Shoes that look better with age...

[fre-co]

Those viberg HH engineers are beautiful. They could actually be my size although Viberg sizing has always confused me. Any advice what I need being a 9.5E in Whites?

 

Edit: also, to add some direct boot content, the guy who runs EastWest Apparel is selling some Vibergs for good prices over at Ironheart, really wish my feet were smaller... http://www.ironheart.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6493.new#new

[cander49]

Danners (mine and my girlfriend's) before Kilimanjaro:

 

Right after coming back from the summit to Barafu camp:

 

 

After a cleaning back at home:

 

 

If you want to see photos from how they got so beat up in just 6 days, check the post I'm about to make in the HWDC2 thread!

Edited September 1, 2014 by cander49

[bradl]

Aho what last do you have on your whites? Want to steer clear of using my insoles, and love to hear that it has good arch supports on them.

All this pictures have gotten me excited, will be ordering a pair next weekend, but for work. Wondering what leather would ve good to use, need something durable and that will break down and still look nice.

[aho]

Bradl, the plain toes and LTT's are both on the standard Smoke Jumper last. My Farmer Ranchers are on Semi-Dress although to be honest the difference is minute...

 

Depending on what sort of job you have, there are a few standard options. The black and brown smooth leathers are the toughest (my plain toe's are black smooth) and are the leathers used for actual Smoke Jumper boots. However, if you want something dressier that will wear tough but also polish well, go with the Black or Brown Dress leathers (often seen on Semi-Dress boots). There are a few more exotic options as well (from roughout and chromexcel to bull hide and calf; horsehide only on Semi-Dress). Either way, I definitely recommend going through Bakers, talk to Kyle and you can't go wrong.

[bradl]

Yeah I will be calling kyle, but just waiting for my tracings to arrive before I get in contact.

I work reno, so boots get beat up pretty easily, but I like the sounds of the black smooth. Thanks aho

[aho]

^Black smooth will do you well in that case! Soft toe with plain toe are good if you want something more "athletic" or if you do a lot of bending/kneeling in my opinion.

[Aries]

Those viberg HH engineers are beautiful. They could actually be my size although Viberg sizing has always confused me. Any advice what I need being a 9.5E in Whites?

 

As ever fre-co, disclaimer that all feet are different etc. etc., but I'll list a few comparisons for you.

 

I have different sized feet - in White's (SD) I'm 11C left, 10.5C right.

 

In Viberg 2030s, I'm 10.5/10; I could perhaps even size up to an 11/10.5 like my whites, but they fit fine regardless. I can fit into a straight 10 all round in the 110 last; I have narrow feet so need an insole on these. 

 

So, for your wider feet, sizing down a half should be absolutely fine, if they're on the 110 last. On the 2030 you should still be good to go, but bare in mind it is a narrower last (though a touch longer too).

 

Hope that helps.

 

edit: they're on the 2005 last, which is wider than the 2030, I think you're good to go with these mate!

Edited September 2, 2014 by Aries

[Manok]

Hender Scheme

[fre-co]

As ever fre-co, disclaimer that all feet are different etc. etc., but I'll list a few comparisons for you.

 

I have different sized feet - in White's (SD) I'm 11C left, 10.5C right.

 

In Viberg 2030s, I'm 10.5/10; I could perhaps even size up to an 11/10.5 like my whites, but they fit fine regardless. I can fit into a straight 10 all round in the 110 last; I have narrow feet so need an insole on these. 

 

So, for your wider feet, sizing down a half should be absolutely fine, if they're on the 110 last. On the 2030 you should still be good to go, but bare in mind it is a narrower last (though a touch longer too).

 

Hope that helps.

 

edit: they're on the 2005 last, which is wider than the 2030, I think you're good to go with these mate!

Thanks man. Might sign up on oh forum to discuss it.

