Cone Mills (last US denim manufacturer) is shutting down

[HAZARDkid]

^If you are going to say that you don't find cone appealing because of the way it fades -in a cone thread, you should be ready to expect some negative feedback.

Don't get sensitive over a few negreps and defensive responses that are actually trying to explain something.

Edited November 9, 2017 by HAZARDkid

[Inimitable N!]

i read back through the thread and oddly enough the majority of posts mention LVC or Roy (as far as owning denim from white oak) as do the pics...

this might have to do with folks having issues with what they consider a "short sighted" opinion... and, yes, @dudewuttheheck is entitled to his opinion...

the closing of white oak has made me go back through the range of jeans i own and really look at the diversity of denim from a single factory, my tellasons have been around for nearly a year (huckberry tellason colab) they've been hot washed and dried to get a little shrink out of 'em and my fingertips still wind up blue while wearing 'em! although they're not as "hot" as other pairs i own they're pretty damn fine and slowly they'll develop their own character

if anything this has truly forced a certain kind of reconsideration with a different set of eyes, in the end the true shame is that it's gone. i know ryan (wh ranch) has mentioned he's secured more denim from white oak and it's made me consider purchasing another pair simply so a year or so from now i'll be surprised with another piece of history

what i'm saying, in a rather rambling way, is that it's possible the folks with "lesser opinions" of cone's white mill selvedge simply haven't seen this diversity first hand and consequently, due to that limited view have created their opinions... possible right?

[Cucoo]

With me the easy dismissal of Cone came with both being more smitten with fancier Japanese denim (as in looking and feeling more interesting because of the exaggerated characteristics) and also not having seen worn in Cone first hand. I don't say that I don't like my TFH or Samurai less now but I came to appreciate the more subtle way the "mother of denim" fades as I kept being exposed to it on here.

I also have a pair of 1955 from the Valencia St Era that I bought deadstock years ago and as they faded they definitely became more and more interesting to me. My MF "Cowboy" jacket made from deadstock Cone helped shape my opinion, too. 

My jumping on lvc right now definitely is panic that I will miss the bandwagon once Cone denim gets stupid expensive though 

[Paul T]

I had a long post that I deleted because derailment. Here's my nipper's 302. It could well have been Mildred Bolen who milled these in the late 60s; when they hauled the X-3 looms into the basement she was depressed because she was reduced to doing odd jobs around the plant. How wonderful that she had a 20 year coda doing the job she loved when they hauled them back up onto the cherry-wood main floor.

Pix in the mag spread are by Farhad Samari.

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Paul T

[dudewuttheheck]

1 hour ago, Inimitable N! said:

i read back through the thread and oddly enough the majority of posts mention LVC or Roy (as far as owning denim from white oak) as do the pics...

this might have to do with folks having issues with what they consider a "short sighted" opinion... and, yes, @dudewuttheheck is entitled to his opinion...

the closing of white oak has made me go back through the range of jeans i own and really look at the diversity of denim from a single factory, my tellasons have been around for nearly a year (huckberry tellason colab) they've been hot washed and dried to get a little shrink out of 'em and my fingertips still wind up blue while wearing 'em! although they're not as "hot" as other pairs i own they're pretty damn fine and slowly they'll develop their own character

if anything this has truly forced a certain kind of reconsideration with a different set of eyes, in the end the true shame is that it's gone. i know ryan (wh ranch) has mentioned he's secured more denim from white oak and it's made me consider purchasing another pair simply so a year or so from now i'll be surprised with another piece of history

what i'm saying, in a rather rambling way, is that it's possible the folks with "lesser opinions" of cone's white mill selvedge simply haven't seen this diversity first hand and consequently, due to that limited view have created their opinions... possible right?

I can't argue with that! However, I have experienced faded Cone denim first hand...

 

Either way, I'm not trying to convince anyone of my opinion. I think the problem is that some people think there is a right and wrong answer to this when there is not. It's all just opinion. People say far worse about Oni and everyone is only too ready to agree.

Of course I'm not surprised by this response, but I was hoping that more would be able to view my opinion as my own well-informed opinion and not an attempt to piss in the coffin. 

