (although ACR brands itself like it is also augmenting the wearer for a slightly more violent situation than AV). Its that idea of 'if phones can augment our memory and contact lenses can augment our vision, why can't our clothing augment the way we interact with the current weather conditions?' (not actually quoting anyone in particular).

The misunderstanding of this concept where techwear is thought of as an aesthetic movement is the root of this issue. The image of cyberpunk's pension for augmentation that ACR's clothing exemplifies is combined with a multicultural image of the streets of 2019 Los Angeles (from Blade Runner rather than next year) and Neuromancer's Chia city, Akira's Neo Tokyo, etc. have created an oriental image that smaller companies that don't understand (or don't care about) the proposition of augmentation have built off of because it references the same fiction that ACR does and that seems to satisfy those who also fail to understand this pension for augmentation.

So yeah, brokebois are ruining techwear XD 

 

Just to address your first paragraph here. The association with augmentation has roots in Posthuman theory and also the concept of the 'cyborg.' The idea is not limited to weather protection, both in theory and in design. It is a common theme amongst many 'techwear' brands. To say weather protection is the 'functional core' of techwear is shortchanging a lot of its foundational ideas.

I think everyone gets the point when Errolson says we are already cyborgs. Our phones and wireless technology compress our experience of time and space, leading to a mental reality that defies physical boundaries. But what I don't think is as easily discernable is the fact that techwear brands sell a less potent fusion between body and technology, bringing to the forefront an idea of clothing as an 'interface' between us and the physical/metaphysical spaces we inhabit. This is especially pertinent in 'non-places,' a term Andrew Bolton cites via Marc Augé in "The Supermodern Wardrobe"--interstitial spaces symptomatic of contemporary life defined by transience and a lack of importance/identity like subways, hotels, malls, to name a few. Acronym's gravity pocket lets users swipe transit cards seamlessly. The back-mounted escape zip on the J41-gt provides a new doffing mechanism and changes the way we inhabit space seated in vehicles. Softs's ghost sweatshirt and SISP use a drop pocket that allows for quicker/better storage and access in crowded places like packed trains, moving crowds, etc. 'Articulation' and movement is also a 'supermodern'-pertaining augmentation as it alters the emotive sensation of a garment--it literally changes how it feels to move, and movement through non-places is one of today's primary concerns. This isn't new stuff. Earlier work by Vexed Generation is all about navigating and mediating contemporary urban nonplaces (Bolton talks at length here more eloquently than I ever could). 

To shift topics, I think much of the recent discussion surrounding the space is overly general. To discuss Acronym, Guerrilla-Group, Veilance, etc. in one grab-bag when it comes to techno-orientalism is incredibly problematic given their cultural/formal references, process, and output are entirely different (How is Veilance even part of this discussion lol). You could go so far as to evaluate piece by piece. The design process and execution are different on each and every one, after all.

[AnomalousTautology]

@Nebulae Thank you for throwing the book at me, I'm a bit out of touch with my posthuman theory. I haven't read The Supermodern Wardrobe but will now.

Yes, I did neglect to mention these other design ques you are right, and you are totally right that the other details in Acronym's work are just as much a feature of "proper" techwear as weatherproofing. It is a similar 'clothing-as-augmentation' idea.

Veilance is only involved because of Leslie's reference to Hugh's responsibility for it.

Honestly, thank you, we need more discussion with actual evidence behind it.

 

[emenel]

18 hours ago, Cornuto said:

Do you think Japanese people agonize over ‘culturally appropriating’ American fashion to build....basically their whole apparel industry?

You may misunderstand the concept of cultural appropriation (regardless of if we believe it's happening within "techwear").

Japanese adaptation of American military/work-wear is not appropriation... however, if a Japanese design design something that uses Korean culture as its base, that would be appropriation. The notion of appropriation lies in power dynamics between cultures. I'm loathe to quote Wikipedia, but it's a good summary --

"Cultural appropriation, often framed as cultural misappropriation, is a concept in sociology dealing with the adoption of the elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture. It is distinguished from equal cultural exchange due to the presence of a colonial element and imbalance of power."

The key is the dynamic between dominant and dominated... A fetishism and use of another culture that has been taken by force, or is often oppressed in ways that prevent it from expressing its own values, while the oppressor uses those same values and aesthetics themselves.

[jeddyhsu]

Let's take a break from showing off our knowledge and how much better y'all could've written that article lol.

Here's something interesting, Oakley's released a techwear-esque capsule that's extremely similar to Shadow Project and ACR. It doesn't look half bad and covers the spectrum from technical shells with many pockets to waterproof roll-top bags and even cargo's and glasses. Take a look for yourself:

 http://www.oakley.com/en/latch-capsule-apparel?icmp=Hero_1_Explore-LatchCapsuleApparel

It reminds me of their japan-release-only "High Function" line they dropped back in 2011. (And I thought E's force-lock design was patent-pending ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

https://www.freshnessmag.com/2011/02/08/oakley-springsummer-2011-high-function-line/

 

[brainerd666]

What’s up with the ridiculously high waist on those chinos? Looks like something a throwaway henchman on a boat in a 60’s era Bond film would be costumed in. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by brainerd666
camel toe sighting

[Inkinsurgent]

i want to punch whoever art directed that campaign