[garden gnomes in space]

Aries, really depends on what you're looking for and preference...I'd say feel wise, White's feel like an old school pair of boots that may not be the cleanest but feel how work boots should; rugged and durable. Wesco's are definitely cleaner construction wise but feel "newer" than the "old world" feel you get with White's. So overall construction; Wesco all the way (talk about quality control), but for personal preference I'm a White's guy mainly due to the fit and feel (arch ease is incomparable for me).

well said.  Even in the pics you posted, you can tell Wesco's on the next level.  Stitching is way cleaner.  I have seen some garbage stitching on White's lately.  Part of me doesnt care, as the functionality isnt compromised.  But the other part of me is irritated that they would allow that kind of a product past the QC.  I dont think that they meant to (or thought they would) get this popular with the denim/clothing nerds who pour over the build quality and consistency with an otaku mentality

Edited September 2, 2014 by garden gnomes in space

[Aries]

No worries fre-co, if you buy 'em we want pics .

 

 

build quality and consistency with an otaku mentality

 

Ha, perfect.

[tmadd]

well said.  Even in the pics you posted, you can tell Wesco's on the next level.  Stitching is way cleaner.  I have seen some garbage stitching on White's lately.  Part of me doesnt care, as the functionality isnt compromised.  But the other part of me is irritated that they would allow that kind of a product past the QC.  I dont think that they meant to (or thought they would) get this popular with the denim/clothing nerds who pour over the build quality and consistency with an otaku mentality

 

Clean stitching is clean stitching though.  That's not just a product of quality control, but of the sewing machine operators, and potentially the sewing machines themselves.  While it's not an out and out indictment of the quality of White's craftsmanship, it does mean that faults and failures should be more likely to be expected from Whites than Wescos.  That is a detail that is indicative of production systems that are in place in either factory.  

[Megatron1505]

My Bounty Hunters have a bit of dodgy stitching on them, I took the wabi wabi thought process of them but must admit to seeing a lot more of it on peoples boots in the last 12 months than ever before, and I'm a huge fan of Whites. In contrast I recently saw a huge amount of samples from Wesco and they were all superb, to the point where I've actually ordered a custom pair.

[aho]

My view on it is and always has been, if it doesn't affect the integrity/durability of the boots then I don't care; I'm buying them for the fit, rebuild-ability and years of use; not to admire them on a shelf (although you wouldn't know it given all the pictures I post of them hah). They're boots after all...

[Megatron1505]

Yeh, but for $400 I don't expect elementary errors. Whether it effects durability or not it looks like shit and shouldn't for the price, and in the market Whites are pitching.

[bradl]

So is this recent decline happening because new people are taking seats from the people retiring or QC just crapping the bed?

[themexican]

in manufacturing you have 3 real objectives, speed, value, and quality. We like to tell our customers choose 2. If we can hit all 3 it's a win for everyone but real world problems make this a rarity. we can see this hold true with our footwear brands where speed and value come at the slight expensive of quality or speed and quality come at the expense of value etc. 

[garden gnomes in space]

Yeh, but for $400 I don't expect elementary errors. Whether it effects durability or not it looks like shit and shouldn't for the price, and in the market Whites are pitching.

This.  I mean, Im not losing sleep over it, but once you get into a certain price point, things are expected.  Thats why Im bummed about t he fake welts on my oak Street boot makers trail shoes.  Fucking garbage man

[Megatron1505]

Honestly, I think with Whites that much of it can be attributed to how busy they are, with fire season being the obvious capacity concern. I have owned 8 pairs of Whites/ Hathorn over the years and only had a bit of dodgy workmanship on one pair, it's not even that bad to be honest but I have seen much worse on other peoples boots from Whites.

 

When you look at the difference in price point between Whites and their peers at Viberg and Wesco it is quite difficult to argue that at the top end of the boot game Whites clearly do offer that important and intangible quality of value. They have a zillion custom options and they make (in my opinion) the most comfortable work boot there is, in the SD.

 

I really don't want to come off as bitching about White's, as I've been a fan for so long, and still am. But I am not a blind fan and I will say that other brands have slightly higher quality, it's a personal decision whether you can justify the price difference.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Megatron1505

[aho]

^All valid points...At the end of the day it's up to the consumer to make a choice and justify whether or not what they're getting is worth the price. For me, it's most certainly worth it and often enough you can even find a good deal (ebay). Sometimes though, I wonder how inflated the quality issues really are since the only examples we've seen are within our small internet bubble. Sure, they can get busy with fire season, the older guys are retiring, customer base is expanding, etc. but so far so good with all I've owned and pricing for custom builds still comes out cheaper than Wesco. For example, my latest pair was ordered at the end of fire season and I got them within two weeks, no issues with construction for $409 USD shipped.