I also think some are getting too wrapped up on the fact that I don't love the denim. The whole reason I even made that comment was because of the possibility of new US brands weaving denim such as Huston. I believe that that is quite relevant here. There is still chance for denim to be made in the US which is very exciting. It's not often that we hear about new denim mills and based on the shirt fabrics I've seen from Huston, I believe they have a chance to weave some denim that I would really love (and possibly even prefer to Cone.) 

[Paul T]

Also in the context of this thread, it might be interesting to look at one of Cone's great last collaborations with Levi's.

This all came when Cone pulled a loom out of reception where it was on display. It was one of the oldest Drapers, I think the Model E. And it still carried the last rolls of fabric that was being loomed just before they shot down selvage production. Seeing it, the LVC guys said "Let's do a 78 repro." Then they realised it was left-hand twill - maybe made for Lee. Levi's never used a left-hand twill; they concluded they could only have produced one in a mirror-image universe. So they made the mirror-image 1978 501.

This is a pair made using the actual deadstock fabric. The bulk of the run used a repro 78 l-h twill.

These are lovely, historic jeans and a great reminder that Cone didn't just make the fabric for Levi's, they made it for Lee, JC Penney and countless more brands.

[Paul T]

This thread inspires some SuFu nostalgia.

This is a Cone jacket that we think dates from the late 40s or early 50s (there's an almost identical one in the company's archive). I found it on Brick Lane for £25. My son wore it for a year or two; then we sent it on to a great SuFu contributor, Lilldavid. I can't find the pic of his lovely nipper but here's the jacket. He was going to pass it on to another SuFu child. I hope it's still circulating around the SuperFuture universe somewhere, 70 years after that fabric rolled off the loom!

On 6/13/2009 at 4:15 PM, lilldavid said:

THANK YOU VERY MUCH PAUL!!!!

I'll post fit pictures in a year

 

[Maynard Friedman]

Great stuff Paul. Does Cone still produce projectile loom denim in the US or is that all milled abroad? Basically, is White Oak the last Cone presence in the States or do they produce non-selvedge denim at other mills?

[Paul T]

I am pretty sure that is it. They had projectile looms at White Oak, but I guess they replaced that with off-shore production - so it was only the shuttle looms that were left, as those were the only fabrics they could get decent prices for.

We didn't talk about it, but ACG was the other big US mill using projectile looms. They were a big supplier to Levi's - but closed in 2015. They were comparatively young, I think the mill opened in the 1970s.

Of course, the loss of Cone and everyone else will have knock-on effects for farmers. Cotton is still a big crop in the South.

https://www.pcca.com/article/acg-denim-mill-and-levi-strauss-co/

http://lubbockonline.com/local-news/2015-05-17/leaving-mill-displaced-american-cotton-growers-workers-find-new-lives#.Vi_tnn6-lBc

Edited November 9, 2017 by Paul T

[Inimitable N!]

48 minutes ago, dudewuttheheck said:

I can't argue with that! However, I have experienced faded Cone denim first hand...

that was only part of the point... ultimately, i really thought i had too and am sorta realizing it deserved another look...

and although i sorta singled you out because you were takin' flack in the bigger picture my comments aren't necessarily aimed squarely in your direction. there are a load of folks unnecessarily "bagging" cone right now and i think there's much more grey area to the discussion...

ultimately my 2 cents isn't going to change anyone's opinion nor is it an attempt to. although i grew up as a STF 501 kid (yes, back in the selvedge 70's) and i eventually parted ways with levi's, i'm just kinda realizing that my general association with cone has always been via levi's. now i see i'm still somewhat surrounded by their denim and didn't really appreciate it as something diverse... well, until now.

btw, i can't say how much i appreciate the nostalgia, the personal histories, and the candor 

 

[EdwardBear]

I think some appreciation and respect of opinion is required here - the fact that we, as a global denim tribe care enough to view, comment and rep on this forum (and specific thread) with different opinions is to be celebrated and we should appreciate that.

It's a tragedy that Cone is closing which I'm sure we all agree, and it's easy to either celebrate and dismiss the different Japanese denims, again with good points on both sides (e.g. Oni/PBJ versus Fullcount and Warehouse in terms of cut/texture) and therefore fall into the 'Cone isn't as good as the Japanese versions' type brawls.  