 

Eventually I intend to invest in a pair of Nick's who are said to have overtaken White's in construction/quality in the recent years; wait time will be ridiculous but there are definitely options out there for any discerning consumer. And heck, for an extra $100 or so, you can even find smaller guys doing true custom made boots molded to your foot (Adam's boots, etc.). To me, White's are "customizable" but they're still only working within their standard sizing/lasts, and not true "custom". A higher tier than Red Wing's or Wolverine's hands down for sure, and worth the $400+ in my opinion but there are even higher rungs on the ladder.

 

Off topic, but has anyone tried Drew's boots yet? Also wondering what's up with Baker's who seem to be branding their own boots now?

[edmond]

This. I mean, Im not losing sleep over it, but once you get into a certain price point, things are expected. Thats why Im bummed about t he fake welts on my oak Street boot makers trail shoes. Fucking garbage man

whoa fake welts???? pics pls thise are not cheap by any standards

[garden gnomes in space]

whoa fake welts???? pics pls thise are not cheap by any standards

I posted a pic on page 76 of the IH forum Oakstreet thread.  

[edmond]

ok

[garden gnomes in space]

here.  scroll to the bottom: http://www.ironheart.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1106.1125

i dont have the pic hosted anywhere anymore, so I cant post it here

Edited September 3, 2014 by garden gnomes in space

[aho]

^That's disappointing...I haven't been following that thread but that's just not right...As far as dressier boots, I've always preferred more traditional offerings like Alden (can't afford Viberg ) and never really got the design of the OSB's personally. Maybe too modern of an interpretation for me? Living in Chicago I get to handle their lineup on the regular; their roots and intentions may have started in the right place but hopefully they pick their game back up because all of the examples shown are no bueno. I do like their non-boot options, but seeing things like that makes me wary. To me, there's nothing worse than proclaiming quality/"heritage" and then cutting corners on the backend. Not saying that's what's happening with OSB and hopefully they'll continue to prove us otherwise!

[Sugar Mountain]

Aho, you would of course have been able to afford Viberg if you'd not bought four pairs of Whites/Wesco over the past year! 

[Aries]

Holy hell Gnome, that's a shocker, and to me it's OSB being disingenuous about their product: whilst they write 'goodyear welt' on certain product descriptions, they simply omit that sentence for others, surely leaving all but the most pedantic buyers with the impression that goodyear welting is standard.

[aho]

^Sugar Mountain, blame it on the White's! Took a chance on my first pair and have been hooked ever since. I will say this though, anytime I'm not wearing White's, I know I'm not wearing a pair of White's...Nothing else quite fits as well on my wonky feet as I'm very flat footed and the arch ease just works. Don't mean to gush, I really do stand behind them as they've been a revelation for me!

 

Like I said though, I really do want to try a pair of Nick's and Drew's. Mostly to find out if their arch designs also work for me, but also want to try Drew's because of the price and apparently no one has taken the jump on these forums. Seeing what information I can glean from Kyle at Bakers!

[garden gnomes in space]

well, to be fair im not sure they claim those to actually be goodyear welted.  I could be wrong.  Its straight up bullshit though, trust me.  A fake welt glued?  GTFO!! The shoes are very comfortable though.  They also did a shitty job of fixing them (see additional pic in that thread).  At the end of the day, there are too many other brands that do a better job and offer a better product for me to ever consider their product again.  Its unfortunate, but Im starting to feel that OSB rode the heritage wave like many other lesser outfits.

 

edit** sorry I misread.  Yes Aries, I agree its disingenuous for them to just leave it out of a description.   Thats a type of deception aimed at those who dont pay attention to the ultra fine details.  Im assuming there are many who are happy as a clam with their OSB's, thinking they are welted like the big boys.  Think again...

Edited September 3, 2014 by garden gnomes in space

[Aries]

Good lord the 'repair' is awful! I'll not be ordering from OSB any time soon.

 

Got a pair of Lone Wolfs on the way and a pair of custom White's, I'll be sure to post up when they arrive.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Aries