Just because it's a Cone thread about closing down doesn't mean someone can't voice a negative opinion (just as is the case in other threads!) about their experience, just as it shouldn't be a gushing obituary from those who didn't purchase but now realise what is about to be extinct (just like when all the great comments come out after a forgotten celebrity dies, too late!).

Long message short- we are all one tribe, opinions are to be encouraged because it shows we all care about denim, and now, the repercussions. 

[itsbenhere]

7 hours ago, HAZARDkid said:

^If you are going to say that you don't find cone appealing because of the way it fades -in a cone thread, you should be ready to expect some negative feedback.

Don't get sensitive over a few negreps and defensive responses that are actually trying to explain something.

Negative feedback of "I disagree and I prefer cone to the Japanese denims" is a different kind of negative feedback than "you're pissing on cone's memory!" imo. I wouldn't have said anything if it was the former 

completely agreed EB

[JDelage]

That. Nothing I've read here has been disrespectful to Cone. Let's move on.

[hudsonjames]

Ordered one of these today, glad to get a piece of the cone denim before it's too late! I'm excited to see how it ages compared to my Japanese denim jeans.

[dudewuttheheck]

44 minutes ago, hudsonjames said:

Ordered one of these today, glad to get a piece of the cone denim before it's too late! I'm excited to see how it ages compared to my Japanese denim jeans.

Is that a Pointer coat?

[erk]

I never really found the pointer coat...appealing.

has a different ring than:

the pointer coat is nice but it’s not really for me. 

Theres never been a shortage of cone baggers. Just like a lot of things people cannot appreciate the subtlety or the amount of time it takes to fade a pair.

if duders snarkiness was unintentional then whatever. I doubt it. 

[dudewuttheheck]

43 minutes ago, erk said:

I never really found the pointer coat...appealing.

has a different ring than:

the pointer coat is nice but it’s not really for me. 

Theres never been a shortage of cone baggers. Just like a lot of things people cannot appreciate the subtlety or the amount of time it takes to fade a pair.

if duders snarkiness was unintentional then whatever. I doubt it. 

I see you are still operating under the impression that there is a correct opinion on Cone.

I have seen Cone faded first hand and have seen all the subtlety that your insults lack. I still don't love it. I never said that people shouldn't love it or that it was not worthy of being a favorite mill of many. I only said it wasn't interesting to me. How is that even an insult? That does not imply that it is of inferior quality in any way. If you find it interesting? Fantastic! That's awesome. I also don't find Oni or PBJ interesting. Again, that does not mean I think it's bad denim. Also, I do own Cone products and enjoy them. It's not as though I'm against the company or something. 

I'm glad you like it so much. If we all loved the same brand and same type of denim then we'd all be obsessed with The Flat Head one year, then PBJ or Iron Heart, and then Warehouse at the same time. Oh, wait...

 

The ironic part is that if my comment was ignored, this thread would be spending more time actually celebrating Cone.

Edited November 10, 2017 by dudewuttheheck

[itsbenhere]

So it’s snarky for dude here to say that he doesn’t find cone appealing but not for you to say that he can’t “appreciate the subtlety” of fading a pair? 

Righttttt.....

[erk]

This is all about tone and has nothing to do with your opinion. If you don’t get what I’m talking about now, you never will. 

@itsbenhere touché 

[HAZARDkid]

56 minutes ago, dudewuttheheck said:

 

 

31 minutes ago, itsbenhere said:

 

Nothing wrong with your opinions, but you should just leave it at that and move on.

We get it, you prefer other brands - okay - go post in their threads. You guys are literally recycling the same post "i don't hate it, i just don't prefer it" "aren't we entitled to our own opinion".  

This is basically a cone appreciation thread - people are going to defend cone regardless. You guys are wasting your own time making this more of a freedom of speech thing than about denim which should be discussed somewhere else. 

[itsbenhere]

I agree and I was happy to move on after EB’s post, but ultimately this debate started after some people chose to ascribe bad intent to dude for an innocuous comment and they had as much a role in the derailing of this thread as he and I did.

[Inimitable N!]

2 hours ago, dudewuttheheck said:

The ironic part is that if my comment was ignored, this thread would be spending more time actually celebrating Cone.

...heck if it was half ignored, oh wait... doh!

i for one would dig seeing more of the non-levi's cone selvedge and also wonder if that absence is simply due to newer brands using it not really designing anything out of the ordinary?

also wondering if the vintage lee heavyweight selvedge came from cone? i used to see loads of deadstock lee double front "logger" jeans around my old neighborhood in chicago, should have nabbed a pair when i had the chance... they'd be a little hot here in florida though

[hudsonjames]

15 hours ago, dudewuttheheck said:

Is that a Pointer coat?

It is indeed! It looks a bit frumpy on the model for sure, but I'm holding out hope that it will just look better once I break it in. I'm thinking about sewing those collars down if they look too big in person as well.

[MileHighEvertonian]

12 hours ago, Inimitable N! said:

i for one would dig seeing more of the non-levi's cone selvedge and also wonder if that absence is simply due to newer brands using it not really designing anything out of the ordinary?

There's plenty to look at from Leftfield, Tellason, Railcar, etc., but I think there's been a wane in popularity on sufu for those brands as they've gone after the instagram crowd. Apart from Roy-stuff, the Leftfield indigo duck chino contest was likely the high-water mark for cone-related sufu excitement by these brands. I never bought Tellason's, which I believe have a range of proprietary cone fabrics, because of their weird yoke/waistband design. I moved away from the other two because even when they're offering compelling fabrics (there was a really cool green heathered weft cone LF/Christian had a number of years ago) their fuller fits proved too slim for my liking.

[Paul T]

I realise one fab Cone product I own, which never got any love here as it's not a pair of pants.

WHen I developed the Roy contest fabric with Ralph I begged some fabric off them: the indigo duck. Like quite a few Cone fabrics, once they introduced it, Japanese mills followed up with something similar (the current TCB 20s have belt loops from a similar Japanese fabric). It's a real sleeper fabric, and was never used for much apart from some lovely Made & Crafted chinos. THey had to resin-coat them, I heard, as it crocks so much.  I still have a couple of metres which I treasure so much that I'm not sure what I'll ever use it for.

But I did get this great kit bag made by an English saddler, Matt Fothergill, who used to have a shop off Columbia Road.
 

[mikecch]

I started with Japanese jeans so for quite some time I was dismissive of Cone fabrics. 

The one-off denim and duck made for the Roy and Left Field contests changed my mind though, and I do agree that those fabrics aged in a way which was natural, flavourful and interesting at various stages of wear. 

On the flip side, I do also find a lot of the stock Cone denims that all the kickstarter brands had been using to be somewhat underwhelming. I'm a huge texture freak before any consideration of vintage authenticity or indigo fading though. 

Sad to see Cone go, hopefully smaller and more versatile operations will take over the mantle. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by mikecch

[mlwdp]

Cone made my city where it is today.

Local wise, I haven't heard anything about the workers being offered employment placement services.  Cone has put food on people's tables here so it's tough to see this happening.

Edited November 11, 2017 by mlwdp

[hudsonjames]

3 hours ago, mikecch said:

Sad to see Cone go, hopefully smaller and more versatile operations will take over the mantle

This news made me think a lot about what kind of modern denim industry would be possible in the U.S.? Could small-batch denim makers who purchased some of these old looms actually make a living selling to U.S. jeans companies?

[TrueLoomTextiles]

1 hour ago, hudsonjames said:

This news made me think a lot about what kind of modern denim industry would be possible in the U.S.? Could small-batch denim makers who purchased some of these old looms actually make a living selling to U.S. jeans companies?

It seems unlikely at the moment that the shuttle looms from Cone will be sold and if they are sold it will most likely be to an entity that does not pose a threat or is not a competitor to Cone (would have to be a non-denim entity). True Loom Textiles and Huston Textile Co are bringing back an old school approach to the textile industry using shuttle looms. Anything is possible for a small scale denim industry in the U.S. if the consumer base is receptive and supportive. 

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

just another fine example how beautifully cone denim wears in, if you are patient.

this is 1955 501xx from around 5-10 years ago that is recently up sale at ebay(not my pair)

a